7. One by one, they will come until the call in the bitcoin community is 50% or more and they will hardfork bitcoin to DPOS. That will be great for Bitcoin and bitshares and by extension humanity.

Even IF it was possible to achieve a 50% consensus, what good would that do the people trying to make the decisions?  Even if you had %60 or more, again, how would anyone know?  Let us say you got enough people together to somehow vote their Bitcoins, and were able to achieve a 75% consensus of all Bitcoins for converting away from mining, and prove to everyone you had achieved such.  (Good luck with all that!!)  The rest of them would be lost, for who knows what reasons,  to some alt coin that is still mined, like Litecoin, again, causing a crash of Bitcoin valuations - end of Bitcoin's significance, just like the split in the ripple community devastated ripple.  These types of splitting problems, and so many competing Alt coins, are the criticle problems most holding things back.

My point is that the crypto currency community that first solves these kinds of problems, and is able to amplify the wisdom of all the holders of the currency, and can build and rigorously measure significant amounts of consensus, make lightning fast decisions, like you seem to think they will be able to achieve, and if the people making such decisions can know, quantitatively, how much consensus they do or don't have, in real time, and what is required to achieve near unanimous consensus, without loosing anyone, THAT is the currency that will blow away all other currencies, and finally pull in all the Big institutions, who then know their desires would be heard, and so on.

Oh, and did I mention that modern leaderless governance, consensus building, amplification of the wisdom of the crowd systems like those being developed at Canonizer.com are capable of doing all this, with ease?

In my opinion, good leaderless hon bureaucratic Governance is what will, in the end, determine the winning crypyto currency, and only with that will you get the rest of the world.

Figured.  But one can hope, can't they?

How hard would it be to implement something that would enable purchase of BTSX with Bitcoin, not just BitBTC?

Anyone thinking of anything like this?

How long after Ether is trading, will it be before we can purchase BTSX, with Ether, in the Bitshares client AKA vault?

I invested a good chunk of money in the Ether genesis block, just for fun, but would like to move it back to BTSX as soon as, and as easy as possible.

Quote from: xeroc on September 09, 2014, 08:42:25 pm

Quote from: MeTHoDx on September 09, 2014, 08:36:19 pm

Quote from:  OldMan

"What happens if 51 delegates collude?" is going to be a common question, no matter how small the likelihood of it actually happening.

I can imagine a time when delegates are part of a political party. You'll have the BitShares equivalent of delegate.democrats and delegate.republicans. Voting one party in over another means that party has control of the network.

you may forget that btsx is an international network .. i guess country politics will have their problems becoming an active delegate ..

I don't mean that literally. I mean we'll have the BitShares equivalent.

This kind of polarization and governments elected via primitive methods is definitely a problem to be solved.  And so far, no crypto currency has solved it.  For example, Either is going the beurocratic way of Bitcoin, creating an Etherium foundation to try to help solve the problem.  But there is no way a beurocracy like that could do something like convert Bitcoin from POW to dPOS.

But I believe these types of problems have also been solved with modern governance and modern leaderless social amplification of the wisdom of the crowd and consensus building systems like those being developed at Canonizer.com.  They enable huge leaderless organizations/heards to be very intelligent, and to drastically change directions, on a dime, if need be, without all the polarizing battles to the death that polarizes, destroys and paralyzes bureaucracies and hierarchies.

From the looks of the exchange there is a shitload of volume.

"Canonized Law of the Crypto Coin"

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/154/2

Quote from: Brent.Allsop on September 03, 2014, 09:16:06 pm

Through most if Bitcoin's history, it increased in value an order of magnitude in price 7 times, and all but one of those was in almost exactly 6 months.

See this historical graph:

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/154/2

I'm assuming the reason it has stopped this progression is because of Bitcoin 2.0, primarily BitsharesX.

And it seems that Bitshares is taking up this 10 times increase every 6 months where Bitcoin left off.

After all, most of us purchased our Genesis block Bitshares at around $0.005 per share right?  And the first bubble easily made it past $0.05 in about 6 months time.

My prediction is that it will hit $0.50 per share in less than 6 months, and that this rate will continue for some time.  Anyone have any arguments for a different view?

Also, just as I've been predicting, the price of Bitshares would be depressed until the Either sale ended, many people taking their 10 times profit and rolling into Either.  Now that is over, the price looks like it is starting to move again.

I want to believe that BTSX will be 0.50 in 6 months, but is there anything tangible backing this claim other than speculation at this point?

If you do not know some of the powerful arguments for why it could be worth $0.50 in 6 months, you must be new to this forum.  A few of the very powerful (though not quantitative) arguments I know about, which are most convincing to me, are the fact that everyone always talks about how Bitcoin is just the first draft of this decentralized technology, and that something far superior will eventually replace it, long term.  Hence the term Crypto Currency 2.0.

Also, BitsharesX, as far as I can see, is vastly superior not only to Bitcoin, but to everything else out there, or even on the horizon.  The second most powerful argument to me, is the fact that there is a critical need (i.e. HUGE demand) for a crypto currency that is Stable in price.  BitUSD is the first technology that has now proven that this is possible.  In other words, BitUSD, once sufficiently proven to everyone, could replace the US government as the largest distributor of USD denominated currencies or stores of value (i.e. more than all T-bonds issued by the US Governement).  And even if only .0001% of that happens, the price of BTSX cold literally "go to the moon", or as THE bytmaster prefers to say: "Go to Mars, or even Pluto" simply because of all the BTSX collateral requited to enable that to happen.  And I can think of a whole shitload of other arguments that are near as powerful as these, but there isn't space for all that here.  If there are any  BIG (as in convinces lots of people) arguments for anyone I've messed, I'd like to hear them.

Finally, are you familiar with exponential laws like Moore's Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law and the more general Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns?  Gordon More helped Intel grow as much as they did by predicting the growth rate of Integrated Circuits with his very accurate predictions that came to be known as Moore's Law.

When I saw Bitcoin doing a very similar law like thing, over a very surprisingly long period of time, especially the last 10 times increase in 6 months, for a total of 7 times, (and now Bitshares repeating this) I couldn't believe that could happen, so consistently, with something like Bitcoin.  So I started thinking of this as the "Canonized law of the Crypto Currency" and  figured if there was a 2.0 Crypto Currency, it could take over the growth were Bitcoin left off, just as Kurzweil predicts will happen with new paradigm shifts, in his generalized law of accelerating returns.

Sure, long term, the first non quantitative arguments I pointed out seem very powerful to me.  But there is nothing quantitative about those long term predictions.  To me, this Mores law is a very powerful argument, and not only that, it is a very quantitative argument, that puts some real numbers to things.  It is just a general observation that very improbably things, when there is enough of these kind of  megatrend things like this, they can become Law like.

And, disclaimer, this "Canonized law of Crypto Currency" http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/154/2 is not tied to Bitcoin, Bitshares or any individual currency.  Just as Moore's Law didn't only apply to Intel Chips.  It is just the decentralized peer to peer technology in general, and includes the market cap of all of them, combined.

I'd be interested if anyone else besides me thinks this could be a very powerful quantitative predictor of the future total value of all Crypto Currency, just as Moore's law still accurately and quantitatively predicts Chip densities.

Quote

When I execute this command:

   votes <account with no shares>

I get the expected "No votes found."

But when I execute the same votes command on an account with shares, it just does nothing?

Happens here too ... might be a bug ... it used to work well .. odd

This still seems to be a problem in the current version.  How does one submit or report these types of defects so they will get fixed?

Oh, Thanks xeroc, for all the very valuable help you provide  to me and everyone.  I sent you a tip, so let me know if you didn't get it.