Author Topic: Best Exchange Website  (Read 27059 times)

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Offline clayop

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For fee rules, the best would probably be  0.2% fee (this is how crypto exchanges work).  But If we cannot do percentage fees, then a flat fee per trade also works, the way that stock brokerages work, for example scottrade $7 trades.  So if it is too technically difficult to do a .2% fee on the blockchain for some reason, a flat fee can work.

We are doing percentage fees. See the asset details -> market fee (That's why I'm arguing trading fee of 10 BTS is "additional")
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/asset/OPENBTC

It is really, really important that customers dont pay fees for orders that do not execute (aside from a very very small fee purely to prevent spam, that needs to be as low as possible, like .1 BTS).  This needs to be the case for both lifetime members and normal users.  Not everyone is going to be a lifetime member, and we need the liquidity those people provide from creating orders.
Since 80% of paid fees go to referral, I think 0.1 BTS for all is not feasible. Instead, we can decrease the difference by lowing the trading fee to 1 BTS (0.8 BTS for normal member vs. almost 0 BTS for lifetime member. Based on current fee system, it's 8 BTS vs. 0 BTS)
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Offline topcandle


If I lend funds to someone when there is no order book, then it is impossible to "call".

Maybe for these situations, if not locked up, there is also a expiration date attached to the lending.  So you borrow for X number of days and the person receives it back with interest.
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Offline bytemaster

I think the order matching rules are pretty good right now.  It seems to be standard (same as other exchanges).

The margin trading using the current orderbook to determine whether or not to execute sounds like the right way to go.  My question is how does it bootstrap?

If I lend funds to someone when there is no order book, then it is impossible to "call". 
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Offline Ander

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This post gives me hope about bitshares again!


We will be migrating BitShares GUI to copy as closely as possible the best interface out there.   We will also be copying the best fee system and best market rules.

Copy Poloniex GUI imo.  It is great for trading lots of alts against a main coin.  (Note: We are trading lots of assets against core BTS in Bitshares, so its similar).

For fee rules, the best would probably be  0.2% fee (this is how crypto exchanges work).  But If we cannot do percentage fees, then a flat fee per trade also works, the way that stock brokerages work, for example scottrade $7 trades.  So if it is too technically difficult to do a .2% fee on the blockchain for some reason, a flat fee can work.


It is really, really important that customers dont pay fees for orders that do not execute (aside from a very very small fee purely to prevent spam, that needs to be as low as possible, like .1 BTS).  This needs to be the case for both lifetime members and normal users.  Not everyone is going to be a lifetime member, and we need the liquidity those people provide from creating orders.


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Everyone seems to like poloniex margin trading, so we will adapt their rules unless Bitfinex is better.    Any help on identifying the best choices let us know.

Polo is good, and it appears that it is working really well and has not had a single instance of someone who gets margin called not being able to pay back all of what they owe to lenders.  (Of course, it has had many instances of margin calls taking most of peoples BTC or alts, but that is what "should" happen). 

This algorithm is quite complicated however.  Essentially, every time someone places or removes an order or makes a buy or sell, it then checks whether the resulting state will cause somoene to get margin called, not based on the nominal price that the item just traded at, but at the remaining orderbook!  This is very important because just because some alt is trading at '100' does not mean that someone who got margin called would be able to sell it all at 100 to fulfill their margin.  They need to account for the fact that the margin call is going to dump it down a huge amount through the orders on the book and crash the price.   This leads to the behavior we have seen on polo, which is that at some point a whale will pull a large buy order from below the price, and the lack of that order existing on the books anymore will cause someone to no longer fulfill their margin requirements, so they dump into the now thin order book, and then this causes others to get margin called, etc. 

While this might seem bad, it is the way it has to be in order to work correctly.  After all, we cannot have instances where the blockchain generates tons of extra BTS or an asset type, to cover someone who is gets margin called and cannot pay people back.  If this loophole exists it could be exploitable in some small illiquid asset and be used to generate large amounts of the asset or BTS, and would ruin everything.

Some of the bitcoin exchanges like huobi and okcoin use a system of socialized losses where if a person is margin called and cannot pay, everyone trading futures covers the loss.  This is total BS and we should not do it, every time it happens tons of people flee those exchanges.

Note also:  The margin lending CAN BE THE BOND MARKET.  Go look at the poloniex lending page and see how it works.  IT IS A BOND MARKET right there.  So implementing this feature and the bond market are really one item. 

It is very important that the margin call system works correctly so that lenders ALWAYS get their BTS (or whatever) back in full.  Otherwise the bond market becomes a big risk and no one will trust it.


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We are going to stop trying to invent new market mechanics if at all possible and use what is proven to work.   So please help us identify places where our system deviates from the market-accepted solutions.

1.  Fee Systems
2.  Trading Interfaces
3.  Order Matching Rules

In other words, we want people to be able to use BitShares without having to learn anything new!

Fee system:  The place we deviate is fees for cancelled orders.  These need to be made really really really low, only existing to prevent spam from filling up our TPS.

Trading Interface: Copy poloniex imo.

Order matching rules: You should be able to put in an order for more than the current price, and it will match it to the orders on the books at those prices, and not take the difference as a fee.  (No 'get what you asked for' or whatever).  This is not a good way for the blockchain to try and make money, the blockchain makes money by having happy customers making lots of transactions and paying a fee for each.
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Offline mike623317

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1. Please have a 'novice' section so non-traders can buy/sell easily at the spot price.
2. Have this work on the iPhone, ideally with an app available in the AppStore
3. As clean and intuitive as possible

Offline luckybit

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A "Best Exchange Poll" already effectively exists and it constantly updated: just look at volume.  People trade at their preferred exchange and "vote" with their dollars and satoshis.

The interface can be improved to standard but that isn't the issue. The reason certain exchanges got popular was there are certain exclusive assets on them combined with a sufficient interface.

Poloniex isn't the best interface ever, it falls far behind many others, but it's sufficient and it has a lot of coins to trade.

And fees are something only the bots care about usually because when people make a successful trade they dont think about fees.
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Offline luckybit

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I keep telling people that Mintpal was the most successful altcoin exchange not because it had groundbreaking features or support, but because it had the cleanest interface of them all. It's a shame that nobody is using that UI anymore. Poloniex looks nice, but it became successful  because Mintpal disappeared.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140315230829/https://www.mintpal.com/

Here you have the complete front-end. The exchange came into life 1 year after Cryptsy and 1 month after Poloniex and managed to capture both user bases pretty fast.

BTC-E seems to be the most successful, but there are others.
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Offline carpet ride

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Look into Validatley if we want to do product / UI research and development .  I saw their CEO present a couple weeks ago.. They could be an awesome service for us.
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Offline donkeypong

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Bytemaster, this is great news. The trader folks have convinced me, over time, that we need to bring in that exchange business. Make our trading experience smooth, with kick ass charts, and we already know it's trustworthy. This is definitely the thread to consider (some good suggestions were made):

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19763.msg253690.html#msg253690

Offline puppies

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I matching APIs as close as possible is as important as GUI.

very true.  Make it easy to integrate.
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Offline Akado

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A "Best Exchange Poll" already effectively exists and it constantly updated: just look at volume.  People trade at their preferred exchange and "vote" with their dollars and satoshis.

This would be the case if chinese exchanges wouldnt have 0% fees, which can easily be used to fake volume.  ;)
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Offline Pheonike


I matching APIs as close as possible is as important as GUI.

Offline well.attenuated

A "Best Exchange Poll" already effectively exists and it constantly updated: just look at volume.  People trade at their preferred exchange and "vote" with their dollars and satoshis.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Akado

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Im going to share a friends opinion on this which seems like a curious fact. The exchanges with best interfaces like bitstamp are the ones with most value or are taken as good brands. This is because they seem like a Banks site. It looks clean and smooth, not too much info, only the essential. I Will make the same comparison i Made in the past, see Yahoo and then Google. Then see the differences and why People prefer Google.

Nice, clean, smooth and consistent interface. It helps creating a brand. People willl identify it as a profissional exchange.

I Will check others but ill say Bitstamp for now. Its as simple as it gets.

If you notoce there is a huge difference between main btc exchanges and altcoin exchange.

 +5% +5% +5% on following already proven mechanics. Gives less work and the best is that People already know how to use it. Thats very very important in costumer acquisition. They dont have to waste time learnong, they immediately compare it with other exchanges they have used.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 05:36:16 pm by Akado »
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Offline ValentinJesse

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I keep telling people that Mintpal was the most successful altcoin exchange not because it had groundbreaking features or support, but because it had the cleanest interface of them all. It's a shame that nobody is using that UI anymore. Poloniex looks nice, but it became successful  because Mintpal disappeared.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140315230829/https://www.mintpal.com/

Here you have the complete front-end. The exchange came into life 1 year after Cryptsy and 1 month after Poloniex and managed to capture both user bases pretty fast.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2015, 05:29:53 pm by ValentinJesse »