Author Topic: What is BitShares PTS (proto-shares)?  (Read 46420 times)

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Offline phoenix

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2013, 09:45:27 pm »
Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.

The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline danielauhlig

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2013, 11:49:55 pm »
Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.

The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw


Thank you very helpful link will bookmark this. Now again what benefit do I have to now send my newly purchased  PTS to the angel wallet?

Offline phoenix

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2013, 12:05:01 am »
Are you saying i should send my PTS share to the address given as an investement into angel shares? I did this to the angelwallet address using BTC I would be interested in sending some of my PTS to the other wallet given however where is the reference or (receipt) of this having occured . How do I have proof that I have sent them other than in my wallet itself.

The blockchain functions as a public receipt system. If you want to see all the donations that have been sent to the PTS address, here's a link: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw


Thank you very helpful link will bookmark this. Now again what benefit do I have to now send my newly purchased  PTS to the angel wallet?

The address that you send your PTS from will have angel shares. These can't be traded, but they will still give you shares in future DACs. There will be 5000 AGS issued to the people who donate PTS each day. The first day is everything between now and the end of January 1, 2014 (GMT). You receive a share of these 5000 AGS by donating, your share is equal to the % of total funds for the day that you donated. For example, if you donate 150 out of 900 PTS, you would receive 16.666% of the angel shares created that day, which is 833.33333333 angel shares, out of 5000. Angel Shares will be honored with at least 10% of the total currency in all invictus sponsored DACs, so you can greatly increase your stake by donating. The cost is that angel shares can't be traded, so you have to be in for the long haul
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline alatvian

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2013, 03:55:16 am »
Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380".  Is a sucker born every minute?

Offline danielauhlig

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2013, 05:08:43 am »
Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380".  Is a sucker born every minute?

Is this your donation , are you the sucker?

Offline doesntmatter

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2013, 10:42:28 am »
how can any form of "property" be non transferable...
whats to stop a person from taking the money (pts whatever) and just never starting anything after that... pledge money for the future of WHAT?  and just cause there's a record means nothing...

if fact, shouldn't PTS holders be entitled to 10% OF THOSE ANGELSHARES PER YOUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT!!!
IS THIS NOT A DAC I CRY?!?!?!?
WHAT WILL YOU TRY NEXT???

do i need to go quote you from your posts? pts entitle you to...
PsZtcn3NRs9P3ZqKdxah1uNLZ1QSuecbdd

Offline phoenix

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2013, 01:49:21 pm »
how can any form of "property" be non transferable...
whats to stop a person from taking the money (pts whatever) and just never starting anything after that... pledge money for the future of WHAT?  and just cause there's a record means nothing...

if fact, shouldn't PTS holders be entitled to 10% OF THOSE ANGELSHARES PER YOUR ORIGINAL AGREEMENT!!!
IS THIS NOT A DAC I CRY?!?!?!?
WHAT WILL YOU TRY NEXT???

do i need to go quote you from your posts? pts entitle you to...

Angel Shares are not distributed, since they are only issued by 3I. They are not autonomous, since 3I controls them. They are not a company, since they offer no services. Therefore, they are not a DAC. If you're worried that 3I will just take the PTS sent to the Angel Shares address and run, then you shouldn't even invest in PTS, since withiout 3I many DACs will likely never be created
Protoshares: Pg5EhSZEXHFjdFUzpxJbm91UtA54iUuDvt
Bitmessage: BM-NBrGi2V3BZ8REnJM7FPxUjjkQp7V5D28

Offline alatvian

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2013, 02:58:39 pm »
Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380".  Is a sucker born every minute?

Is this your donation , are you the sucker?

I don't know, am I?  I guess I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.  I thought PTS was actually a "share" in something greater, but I don't now what I'm supposed to do to qualify.  I thought sending PTS to that address was the thing to do.  Am I wrong?

Offline CryptoN8

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2013, 03:06:28 pm »
Sent to addres "PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw" txid "4e85e0de597de2ea25bdd6d80052c2e8b5edd22988934179685a30a9ea539380".  Is a sucker born every minute?

Is this your donation , are you the sucker?

I don't know, am I?  I guess I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.  I thought PTS was actually a "share" in something greater, but I don't now what I'm supposed to do to qualify.  I thought sending PTS to that address was the thing to do.  Am I wrong?
I think you're good. Just make sure you keep your wallet that you sent from, that's really important.
More info here: http://invictus-innovations.com/how-to-get-angelshares

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2014, 12:16:01 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....


Offline Stan

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2014, 12:54:48 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2014, 12:58:18 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

As a PTS holder I'd have a stake in both (10% in one, 20% in the other) so I don't think I'd feel courted away...unless you mean I'd be more likely to use/support/endorse the 20% service because I have double the interest in it succeeding?

Offline Stan

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2014, 01:05:12 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

As a PTS holder I'd have a stake in both (10% in one, 20% in the other) so I don't think I'd feel courted away...unless you mean I'd be more likely to use/support/endorse the 20% service because I have double the interest in it succeeding?

In the end, even Invictus will be interested in something we own, even if it competes with something else we own.

If someone launched a better BitShares right now and honored our PTS/AGS we'd say - "thanks for saving us the trouble" and then get on with using it (and improving on it).  In the open source world, does it really matter who built it?



Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2014, 01:41:56 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 01:57:54 am by delulo »

Offline Stan

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Re: What is ProtoShares?
« Reply #89 on: January 06, 2014, 04:49:38 am »
I think the concept of Protoshares makes sense in that it makse sense for developers to honor Protoshares in their DAC and its a revolutionary and maybe THE way for funding DACs. But there is one case I can think of that that doesnt stimulate honoring of PTS: When a 3rd Party DAC is a direct competitor to any DAC released by I3 (in the future). This is not a definite reason to igrnore Protoshares but it might play a role because credit and attention is given to a direct competitor this way....

Just the opposite...

If I were a determined competitor of Invictus, I sure wouldn't let the fact that they fielded a particular DAC first deter me from courting all the PTS and AGS holders out there for my competing DAC.  I'd want all the advantages Invictus has, so I'd try to outdo them in making an even better deal for the PTS/AGS stakeholders of the community. 

If Invictus offered 10%, I'd offer 20%...  no?

 :)

This is an interesting playing field.
It's a balance between the obvious benefits (easy way to a distributed shareholder base -> advocates / marketers of DAC) against not receiving the part of the money that PTS holders dont have to pay in the initial funding / presale if its a POS Coin. Maybe nothing that weighs out the benefits.. What other benefits does the dac developer have then the one named above?
Why do you think nxt or mastercoin which have some similar features (in terms of claimed functions) like Bitshares (although I think Bitshares is superior from what can be known by now) didn't honor protoshares?

ProtoShares are only 2 months old.
AngelShares are only 2 weeks old.     

As new developers weigh this as a potential new launch option, they have to consider what they would do instead that would be more advantageous:

Quote
AGS was originally viewed as Invictus-specific.  We are only the caretakers, the management agents by which members of the community can crowd-fund common infrastructure and the ecosystem on which other DACs can quickly build. 100% of the funds raised are recycled back into the community to fund development and promotion by the community.   Once the toolkit, infrastructure and ecosystem are built it belongs to the stakeholder community, not Invictus.

So now, as a DAC developer do you want to build on top of that ecosystem without honoring those that sacrificed to build it?  How do you think those PTS and AGS holders collectively would view a new DAC that dissed their contributions?  Who else will understand and appreciate your new DAC if you alienate them?

Would you rather build your own ecosystem and come up with the money to do that all over again independently?  Why?  To save 20% that would otherwise be given away in mining lotteries in an attempt to attract attention from somehow knowledgable non-stakeholders?

These are question every developer must ask.  What do you think the wisest will choose?   :)

And what about the opportunity costs of re-inventing the wheel? 

I think developers will use this launch pad because its the most cost effective way to accelerate their path to fame and glory.

And when it's not, they won't.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.