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Messages - oldman

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526
I've checked agsexplorer and it appears I held less PTS prior to snapshot than I thought. Good so far...

However, I now have a multiplier of exactly 500 rather than 640.

ie. the 'claim' BTSX balance is PTS*500 and not PTS*1.28*500.

Has everyone else checked the math on their PTS imports?

I guess the question is: should we be receiving PTS*1.28*500 or PTS*500?

As an aside - thanks to happypatty for the quick/helpful response. If I now want to vote for you as a delegate, who do I vote for?

527
I've imported a PTS wallet.dat file successfully into the Bitshares wallet and now have a BTSX balance.

According to this post https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5722.msg77179#msg77179 my BTSX balance should be approximately PTS*640.

Actual balance is PTS*127.967.

I have confirmed the PTS address balance using coinplorer.com.

All blocks are synced, client seems to be working perfectly.

Perhaps I'm missing something? Seem to be out a huge number of BTSX so I'm concerned.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


528
Sounds good! I'm sure you can make it work.

Jump into it and build it in the air! :)

More like chasing BitX down the runway...


529
So you don't really need an escrow, because if you default on your loan it will damage your reputation in the community.

What is to prevent someone from building up a lot of trust over the course of years, and then, just stealing lots of money?  I suppose the amounts could never be high enough to make scheme worthwhile?

Nothing; this type of fraud is endemic among immature P2P lending communities.

There are mature P2P lending communities that manage reputation fraud through identity verification, self-insuring and loan structuring: Lending Club, Lending Tree, Zopa etc.

Crypto P2P is trying to emulate the fiat P2P systems with mixed success: BTCJam, BitBond, BitLendingClub (ha!).

P2P lending requires both escrow and reputation to function efficiently.



530
How does this compare to Ripple for extending credit?

If DAC = Gateway and LND = XRP there are structural similarities.

The Ripple protocol is slick (too slick?) and may be helpful in designing the DAC back-end.

Will be given due consideration.



532
On loan notes:

P2P loans will not be made fungible and ownership of the loan will remain with the original lender until discharged.

The Lending DAC will be a lean platform:

1. Credit scoring

2. Loan discovery

3. Collateral transfer

Pure P2P lending, no additives.

 

533
Its just my opinion that voting on can't produce excellence because the voters are informed at different levels about different topics

You are correct, however, this is exactly the point of the exercise - what does the average Joe (defined as not a developer) feel/think about the branding?

My initial experience was not positive and I thought it something the community should explore.

The uniqueness and non-bitness of Keyhotee are huge strengths.

But I just can't get past the third syllable.

The vast majority of successful/breakthrough branding campaigns used two syllables - we really can't afford to ignore this.

534
KeyID / Re: rebranding update
« on: April 03, 2014, 04:27:00 am »
Manned = corrupt

Unmanned /= corrupt

The sell is basically that DACs don't allow humans to f*ck everything up.

Not sure how to get that into consumer-friendly packaging.

Brian?

535
Just my opinion, but this seems a bit messy.  Wouldn't it be easier and eliminate the rounding issues to just do a doubling bitshift on all balances on any new block in which the total supply would otherwise drop below a minimum?

The monthly reset is neither elegant nor efficient.

However, regular 'deposits' to shareholder accounts provides a familiar mechanism for value distribution.

An investment that produces dependable monthly income is highly desirable to investors.

In short, messy but intentionally so.

 

536
So is this a way to borrow USD with BitUSD as collateral?   

The DAC could enable BitAssets to act as collateral for the lending of RealAssets.

Conveyance of the RealAsset would be a problem:

I loan you USD -> you put bitUSD up as collateral -> I wire you the USD -> You say USD not received -> ?

Without a trustless conveyance mechanism for RealAssets this feature would require a third party or escrow service.

Perhaps this would be feasible once an Escrow DAC is available?


537
Awesome!

I am a serial entrepreneur and crypto/fiat investor. We are building a team and have programming/coding gurus on-board.

Can you say more?


I have built and operated three (non-tech) businesses and been following/investing in the crypto space for two years.

My partner is knowledgeable in several programming languages. We are both working as technical professionals in the engineering field.

Once we get our heads around the platform/scope of work we will grow as required. We have access to hoards undergrad/graduate comp/sci comp/eng if needed.

Quote
40% Market
Does this mean marketing?


This is the open market allocation for the general public, and yes, we are vetting a novel distribution mechanism that does double duty as a marketing campaign.

Rather than tying up this value in a relatively small community of miners we would like to use the allocation to reach a wider audience and accelerate adoption.

Increased adoption = increased shareholder value.

The distribution mechanism is essentially a referral network that is administered by the DAC; creation of a loan earns the referrer XX LND.

We have noted that immature P2P lending communities have a proliferation of small 'reputation building' loans.

Autonomous marketing agents convince new borrowers to engage with the Lending DAC.

The new borrowers create a Keyhotee ID and begin building a reputation/credit score; they do so by taking out small loans.

When the first loan is made, the referrer receives LND.

This should provide both push (referral agents) and pull (new borrowers building a credit rating/reputation) to build momentum/adoption quickly.

Make this lucrative enough and a viral army of autonomous marketers will emerge.

Once all of the public LND allocation has been 'mined' the Lending community should be mature enough to hit critical mass.

There will of course be abuse and we will need to find a way to make gaming the system unattractive/inefficient.

We could certainly earmark some/all for traditional PoW mining, however, we are committed to maximizing shareholder value and mining is perhaps not the best means of doing so.

Quote
Loans can be secured with any bitAsset.

Does this mean you will have an embedded BTS X exchange, or that you will do something clever with cross-chain?


Cross-chain collateralization is absolutely beautiful:

- Borrower puts up assets on any chain as collateral (imagine being able to earn interest on your loan collateral, ie. use BTS as collateral for trading margin)

- If LTV ratio is breached/borrower defaults/payment is missed etc. the loan is called and the Lending DAC transfers assets to the creditor

- A penalty is assessed from the debtor's assets and is split between the creditor and shareholders

We could definitely use input on how this is best accomplished... borrowers would not want to grant the Lending DAC unrestricted access to all of their assets, assuming the collateral requirements < total assets.

Perhaps a separate 'collateral wallet' in Keyhotee would be the simplest solution.

Collateral is put into the wallet, continues to earn interest etc. but is accessible to the DAC if the loan is called.

Quote
Also, any advice from Invictus or other devs on nuts and bolts and how-tos of building a DAC would be greatly appreciated.

We can talk on skype, I can help you through everything except designing your trust/credit/rep system


That would be greatly appreciated! We will take you up on it, but need some time to be well enough informed not to waste your time.

Also looking forward to further feedback from the community to see if there are any major course corrections before we start into the nuts and bolts of it...


538
We are going have a run at creating a P2P Lending DAC based on the Bitshares platform - let's call it Bitshares Lending for now.

I am a serial entrepreneur and crypto/fiat investor. We are building a team and have programming/coding gurus on-board.

We wish to solicit Community input on the proposed social contract and receive feedback on the business model:


The Social Contract:

Total of 4,000,000 LND shares distributed as follows:

25% PTS

25% AGS

40% Market

10% Dev


The Business Model:

Revenue will be generated per BTS; LND will be destroyed continuously as transaction fees between borrower/lender.

100% of revenue will be paid to shareholders via monthly distributions.

The distribution mechanism will be a monthly split.

Shareholders will receive dividends in LND on the first of every month; the total number of shares will reset to 4MM on the first of every month.

Loans can be secured with any bitAsset.

No minimum collateral requirements/LTV ratios; completely free market lending.

Credit rating and reputation will be tied to Keyhotee ID.


This is the simplest and most robust model I can contrive - no middlemen/loan officers/arbitrators/ID verification etc.

Input from the Community on any aspect of our proposal is both welcome and wanted. Please, give us your opinion!

Also, any advice from Invictus or other devs on nuts and bolts and how-tos of building a DAC would be greatly appreciated.

Not sure how we make this official, but this is where it starts.







539
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares Lending DAC
« on: April 01, 2014, 03:31:09 pm »
I've now completed some fairly in-depth market research on the existing crypto/fiat-P2P lending platforms - including funding loans on BTCJam for hands-on experience.

There are two problems to be resolved:

Fraud - P2P loans are unsecured and lender recourse is generally via some type of arbitration process.

Identity - P2P lending attempts to mitigate lender risk through various reputation and identity schemes. This has proven surprisingly successful in mature P2P lending ecosystems where default rates can be less than 5%.

However, establishing identity is a non-starter for the billions of people that have no identity per se. Government ID is very much a first world luxury and this is very apparent in the user demographics of the P2P lending platforms.

I believe the Bitshares platform can resolve both of these issues.





540
General Discussion / Re: Dividends?
« on: March 26, 2014, 05:30:37 pm »
How about this: once per day the total supply is increased back to 4,000,000 BTS.  OldMan with his 4000 BTS would wake up the next morning to see 4000.5 BTS because 500 coins had been destroyed the previous day, and the block chain updated everyone's wallet balances without actual transactions.

This, except reset monthly instead of daily.

Current practice is monthly distributions and sticking close to what investors are familiar with will help adoption.

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