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According to the forum user named Huntercrafterminers , "kill switch": an ability of the genesis block generator to erase the whole chain and restart it. To the rest of I3 team , is this possible? or the guy is only spreading FUD?
What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?Exchange!
I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.
BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).
If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.
Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!
It's much more complicated than that. Without the bond market and prediction market, or margin trading, what is the liquidity supposed to come from? Traders need loans to keep trading. There has to be profit taking from somewhere.
The referral market is a great idea and I support any plans to expand or continue the growth of it, but it's not enough. We need a loan market. People who for example make money from the referrals might benefit form margin trading. Other people who make money from referrals might want a place to park their wealth and might decide loaning for a safe 1-5% in interest is best. Another person might launch a UIA of a decentralized market fund and let everyone who holds it collect dividends.
We need as many different opportunities for profit making as we can generate. We then need to advertise the opportunities to take a profit. If the UI/UX is sufficient, and the profit opportunities are ubiquitous, there will be an endless supply of profit takers and then Bitshares will be flooded with liquidity.
Profit opportunity acts as the bait which attracts everyone to Bitshares. If there isn't any known way to make a profit we will not do much trading. Right now it's too hard to use the interface or to make a profit. I'm unable to figure Bitshares 2.0 out well enough to know how to take a profit and it seems most everyone is losing money trying to trade right now.
There aren't any blogs set up to show people how to trade. How do you expect to attract traders when you don't have a network of blogs showing people your trading schemes and spreadsheets examining how much money you made? There isn't even a troll box so people who are making money can discuss it while they are making money.
As a result, it looks like Bitshares isn't being used at all. If anyone is using it to make money they seem to prefer to keep everything a secret. Keeping it a secret is not going to market the platform. The way to market the platform is to bring profit making opportunities to regular people.
Prediction markets, bond markets, margin trading, referral markets, crowd funding, and as soon as legal, equity crowd funding. Do that and you'll have plenty of advertising not coming from the forum, but from people launching crowd fund campaigns on the Bitshares platform, or from people making lots of money trading on the Bitshares platform, the sort of people who make a living trading on the Bitshares platform are the best possible marketing to professional traders. Show it's possible to be a professional trader and you'll attract more people who want to be professional traders.
I am about 90% sure the worker proposal includes margin trading. ...prediction market just needs a gui.
What is the use case of Bitshares for average user at moment? Buy and Hold. Buy and Hold doesn't generate a lot of fees which doesn't generate alot of income for referrers.There is anything for them to use it for yet. The only thing for the average user to do is refer other users. What is the average user using bitshares for at the moment?. The infrastructure is still being built. Currently there is use case for traders. They have an immediate use for Bitshares. They can trade between other assets/uia and use bitusd to hedge. Traders are the immediate customer for Bitshares. They will generate the most fees for referrers. Until an average user can buy groceries or pay bills with bitusd they wont be generating fees because they wont be transferring BitAssets anyway.
, referral programme has limited value atm
The referral program won't work without a product to sell.
The core product is BitAssets, but without a credible plan for liquidity/incentives for market makers it will be very slow going to attract regular customers.
If you're struggling to artificially create BitAsset liquidity then you have to look at introducing other key sellable products that will bring users in and who will slowly create that liquidity over time. But paying more people to promote BTS but with nothing users want to buy when they get here is not the answer imo.
We can see from the recent LTC and BTC pyramid ponzi schemes that when people are incentivised to promote crypto related products they can quickly go viral.
So combine a legitimate referral programme with an innovative and useful crypto product & you do have the recipe for great results.
What is the use case of Bitshares for average user at moment? Buy and Hold. Buy and Hold doesn't generate a lot of fees which doesn't generate alot of income for referrers.There is anything for them to use it for yet. The only thing for the average user to do is refer other users. What is the average user using bitshares for at the moment?. The infrastructure is still being built. Currently there is use case for traders. They have an immediate use for Bitshares. They can trade between other assets/uia and use bitusd to hedge. Traders are the immediate customer for Bitshares. They will generate the most fees for referrers. Until an average user can buy groceries or pay bills with bitusd they wont be generating fees because they wont be transferring BitAssets anyway.
What use case do you want to support, an exchange or a currency?Exchange!
I totally agree wit BM. If we can charge the "network fee" of 0.1~0.15% on traders, referrers will get much more money.
BitShares first should be the trader's heaven, no counterparty risks, decent trading speed (1~3sec), honest orderbook, and lower fees (slightly maybe).
If our system is attractive, bots and traders will come and generate money.
Looking forward to reading the worker proposal!
From a referrer perspective, which is going to generate you more money: referring 100 people each of which does a few transfers per year or referring one person who does day trading?
If we can get the day traders then we make money. Much easier and much more profitable. I am thinking that the lifetime value of a day trader is much higher than the LTV of a regular user. This means that the LTM fees should be much higher.
*** NOT CANCELING THE REFERRAL PROGRAM **
You should not believe everything you read on these forums
Excellent.
Can you explain please, I wasn't in the mumble and this sounds like something I want to hear.If his stats show 42 users / 2500 bts reward figures, then that means none of his referred users upgraded to annual/lifetime accounts, otherwise it would reflect a much higher reward.I'd like to get a definitive answer.
Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.
And that is the secret to the success or failure of Bitshares. Developers have to create as many technical ways for us to make BitShares successful while allowing us to indirectly benefit. The more we can align the two the better the ecosystem will get.
The referral program is just the beginning of course. There is also the Brownie.PTS, the crowd funding opportunities, the potential bond market, the potential prediction market, so we have to basically bootstrap an industry and attract people to the community with mutually benefiting profit opportunities.
currently it's ~10 LT per 1000 sign-ups. this is a numbers game, don't bother looking at my 44 users.
anyways, if BM makes true what he said in today's mumble there's no need to talk about referral program or earning money here anymore. since that will be dead
there will be a proposal by him, basically nulling all fees except for trading fees.
sounds good at the beginning, but there's absolutely no need for regular users to upgrade their accounts. that makes 10 LT per 1000 to MAYBE 1 (an active trader) per 1000. there's no way a marketer can sustain at that level.
I'd like to get a definitive answer.
Perhaps my goal is to make BitShares successful and indirectly I benefit. Besides, there's more to a business than just getting some referral income, which according to your numbers (so far at least) doesn't look sustainable as a profitable business, especially if you consider what it would cost to obtain a CNX license before you signed up 42 new users for a 2500 BTS reward.
You can margin call with your own BTS, this is what I did just now.
For example, make a 100 000 BTS deposit and you can margin call (long in my case). Just be very careful to have a large marge (Est. Liquidation Price 175 in my case).
This is the way I found to buy BTS with no money. If you do it cleverly (say buy 10 000 BTS for a deposit of 100 000 BTS), it should be ok. If every BTS holder do it margin dumpers are dead.
This is exactly what everyone of us including BM should have been doing..The level of comfort depends to each of us..Since I didn't have much BTS and I wanted to support the price, I got margin long with my bts as collateral but unfortunately not having a lot of comfort I played a very risky game and lost big time..Someone with millions BTS may support the price by creating walls and have a lot of comfort not to get margin called since he would use for 1 mil BTS to buy 300k BTS and not 2.5 mil BTS..
We all want to trade eventually in our platform but until this is ready we could have supported the price in Polo, BTS become expensive, people want to learn what is BTS and gradually we move on from Polo to our DEX..
Instead of that even people preaching about BTS in here all the time, when they show the dumping started to dump as well and once the dumping starts it never ends..Even at this level and with BTC retracing there is no buy support in Polo..Hence in the future we will end up with a great product, "worthless" BTS and desperate hodlers who for the last two years have supported the project losing their money..
Anyway...
This is interesting...to hear strategies that BTS holders can use not just to HODL BTS...but take active steps to support BTS price with varies levels of risk.
Yes lets get away from trying to reinvent everything, and instead try to take what is already proven to work, and adapt it into the blockchain.
I keep telling people that Mintpal was the most successful altcoin exchange not because it had groundbreaking features or support, but because it had the cleanest interface of them all. It's a shame that nobody is using that UI anymore. Poloniex looks nice, but it became successful because Mintpal disappeared.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140315230829/https://www.mintpal.com/
Here you have the complete front-end. The exchange came into life 1 year after Cryptsy and 1 month after Poloniex and managed to capture both user bases pretty fast.
BTC-E seems to be the most successful, but there are others.
Well, BTC-e was founded in 2011 and it also stopped being an altcoin exchange a long time ago as everyone is focused on BTC/LTC nowadays. BTC-e is to Bitcoin exchanges what Polo was to altcoin exchanges in 2014. Old and lacking of tools for serious trading. It is successful because it was founded many years ago and managed to build a solid user base without having to deal with a lot of competition along the way. With Mintpal, the story was different. A new altcoin platform that became 1st after a few weeks, stealing the clients from all the other exchanges. Reason ? The sleek, simple to use GUI.
LIST OF THE BEST AND WORST CRYPTOCURRENCY EXCHANGES in 2014
http://www.usacryptocoins.com/thecryptocurrencytimes/uncategorized/list-of-the-best-and-worst-cryptocurrency-exchanges/
Too bad i cannot find that screen with the top exchanges sorted by volume. Mintpal had so much volume in early 2014 that it was being compared with Bitstamp and Bitfinex.
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Speaking about MetaTrader, i think it looks absolutely horrendous and its success had to do more with the fact that it was released in 2002-2005 and also that it had a great marketing campaign behind it. I remember that before adblock existed, i was receiving hundreds of pop-ups per day about the MetaTrader platform.
Another reason could be:
Why is MT4 monopolizing the Forex Biz?
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/community/threads/why-is-mt4-monopolizing-the-forex-biz.23937/
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There are some elements that you can take from Bitstamp and implement in graphene, but i'm afraid that "Tradeview" would be the last. It looks great, but it's clunky and it hangs often when you are dealing with great volume.
I agree with copying Poloniex too. Their last UI update made a night-and-day difference.
A "Best Exchange Poll" already effectively exists and it constantly updated: just look at volume. People trade at their preferred exchange and "vote" with their dollars and satoshis.
I keep telling people that Mintpal was the most successful altcoin exchange not because it had groundbreaking features or support, but because it had the cleanest interface of them all. It's a shame that nobody is using that UI anymore. Poloniex looks nice, but it became successful because Mintpal disappeared.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140315230829/https://www.mintpal.com/
Here you have the complete front-end. The exchange came into life 1 year after Cryptsy and 1 month after Poloniex and managed to capture both user bases pretty fast.
