MaidSafe IPO on Mastercoin

[luckybit]

How did they 'sell out'.... they price fixed and put a limit on sales???   Economic insanity!

For the record someone on this thread warned about the possibility of price fixing. I don't think that part was the problem. The problem is they set some ridiculous cap on sales which allowed the sale to sell out in a matter of hours.

The price of Mastercoins seems to have gone up because people intended to use them for this crowd sale. Now people are stuck with Mastercoins and if something isn't done about it they will probably dump them in mass. Also Mastercoin holders have to worry about Maidsafe themselves dumping the Mastercoins.

It is now apparent that the Maidsafe team doesn't understand the cryptospace or economics. There may have been ways to prevent or rectify, but how will they do that without pissing thousands of people off?

I think all sides had good intentions here and the technology is incredibly important. I just think they should have structured their sale to not have a cap and scale up with the level of investment.

I hope team Ethereum learns from this event.

[liondani]

Ouch, I see a big problem here.

"I wish I heard about this project earlier, maybe it would struck my
mind to warn you about this. If you would have paid attention to
cryptocurrency scene, you might have envisioned this scenario.

Currently  92535 MSC are donated, as you can see on
http://www.mymastercoins.com/ (just enter the
address 1ARjWDkZ7kT9fwjPrjcQyvbXDkEySzKHwu at the bottom of the page
to see the balance).

Current market price is 0.17 BTC as you can see on
https://masterxchange.com/ and clearly you can see the on the right
graph that almost no one wants to buy mastercoins. There is huge ask
instead.

0.17*17000=2890

Here's what will happen:

MaidSAFE team will want to exchange MSC for cash in order to fund the
project, therefore will try to sell 15% of all MSC in existence. This
will drive the price to nearly zero, because the volume of such
marginal altcoin is very small, and very few people will want to buy
it. People who are holding MSC are aware that happening and already
started to preemptively sell their MSC.

The biggest problem is that you guarantee to give 3400 SAFE for each
MSC, which might have been tru when the funding started. But will be
way off the real price when it finishes. You should have said that
you will give amount of SAFE respectively to current MSC price.

Now people who hold MSC saw a great opportunity to finally get rid of
their niche altcoin with low volume, for something that actually is
pretty great.

I am very sorry that this is happening, and I hope that the amount of
money you will collect from BTC will at least partially offset what
is happening.

Alternatively you might change your policy and instead of rewarding
3400 SAFE for each MSC you can give amount of SAFE proportional to
current MSC price. This will piss off greatly the MSC early adopters,
who currently hold a majority of MaidSAFE issued currency. This may
be only four to six people, but we don't know how powerful they are.
And what their wrath might be.


ouch before I fnished this email the price dropped to 0.09, therefore
currently:

0.09*17000=1530

1530/3400 = 0.45

you are currently selling your high valued SAFE coins at below half their intended price. This drives more people to convert their bitcoins into MSC and buy SAFE using MSC. I am afraid that this feedback loop will have even worse side effect on MaidSAFE.

Maybe the best would be to return all coins to their respective
sender addresses (both BTC and MSC).

Post a big apology for not knowing how cryptocurrency scene works,
and restart this process in next week.

best regards"
--
Janek Kozicki           

[bytemaster]

How did they 'sell out'.... they price fixed and put a limit on sales???   Economic insanity!

[bytemaster]

This stuff is hard for everyone and we are all learning lessons the hard way.   

We all have different lessons to learn...  adapting is key.   

We learned that giving away our 'IPO' via mining was a terrible idea.  We learned mining itself was a bad idea.   Since then we learned that AGS was slightly better than the original master coin fund raiser, but liquidity is vastly preferred. 

Changing strategies as we go is perhaps looked down upon, but is ultimately necessary to recover from mistakes.  Every project out there has made mistakes and we are all learning.

The maidsafe guys are well intentioned and admit the economic ignorance.   We will probably have to work with them to bailout their IPO and I have some ideas on that front.     

[liondani]

Anybody knows what is happening? Why maidsafe don't list the mastercoin address  1ARjWDkZ7kT9fwjPrjcQyvbXDkEySzKHwu anymore and continue to list only  the bitcoin address  1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E  for fundraising?  Have they problems with the particular address due to traffic or something like that or could it be something "bigger" than that ?


PS until now (2 hours) they received about $1.200.000 only from bitcoins*
I suppose they have get more from mastercoins due the best deal for fundraisers...

PS2 After they taked the mastercoin address out MSC price has dropped from 0.17 btc to 0.09 btc !!!

* https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=0&filter=0

The crowd sale is sold out. It appears that a few guys from Mastercoin bought all the Safecoins.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/maidsafe-development/9QTj0d2pGPo

If confirmed, then Safecoin must be forked.

What does it practical mean?

[luckybit]

Anybody knows what is happening? Why maidsafe don't list the mastercoin address  1ARjWDkZ7kT9fwjPrjcQyvbXDkEySzKHwu anymore and continue to list only  the bitcoin address  1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E  for fundraising?  Have they problems with the particular address due to traffic or something like that or could it be something "bigger" than that ?


PS until now (2 hours) they received about $1.200.000 only from bitcoins*
I suppose they have get more from mastercoins due the best deal for fundraisers...

PS2 After they taked the mastercoin address out MSC price has dropped from 0.17 btc to 0.09 btc !!!

* https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=0&filter=0

The crowd sale is sold out. It appears that a few guys from Mastercoin bought all the Safecoins.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/maidsafe-development/9QTj0d2pGPo

If confirmed, then Safecoin must be forked.

[BldSwtTrs]

MaidSafe guys indeed suck at economics.

They hide the MSC address because they received 4/5 of the founds in MSC whereas they expected MSC funding to be marginal.

They are learning Gresham Law the hard way.

*DON'T FIXE PRICES*

[liondani]

from  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.140

What happened to the mastercoin ipo address? why is it removed from the homepage?

I remember reading that they were expecting 70% ++ of the coins to be coming from BTC. But instead it looks like it was the other way around and everyone was cashing in on their MSC instead.

This is absurd. I bought mastercoins only to convert them to safecoins and now I am at a loss (like 50%) only because I am 3 hours late.
They should have done their calculations before, not changing the rule of the game while the IPO is going.

I feel scammed.
It's like a sort of pump and dump on mastercoin prices.

If not scam, it's too silly for a company who have such great plans.

The same here.

Allow me to add to the confusion and fuckeduppery.

I sent some Bitcoins to this party.  Are people who sent a coin of significantly less value going to receive significantly more of these magiccoins than me?

It seems so.

To make things worse, now that the MSC adress has been removed from the safecoin site the MSC dump has started following the last few days pump. Gotta say this was a very bad way of doing fund-raising, definitely makes the Mastercoin foundation look very bad in my eyes.. Not sure what to think of the Maidsafe guys, were they "in on it" or just duped?

from  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.140

[liondani]

Anybody knows what is happening? Why maidsafe don't list the mastercoin address  1ARjWDkZ7kT9fwjPrjcQyvbXDkEySzKHwu anymore and continue to list only  the bitcoin address  1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E  for fundraising?  Have they problems with the particular address due to traffic or something like that or could it be something "bigger" than that ?


PS until now (2 hours) they received about $1.200.000 only from bitcoins*
I suppose they have get more from mastercoins due the best deal for fundraisers...

PS2 After they taked the mastercoin address out MSC price has dropped from 0.17 btc to 0.09 btc !!!

* https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E?offset=0&filter=0

[clout]

Its pretty apparent what they need to do to correct this although I don't know if they eventually will. If they don't generate more safecoin through por mining and instead charge a fee for usage in safecoin and pay the miners (or farmers) either a portion or all of the fee, then the price of safecoin is sure to appreciate and the market can easily find a price for the service provided.

[smiley35]

...
The economic model is confusing for sure, but the system itself is incredible

Hopefully whoever fixes the economic model will give the original developers a stake in the new genesis block.  Ideally whoever fixes it should do so working with them, but I'm sure it will get done eventually either way.

Don't do it like that. Simply snapshot it so everyone who donated to the original Maidsafe in the crowdfunding period would get Maidshares later with improved economic potential.

+5. We need to stay classy. 

[luckybit]

...
The economic model is confusing for sure, but the system itself is incredible

Hopefully whoever fixes the economic model will give the original developers a stake in the new genesis block.  Ideally whoever fixes it should do so working with them, but I'm sure it will get done eventually either way.

Don't do it like that. Simply snapshot it so everyone who donated to the original Maidsafe in the crowdfunding period would get Maidshares later with improved economic potential.

[smiley35]

If I wanted to mine do I have to wait until later this year when the network launches? Maybe a stupid question but I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.

[bitmeat]

They are doing proof of burn are they not? If so, nobody is going to be holding "useless" MSC since it would be destroyed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Troglodactyl]

...
The economic model is confusing for sure, but the system itself is incredible

Hopefully whoever fixes the economic model will give the original developers a stake in the new genesis block.  Ideally whoever fixes it should do so working with them, but I'm sure it will get done eventually either way.