I start to see the attractiveness in Bitcoin.

Miners have to put in chuck load of money to fight for the job of block production without demanding "reasonable market fee" because market principle and competition are the only factors that matters .

You think you can be be guaranteed fixed incomes ? Fine , don't do mining, others will do it .

There is no job security in Bitcoin. No guaranteed  status, even the big miners have to purchase more advanced mining machines from time to time to be at the top of the food chain.

As for technical advancement, I think seg-wit will come to fruition. Once you have enough capital in the field, all "issues" will be fixed overtime as time have shown.

It's not about how many dilution you can give to developers that matters.
It's about how people and capital keep rushing in regardless of the slim the chance of guaranteed of profit in the field. When you buy a mining machine, no one in the network will promise you that it will  be worth your while, but you know in your heart that the potential will be well worth the risks and efforts . 

BTS is not growing rapidly is not because we don't have enough worker dilution to pay for this and that .
It's because despite of having a suppose "high pay market salary" daily in their respective jobs , developers still feels like if you don't take BTS from the system fast enough and sell it fast enough , the ship may not be there, and it will be stupid to buy BTS with actual money while the price is low to bet on the potential of its future like the rest of the market participants.

If you trust your work will be beneficial to BTS, buy it more than the ordinary folks who have no such "in sight", hold it , develop your work , and enjoy more potentials than the ones who are not aware of the huge significance of your work.  if you are thinking about risks , sorry , that means all the talk about your work's value is pure fiction. 

Imagine if Bitcoin miners were to ask at day one to be compensated for their mining cost and guaranteed  income, will Bitcoin be where it is today ?

The same goes to witness who want to be compensated for providing a good price feed

Those are some interesting observations.. but they have nothing to do with my assertion that if you want to have any kind of professional trading going on Bitshares then we better have reliable feed data. Witnesses are not the source of that data. They can only provide as good as what is available. Taking a median of a few free sources that can and do come and go works sometimes but not all the time, and that is the issue.

I'm calling for raising the bar... I think everyone might have even forgotten when 2.0 launched that bytemaster talked about the need for more feed providers. He envisioned it as being another element in the network that would be a paid opportunity, similar to how being a hosted wallet provider was supposed to be.

Nobody ever created one though. So 'good enough' became the montra for what few free datafeeds are available. Now though, nobody would dream of creating such a service because the response would be similar to this volunteerism expectation of providing critical always on data to the price feeds.

I think what bitcrab is getting at is that witness's should provide a quality robust price feed.  They are being paid by the blockchain to produce blocks and provide a reliable feed. Providing this reliable feed is well within the scope and responsibility of the witness and shouldn't be subsidized by a worker proposal.

That said, I know feeds for assets can be expensive.  Right now, a witness would run at a net loss if they were to subscribe to a professional price feed like Bloomberg.

The witness's that can find a balance between robustness and cost effectiveness of the price feeds are going to be the ones that get and stay elected.

Witnesses are NOT paid to produce feeds... it is an ongoing expense to witnesses. Some do not publish as often as others as a result.

If you want to have 'reliable feeds' then what I am saying is relying on free sources is by no means reliable. Those that are using a few other sources are by no means providing real 'robustness' to the network. It is paper thin now even with others publishing. So we have a choice to make. We continue to treat bitassets like a hobby, or get them to a level that is robust and reliable.

I am proposing a fix instead of a bandaide in my estimation.

In the interim I am going to stop publishing CNY as suggested and following suit with other witnesses until there are enough reliable markets available to support it.

today a man made margin call happened again for bitCNY, about 50K bitCNY margin called, someone did price manipulation just by selling a little quantity of BTS in yunbi.

proxy bitcrab decided to unvote below witnesses, until they implement professional enough bitCNY price feeding.
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato rnglab datasecuritynode

don't tell me btc38 always fail to provide price, don't ask me how to generate good price feed, you are witnesses, you should find ways to make that done.

Note - datasecuritynode wasn't being voted for by your proxy before anyway.

I would suggest we create a worker proposal to gain access to more price feed data rather than continuing to rely on bottom of the barrel free data. Vote for it?

Quote from: kenCode on December 29, 2016, 02:36:46 pm

@vikram or @Agent86 can we have a status update please? I emailed you but no reply, I hope you guys are well.
 
We are paying you about 300,000 BTS per month and I do not see any github commits for ~2.5 months now:
 
https://github.com/vikramrajkumar
https://github.com/vikramrajkumar/dotfiles/commits/master
https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-2/
 
I know R&D can take some time, but we voted for "soledger" because you are already experienced with Bitshares, so could move things along quickly.
Weekly updates would be really nice please, even if it is just a few sentences.
 
There is a lot of work to be done:
https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc

Replying to your email right after this Ken. Sorry for the delay I've been mostly offline between Christmas and New Years.

To be clear, since my initial work in November, I have nothing to report for December. Lance and I ended up heavily focusing on our internal Soledger project this past month.

In January, I intend to switch gears and make progress on BTS including making up for December. As I mentioned in my previous update, the primary thing I am considering next is to update fc with upstream patches from steemit/fc.

In the long term I think this is important to do because at present, fc has problems building with newer versions of the Boost library as well as with the Clang compiler. As time goes on, I want to avoid compatibility issues like this preventing people from building/developing BTS in newer system environments.

Again, this will require alot of care to avoid including for example changes to JSON serialization to avoid changing the BTS API. The Boost compatibility upgrade is also specifically a major change and will require more analysis to see the feasibility of it working with BTS. I've had some discussion with @modprobe (https://github.com/nathanhourt) and he is also interested in an upgraded fc for the compatibility reasons I mentioned.

I will also review the issue tracker for low-hanging fruit. To reiterate however, the scope of this worker is focused on administration and essential maintenance as described in the OP and my later reply https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23495.msg300215.html#msg300215, so I think monthly (rather than weekly) status updates strike a good balance. If anyone is running into specific bugs that are preventing them from doing something please let me know.

All that being said I am open to any feedback from you guys. Happy new years all.

You should be aware @vikram that today you were voted out due to lack of activity.

Just making you aware in case you are not watching.

asking for a friend:

So since the BTS snapshot day , he has done no operation regarding peerplay. How should he get his sharedroped peerplay in the future ?

Please review our original announcement:

http://www.peerplays.com/news/bts-snapshot-date/

What is a Snapshot section answers your question.

This looks closer to 20m BTS lost!

Quick.. someone create a prediction market on what the hacker is going to do with it!

this happened  many times, the price wrong more then 10%.
every time I point this out, the answer is why you think your price is correct and mine is wrong?
so I just cancel my vote for these witness.

thanks bitcrab, I will remove these witness this time:
spectral delegate-clayop bhuz bue delegate.ihashfury spartako fox elmato datasecuritynode

                "CNY" : {
                    "metric" : "weighted",
                    "sources" : ["btc38",
                                 "yunbi",
                                 "huobi",
                                 "btcchina",
                                 "okcoin",
                                 ]

All of these are enabled on datasecuritynode.. problem is only one of them is responding at the moment. I think the others will chime in soon enough on this matter when they see the same I did.

This is the first time *I* have seen where only one was responding like this. I appreciate the attention given to explaining things, but the conclusions made in assuming that witnesses have chosen to "just get" one source is outright presumptuous and false.

@alt  I never had your vote before so not sure why you are saying now you are removing your vote for datasecuritynode. I think this seems a bit over the top... not to mention all those witnesses are long time trusted ones. This whole thread of single source feed accusations is really what is the disappointing result from this test.

How about a simple note at the end asking witnesses to check their feeds instead? Here instead we find false accusations and others claiming to vote them out. Not to mention the thread title is insulting as well. Again, not helpful. Appreciate all you guys do, but this could have been handled better.

Oh, there is a telegram witness channel that could have been used too.. instead of the public display.. you have access to it and could have directly contacted the witnesses in question. Instead a public post to bring about less public confidence? Really? Could have been handled better.

Quote from: yvv on December 19, 2016, 01:15:27 pm

Whole idea that a company can be managed by a crowd of shareholders is utopia, because shareholders don't understand a shit about how a company works. In real world, companies are ran by experts. Voting exists to collect input from shareholders, and based on this input, experts make their educated decisions. Bitshares proved that crowd can't manage nothing.

We have proxies for that .. call them managers if you like

True...