Quote from: AdamBLevine on April 21, 2014, 03:38:16 am

I do not claim to be a coder, I do not set timelines, I am a user and a prototypical one which should be more concerning.   Many times I suggested that Bitshares not set timeframes it might be unable to keep but it took many public instances of failure for that message to be driven home to the Bitshares team.

How should I be easier on Bitshares?  I am open to suggestions if you think that is best.

Why do you think there is a 100% chance of Daniel delivering?  I am very much concerned the way money was raised is going to cause major problems which would put a giant stop on the whole endeavor.

I'm saying timelines are very difficult.  Even when you understand the problem. We/they are still working at the solution for some of the most basic problems.  Dan has decided to move beyond POW.  I find that a positive goal yet I also wish it was instantaneous.

I said he will deliver on a NEAT product.  I have no evidence his tech will overtake the world, but a bit of gambler's faith.  It seems plausible, but to me it seems more interesting than anything.

I can not comment on your podcast's take on Bitshares.  I've listened to some episodes and they're very high quality. (obv)  I'm not some random hater.

I can comment on you showing up here and just harassing on time frames.  This is a valid thing to do !  However, please understand that software dev is one of those  jobs where people with no clue (not you) think they can do better. 

It is much like trying to understand what sort of person you'll be 5 years from now.  Nearly impossible.  If you could foresee it all, you'd already be there.  This is the same thing with software dev.

Where will it settle within the scope of humanity?  I dunno.. but thats what I am here for because I have nothing else that interests me as much.

Cheers!

I wish Daniel had focused on delivering Bitshares as envisioned and then created subsequent versions or products that incorporate these elements.  That is what I signed on for, not "whatever daniel larimer thinks is a good idea this week".    The delays have been because the focus and method has constantly pivoted to be "the best possible" when in reality not having launched the product we don't even know what is best and if these "improvements" are making things better or worse, since we've never had an opportunity to see a product to compare against.

You have faith in Daniel, the people who remain on these forums clearly do which is why it's an echo chamber and people with dissenting views find themselves shouted down by the people who are passionate about the bitshares vision instead of pragmatic about the reality.      I'm using these 2.0 products every day (projects on Mastercoin, Counterparty, I'm working with the NXT and Ethereum communities), this is not a hypothetical situation.   

Bitshares was in first, and now they're in last - Even Ethereum has highly functional test code out for interested parties to build contracts on, why are we reinventing the transaction processing wheel?   

Because Daniel decided mining is dead, and that's been the technological focus ever since.   Mining will eventually be phased out, but it should NEVER have replaced the core mission of delivering Bitshares, and it clearly did.

Sounds like you know the business model, why not demonstrate it yourself?  This community is very self-starter oriented and Invictus has a big pile of money dedicated to expanding the space so do good work and perhaps you'll get a grant.

Quote from: AdamBLevine on April 21, 2014, 03:05:07 am

I wish you'd listened more on things like "don't post topics that say GET YOUR BITSHARESX WALLET HERE when it's not at all available" than things like "talk to that guy for marketing".   I wish you had listened more on things like "Don't lock yourself into 100% of Bitshares being allocated, just allocated 10% to PTS and 10% to AGS and leave the remaining 80% flexible" and less on things like "speak on this panel i'm organizing about new ideas".

You guys have made bad decisions and continue to do so, at some point you'll have to launch and then we'll see what got produced with all those pivots and rejiggerings.  Will it be worth the wait?  No idea.  Is it what I signed on for, or what Daniel sold to my listeners?  Nope.

  I have huge hope for the project but have lost my faith in the core team at invictus to deliver because every self imposed deadline has been blown, and yet the decision making structure that has failed to perform so far is more entrenched than ever and acting in its own self defense.  Is this what the decentralized revolution looks like?

Adam, do you write code ?  I've tried a bit over the years to get it right but I still underestimate timeframes..  Complexity is not something you can easily estimate.  Without being a coder/programmer it is soooo hard to understand these things.  I wish I knew the right book to reference ...

Dan may have oversold his idealism at times but there is a  100% chance there is going to be neat stuff coming out of this.

Dan tried his best being a salesman.  To me - he only offered potentials.  Yes, I agree he oversold at times, but I believe his intentions are pure and I believe him to be a legitimate actor in the cryptocurrency world.

Has Dan delivered?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not. 

However, please realize that this is about the most bleeding edge you can get..  Nothing in this world has the potential to be as disruptive at BTC 2.0 technologies. 

So if your motives are as pure as you claim, please go a bit easier on Bitshares.  Ask hard questions about implementation/exploits. Do this for all techs.

I do not claim to be a coder, I do not set timelines, I am a user and a prototypical one which should be more concerning.   Many times I suggested that Bitshares not set timeframes it might be unable to keep but it took many public instances of failure for that message to be driven home to the Bitshares team.

How should I be easier on Bitshares?  I am open to suggestions if you think that is best.

Why do you think there is a 100% chance of Daniel delivering?  I am very much concerned the way money was raised is going to cause major problems which would put a giant stop on the whole endeavor.

Indeed, the way the rules are written for the MaidSafe Crowdsale they NEEDED to fix a price for MSC and given the extremely low liquidity of mastercoin the .2 price is conservative.  Right now MSC is priced based on no good exchanges and no uses, post Maidsafe it will be a very different value proposition.

I agree with Luckybit, we should not be cheering for failure - we WANT them to succeed because it sets a precedent for our success.

Quote from: AdamBLevine on April 21, 2014, 02:43:08 am

That's my point.  Regardless of expectation I do not get special treatment so your suggestion that I do is simply incorrect.   I expect my concrens to be addressed because I'm a long time supporter both vocally and financially of the Bitshares project, and as an investor I'm very unhappy with the way things are being handled but I have no way to do anything besides voice my concerns.

You most definitely do get special treatment.  How can you not be aware of your status as the #1 media guy in this cryptocurrency world ?  If you're not #1, then give me a list of people ?

Honestly, I feel like I am "trolling" you too hard and that it might make you unduly negative towards Bitshares.  *That* is how highly I think of your influence even if I am not a regular podcast listenin' dude.

If you dropped 1k PTS accidentally on an AGS donation and are a sharp guy, then you are far more wealthy than me.  I don't even understand the timing of why you'd be donating 1k on a certain day without being very well off.

You must have a lot of crypto-equity.  I am jealous.

What special treatment do I get?  Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.   People do not pay me for the work I do, I am a squeaky wheel on forums like these because I am a real investor in the space, just like everybody else. 

I am heavily in cryptoequity because I believe it is the future, which is why I also spend all my time learning, developing and talking about it - this should not be surprising. 

1k PTS is not a small amount, I just always understood the rules about no crying in baseball.  It was my mistake, at least I got some AGS for it even if I was competing against myself.

Quote from: AdamBLevine on April 21, 2014, 01:45:22 am

But lets play out your logic, what power has my name given me on these forums besides not being dismissed out of hand as a troll?  I'm really curious what my name is getting me besides being on the record about my complaints.  Has anything changed?  Did anyone listen to me about anything?   Were my concerns addressed? 

Nope.

Your last paragraph is a bit of an argument against your point.  You seem on some level to expect your concerns to be addressed because you are Adam B. Levine...

That's my point.  Regardless of expectation I do not get special treatment so your suggestion that I do is simply incorrect.   I expect my concrens to be addressed because I'm a long time supporter both vocally and financially of the Bitshares project, and as an investor I'm very unhappy with the way things are being handled but I have no way to do anything besides voice my concerns.

People say whatever they want about me, I am what I am, and when I have concerns I voice them.  I think I'm pretty consistent in being the squeaky wheel.

I do it under my own name because many people found out about projects like Bitshares from me and so I feel like I have a responsibility to those who I know have invested money and aren't watching things as closely as I am.

If you want to know me, listen to the show.  I am exactly who I seem to be, it's very simple.

Happy to make an introduction to the organizer, Scott Robinson if you guys don't know him.