Author Topic: Lets vote for lower fees!  (Read 9963 times)

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Offline pal

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Guys, I think there is demand from people for lower fees, so I created this to see if it is so.

Demand will be not from people who leave in USA or Europe, but from Chinese and other developing countries.

For USA ten cents is nothing, for others it is barrier.
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jakub

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There are two reasons for this:
1. High fees.
2. Centralization.

Doesn't make sense. These are not the reasons the BTS price is low.

The priority is to finish the GUI and implement all the missing features on the GUI level.
The unfinished UI is the main barrier for new users and also the reason we have low volumes on the internal exchange.
When new users arrive the price will recover and when traders start trading there will be profits from transaction fees and an additional reason for the price to rise.

So at this moment it all boils down to having the UI truly ready.

Offline Stan

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BitShares has just set course to escape from the tyranny of speculators.  They hop from pump to pump and do not make decisions based on the long term value proposition, only the near term trend.

But now the BitShares has a way to bring in new blood and teach new users through the referral program, there will be steady upward pressure on the price.  Let's concentrate on ways to help new people from outside the speculator community learn to gain max value from using the system.  That kind of buy pressure is the sustainable kind!

Everybody can be an entrepreneur in this area and grow their income as they get good at it!

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline pal

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I disagree with reducing fees for two main reasons:

1) It makes the referral program a lot less interesting if you dont expect the users you bring in to generate much of any fees.  So then it will fail.

2) A big reason why the BTS price has been trending down for a year is that the supply is increasing, that is, the blockchain is operating at a loss instead of being profitable.  As soon as we can demonstrate a blockchain making a profit over a reasonable period of time, even a small profit, it will attract a lot of attention.  Everyone is used to inflating blockchains that hemmorhage money (through PoW or whatever), but if you change that around and are actually making a profit, then a lot of investors will want to jump on board.  And helping the price break its downtrend is going to help adopting a LOT, because a major inhibitor to adoption right now is that everyone who buys in loses money and gets disillusioned.

...

1. Low fees are easy sell, we could subscribe more people. Any working referral program will be good incentive for people.
2. We made mistakes in the past, lowering we fees will not be worse than other decisions. But system will become actually usable by people, not investors.
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Offline Akado

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I think it's still to early for that and imo it's doesn't make any sense on blaming the fees. Do you think Bitshares is getting dumped because of the fees? Most people don't even know how much fees they pay. They simply look to make a profit and follow the money. The whole cryptoscene is in a bear market right now. It's not reasonable to blame fees for the decrease in price. Also, add what I mentioned to the fact that it's easy for someone to manipulate a market and there you go.

BitShares 2.0 just launched, price went from 1800 or less satoshis to 3000 for a short while, people sold the news. This is pretty much in a proof of concept atm. We don't have 100 partners wit 1000 of users each running on top of BitShares. We just launched. Expecting a 10x increase in price in this market is not reasonable and whoever stresses about the price not going through the roof atm only seems to be they want to dump.

Everything will happen in due time. We just started, first we need to prove 2.0 is running with no problems, the peg works and the referral system needs to start attracting more people. Only then can we expect a realistic increase in value.

First we attrack some because we're faster, safer, better and because we have a peg working. Then the referral system will do it's job. Meanwhile we will have a few worker proposals for new features. Things take time. We have everything set in place for things to work out, we only need patience.

You can't expect a day after a new software is launched to attract thousands of users. Maybe in the past when the market wasn't in this situation. But thing will happen in due time. Patience is key here. We've been through 1 bad year. Whoever handled this last year can probably wait for better results. it can only get better from my point of view.

We just defined our path and built the road (a good one), now we only need to start and go towards our objective at it's end.
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Offline roadscape

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19134.msg246078.html#msg246078

Look at it this way:

1.  User issued assets can set any core-exchange-rate they like and lower the fees for users of the UIA to close to 0
2.  UIAs can charge market fees similar to exchanges
3.  $0.10 for a normal user or $0.02 cents for a lifetime member are so close to $0 that few would even think about it for a transaction over $10
4.  BTS is not meant to be payment currency.  How many people buy less than $10 worth of stock in a company?  What is the transaction fee on that?

In other words, the ability of users to do "price discrimination" falls apart at values this low.   Unless you are executing 1000's of transactions there is almost no perceivable difference.  Most people won't even bend over to pick up a DIME on the ground.

In other words from a customer perspective  $0.01 and $0.10 are effectively the SAME in low volumes.   At high volumes the price approaches $0.02 for lifetime members which is cheaper than Bitcoin. 

While the difference in price is insignificant to individual users, it is HUGE for the network.   The network is a party to every transaction and thus sees a 5x increase in revenue while the user perceives almost no difference in cost.
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Offline Ander

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I disagree with reducing fees for two main reasons:

1) It makes the referral program a lot less interesting if you dont expect the users you bring in to generate much of any fees.  So then it will fail.

2) A big reason why the BTS price has been trending down for a year is that the supply is increasing, that is, the blockchain is operating at a loss instead of being profitable.  As soon as we can demonstrate a blockchain making a profit over a reasonable period of time, even a small profit, it will attract a lot of attention.  Everyone is used to inflating blockchains that hemmorhage money (through PoW or whatever), but if you change that around and are actually making a profit, then a lot of investors will want to jump on board.  And helping the price break its downtrend is going to help adopting a LOT, because a major inhibitor to adoption right now is that everyone who buys in loses money and gets disillusioned.



Enough fees to turn a profit is the savior of BTS.

The fees for subscribers being 2 cents instead of .5 cent is not going to significantly impact our adoption.

The reason the price dropped is beacuse a bunch of peopel who had bought BTS prior to release but dont actually care about it long term all dumped it.  That had nothing at all to do with what the fee is.


I strongly encourage everyone to vote against lowering the fee.

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Offline pal

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Price of BTS falling after lunch and this seems strange. System that developers put up is really good. We should see 10x increase, but we see decay, again!

There are two reasons for this:
1. High fees.
2. Centralization.

We could solve this. We could be wrong in our calculations about marketing, but we have the ability to change things. Why don't we try?

No other blockchain could not govern itself in such an efficient manner as Bitshares and we could prove it!

I don't want to see BTS for 0.0000150 again. I don't want to pay high fees and hear others complain. And I don't want to hear that Bitshares centralized. If you agree - just vote for pal as committee and we will change things, together.

My proposal:
Let's reduce all fees by the factor of 4.
Our system very good, we should be able to grow by 4x in short time if there will be no such resistance as high fees for people to use Bitshares.
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