Quote from: Buck Fankers on March 10, 2016, 08:42:49 am

Quote from: mf-tzo on March 10, 2016, 08:02:36 am

I don't think our DEX is not user friendly as it is. I think it is quite easy to use and this is coming from a person whose IT skills are like a 10 year's old..but anyway..

Unfortunately I disagree. I used it for the first time in a while recently and it was displeasing to put it nicely. The # of xxx.BTC's was confusing as hell. I thought the OPEN.ETH/BTC market was with OPEN.BTC and the OPEN was just left off for some reason. So I got screwed over swapping METAEX.BTC to OPEN.BTC only to find out there was another one that's just BTC (not to mention another one called OPENBTC with no period) and it can only be purchased on the DEX with BTS at an outrageously high price. Trying to sell was frustrating as well, but I won't get into that as I'm sure with more experience using it will solve the issues I experienced. But I'm not a first time user of the DEX and frankly I probably won't be using it again or at least it will not be my first, second or third choice. It was just a bad experience all around, I hate to say it, but frankly I'm really disappointed and think it needs to be said, no offense, just keeping it real. I like to get in/out, not have to investigate where a certain asset pair is, hunt it down, hope I have the right ones, find out I don't and lose money in the process. It needs some serious work and a facelift big time. I was really expecting a lot better experience and left feeling like I got scammed by misleading pairs. I was only dealing with small change here because there's no way I'd put any real amount of money on there out of fear I'd get screwed again making a mistake with xxx.BTC or thinking an order went through only to find out later it didn't. Sorry to be a "Negative Nancy". I know saying anything other than "great job!" does not go over well here. =/

Yep.  The DEX needs to make itself look exactly like Poloniex.  Imitate whats working or die.

The Poloniex DEX is nothing special... it's actually very limited.  Pro traders would think you are joking if you told them that was the interface you were trading on and expected them to trade on.  It just happens to be a popular site with a very small niche group of extremely novice retail traders...

Settling for that basic interface would be a big mistake imo...  Just because there is a troll box doesn't make it a good platform.

Real platforms have interactive charts, script editors, more than 4 indicators and so much more.... Polo has none of that.

Quote from: lil_jay890 on March 10, 2016, 04:27:35 am

So dumb question... What advantages does Azure give to bitshares other than being associated with the Microsoft name?  Is Azure BaaS a market place?  Can people develop for BTS through Azure?

The general idea of the BaaS is that when some company is looking to build a blockchain they can shop through Azure and spin one up.

As far as the crypto-traders are concerns though.. another reason to buy on the hype and sell on the news.

Thanks Data,

So will Microsoft have any affiliation with BTS?  or is this kind of like the Craig's List of blockchain business's?  Are they trying to promote business's building on top of one of the blockchain's within the Azure offering?

Quote from: lil_jay890 on March 10, 2016, 12:35:38 am

I've day traded for 10 years and I would never trade on our Dex in its current form.  It doesn't have the most basic tools that traders need.

You have to shout out loud, which exactly tools you need as a trader. We all should listen.

I've been shouting for a while... here's a post from a few weeks ago...

The biggest thing is shorting.  It's crazy confusing and sets up as a terrible risk reward scenario.  Maybe a script can be used to simplify what is actually going on, but I could talk to 10 traders about shorting on the DEX and all 10 would say its complex and nerve racking.

For a while now people have been trying to figure out why there is so little trading volume on the DEX.  I've traded forex and stocks for over 10 years and have written dozens of trading bots (Expert Advisors) in the mql language.  I've turned $2,500 into $50,000 in 6 months.  I've also turned $50,000 into $20,000 in 6 months as well. I think I have a pretty good idea of what traders need and expect from a platform.

1. Shorting in the DEX is cumbersome and confusing
I recently tried to short using the DEX.  I borrowed CNY and then sold that CNY for BTS.  I ended up getting margin called as BTS fell in price.  I'm ok with being wrong about a position, but I'm very confused with the mechanics of how this happened.  I also had no idea what my position was worth throughout the trade, and I'm not even entirely sure how much I lost.  Shorting needs to be streamlined and simplified.  The borrow/sell thing is too many steps and not knowing the positions value during the trade is borderline scary.

2.Is there a way to put a stop loss or take profit order?
Because right now I can't figure out how to do it.  This means there is no money management ability.  Without the ability to manage a trade, the DEX is unusable for serious traders.  There needs to be at a minim stop loss orders.  There really should be a way to put trailing stops in as well.

3.Indicators are shaky at best
Right now there are 4 indicators and 2 of them are moving averages.  The RSI doesn't appear to be working as the only reading I see on the more liquid markets are 100, 50, or 0.  It looks like an EKG witch tells me something isn't working correctly.  Not all traders use indicators, but many do.

These are just basic GUI things that are preventing traders from using the DEX.  It doesn't even include the inability to use leverage.  Just fixing the 3 things above will bring much more utility and liquidity to the dex.  I will guarantee it.  The people that originally designed the DEX were not traders.  They thought poloniex was a good interface to base their platform on.  Unfortunately, poloniex is not a good platform.  A professional trader would never use Poloniex.  Poloniex's platform is modeled off some cheap retail trading platform.

How do we fix this??
Right now we are consumed by petty fee debates and if we should keep calling ourselves DPOS.  These things are not that important right now.  It's not what will drive mainstream traders to the BTS platform.  What is needed is A PLUGIN FOR METATRADER 4.  While it isn't the most sophisticated trading platform, it's the most widely used and known.  It's also light years ahead of the current DEX.  What I propose is that instead of @dannotestein and blocktrades using a worker proposal to fix basic blockchain bugs, rather is work on creating a plugin for MT4.  They are already an exchange and have a good understanding of BTS.  I know it's not as easy as fixing "bad coding techniques", but getting this plugin for BTS would do more to improve the market cap and utility than anything else.

Quote from: Akado on March 09, 2016, 02:34:18 pm

You should have filmed it to expose this. You always have your history though, take a few prints if you don't mind and compare it with the highest price at that time. Do you have any way of proving this?

I opened a ticket to see if they admit it before I expose it with evidences.
They certainly have all the open orders history (when putted, canceled etc.)
I am wondering how they will explain it... well, we will see...

They likelihood of them pumping eth for your order is extremely small.  Were you trying to short ETH or just sell your holdings?  Also what type of order did you use?  If someone came in with a large buy order to take up a good amount of the order book (ie above your price), the platform may just be trying to fill his order at the same price.  You would have gotten filled at no worse than your original limit price if this was the case.

Highly doubt it is collusion or manipulation.  That would be way to high risk for them to do.

People are apprehensive about paying for marketing ever since Brian page fucked us.  Not saying that pay for marketing wouldn't work, but the last attempt set bts back massively.  It was false promise after false promise.

We also paid delegates like method-x to do marketing, in which he did absolutely nothing.

Fool me once, shame one you. Fool me twice shame on me. Fool me three times, kick me in the balls and tell me not to be so dumb.

Well that was a fun pump... They are getting shorter and smaller each time.

Would it make sense to integrate this in BitShares and pay via worker proposal or do you think this should be something a 3rd party service should add themselves in order to have advantage over the competition?

Doing it for BitShares might be faster and attract more people
Having a 3rd party doing it saves shareholders money but we dont know if we are ever going to have someone implement this

Any idea on how much this would cost? @monsterer

I'm unsure what the trading fee's are now since the recent changes.  I thought the only way to make this work would be to use the referral program.  Now that fees are so low it seems extremely difficult to make a profit.

I'm guessing by the time we purchase the license and do all the programming to integrate MT4 it would be 150-200k.

A profitable way to do MT4 would be for a 3rd party to offer the platform and be the counterparty for their clients trades (90% of retail forex traders lose money) and widen the spread slightly higher than what DEX actually is a pocket the spread.  If a client takes on a large enough position, the broker could then hedge using the actual DEX and passing the order there instead of being the sole counterparty.  This approach would be very profitable for the broker, but only minimally beneficial for the BTS ecosystem.

Thats why it would be great if the referral program could be used as the profit generator instead of spread manipulation.  All the trading could be done directly with the DEX instead of the broker.

There is a reason why I really like the term "Rate limited Free Transactions" and the reason is that it contains only very simple words. As you have probably noticed I am not a English native speaker. That gives me additional perspective, which I believe I share with most people on the world for which English is not a native language.

There is a great website http://www.wordcount.org/ where you can check the rank of English words based on the frequency in which they are appear in a real language.

For example words from "Proof of Work" have ranks:

Proof - 3435

of - 2

Work - 103


So I consider term "Proof of Work" as quite simple.

What about "Rate Limited Free Transactions"?

Rate - 500
Limited - 984
Free - 449
Transactions - 4094

So... the worst rank in that case has a word "Transactions", which I think we cannot avoid to properly describe our feature. Besides "Transactions" worst rank is only 984.

What about "Transactions for shareholders"
Transactions - 4094
for - 12
shareholders - 3101

As you can see, shareholder is not a not very commonly use words. Besides... term "shareholders" is not very commonly used in cryptocurrency world. The reason for that is... because most of the world do not think about Bitcoin as a company. Of course Bitshares introduced DAC concept, but still it is not commonly used term.

Quote from: MarkoPaasila on March 03, 2016, 10:07:23 am

How about Zero fee transactions?

In that case rank is:
Zero - 3895
Fee - 3251
Transactions - 4094

But the whole problem with that term is... that in my opinion it says nothing that you have to do something to have a possibility to make a free transactions (you have to have a stake)... or it not warns you that you that there is some limit for performing free transactions.

Quote from: tbone on March 03, 2016, 07:35:43 am

Perhaps something like "stake-weighted free transactions" would be more easily understood by most people.

This term is great in a describing how this actually is implemented. But in my opinion it is too technical.

Rank:
Stake - 4107
weighted - 1227
Free - 449
Transactions - 4094

and... I have no information about conjunctions of words "stake-weighted"

And.. in my opinion stake-weighted term stands to close to mathematical concept of "weighted arithmetic mean"... which I guess a lot of people heard of in school, but I think it was not the favourite thing on math lessons in school for most of the world

In summary:

"Rate Limited Free Transactions" for sure is not the best, but in my opinion it says a lot in a very simple way.

Good job with actually backing up your reasons with numbers.  I also like "Rate limited free transactions".  I think it will appeal and be understood by the broadest amount of people.