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Messages - luckybit

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106
General Discussion / Re: Should Bitshares get into the XXX industry?
« on: December 16, 2015, 04:01:03 am »
Quote from: JonnyBitcoin on December 16, 2015, 03:40:06 am
make the bitUSD peg reliable and the xxx industry will adopt bitshares.

I don't think you get what opportunity Bitshares offers. Profit sharing in the form of UIAs, and self issued credit in the form of UIAs. There is no real reason I can see to bother with the bitUSD peg. Value can be stored as IOUs which are redeemable at the XXX business with no real need for bitUSD although I do see how you could say bitUSD could promote smart coins.

Profit sharing on the other hand would mean anyone in the community could buy a share in the business similar to the examples above. It would require of course that everyone could be trusted, it would have to be extremely safe as a business, but then the profits could flow.

Additionally, the possibility of FBA, suppose XXX is a success and it leads to new forms of smart contracts in the future? I would say though, we should not promote bitUSD for one because who says they'll be Americans and also when you promote one particular smart coin you bring nationalism into it when the only thing that would matter is that there is a stable store of value.

UIAs offer a store of value which are just as stable as smart coins. A UIA which represents a basket of vouchers from different centralized companies for example bio-fuel energy tokens, or Starbucks, and you have a stable store of value in the form of a UIA which would be as good as bitUSD.


107
General Discussion / Should Bitshares get into the XXX industry?
« on: December 16, 2015, 03:28:54 am »
If done right the risk would be considerably lower than gambling or drugs. The risk would be that the individuals involved could be arrested.

Anyway I saw this: http://www.cottontailgroup.com/ & http://www.cottontailgroup.com/maison-lechat-first-house/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-AAMWrKcrM
@fav
@bytemaster
@fuzzy
@xeroc
@cass
@alt


It would seem that this would be a good test case if people want to protest in a safe way as it's a victimless crime in most cases and most people don't think it should be illegal. Of course if it is illegal in your part of the world then I would recommend you don't break the law and let people who are in places where it's legal take the risks.




108
General Discussion / Re: Department of Homeland Security Calls for Blockchain Research
« on: December 16, 2015, 02:40:25 am »
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/14/brit_spookhaus_gchq_creates_github_repo_offers_graph_database/

109
General Discussion / Department of Homeland Security Calls for Blockchain Research
« on: December 15, 2015, 09:23:31 am »
Quote
The US cabinet department is now accepting research proposals from small businesses in 13 topic areas, including the "Applicability of Blockchain Technology to Privacy Respecting Identity Management" and "Blockchain Applications for Homeland Security Analytics"

@bytemaster @Stan
https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/sbir
http://www.coindesk.com/department-of-homeland-security-calls-for-blockchain-research/

110
General Discussion / Re: CoinDesk's Most Influential People in Bitcoin and Blockchain in 2015
« on: December 14, 2015, 06:05:23 pm »
Quote from: Globally Distributed on December 14, 2015, 03:49:47 am
Quote from: twitter on December 14, 2015, 03:31:35 am
BM is not a candidate :P :P :P :P :P :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

CoinDesk's Most Influential People in Bitcoin and Blockchain in 2015
 
  Mike Hearn, R3
 Blythe Masters, Digital Asset Holdings
 Andreas M. Antonopoulos
 Balaji Srinivasan, 21
 Roger Ver, Bitcoin.com
 Elizabeth Rossiello, Bitpesa
 Greg Maxwell, Adam Back and the Blockstream team
 Tim Swanson, R3
 Vitalik Buterin, Ethereum
 Wences Casares, Xapo
 Nick Szabo, Independent

http://www.coindesk.com/vote-2015s-most-influential-bitcoin-blockchain/

bm has the industry's rockstar potential but doesn't do enough publicity to make the list.  but then again bm's got a lot going bitshares, identabit, graphene, plasma - eventually the market will speak about bm's accomplishments louder than popularity contests.

that said, bitshares could benefit from some public face ...


That list is the most POWERFUL PEOPLE in Bitcoin. It's got nothing to do with how good of a developer you are and more to do with how much political power you have.

Bytemaster is not very good at politics.

111
General Discussion / Re: Sneakers
« on: December 14, 2015, 05:48:51 pm »
It's not a secret at all actually. Anyone who is into fashion at all would know about this.

112
General Discussion / Re: The Most Secure Messaging On Earth (Fee Backed Asset)
« on: December 14, 2015, 05:35:17 pm »
@bytemaster

Here is the source code: https://github.com/davidlazar/vuvuzela

Elucidate what you can from it.

113
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Dice FBA
« on: December 14, 2015, 04:45:10 pm »
http://lottoshares.com/

114
General Discussion / Re: Free App possible?
« on: December 14, 2015, 05:40:59 am »
Quote from: roadscape on December 11, 2015, 04:55:04 pm
The primary ways to monetize/support a social network:

1. ads (sponsors)
2. paid features / subscriptions
3. selling users' data
4. donations

You forgot about the attention economy? You simply let advertisers buy the attention directly from the users. Synereo has a good business model, as does GetGems.

You can't use the ad model on decentralized platforms without violating people's intellectual property rights, specifically their attention is their property.

So the way to monetize it is to build enough of a network effect that advertisers will want to access the attention of the users, then pay the users in your UIA when they watch ads. Pre-allocate the UIA to pay for your own development.

115
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Dice FBA
« on: December 14, 2015, 03:00:05 am »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 13, 2015, 11:58:20 pm
Quote from: bytemaster on December 13, 2015, 10:59:48 pm
The challenge with gambling is that it exposes the developers of the software to more risk than just about any other thing we could write.

Thanks for the reply, completely understandable but obviously a pity.

This might not be relevant, I don't speak code, but it seems Vitalik is writing gambling related code for Ethereum...

https://m.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3kwsaf/if_you_are_going_to_be_building_gambling_sites/

https://github.com/ethereum/dapp-bin/blob/master/serpent_gamble/prepare.py

I guess the difference is it's then up to third parties to implement it.

Vitalik can get away with that because Ethereum is general purpose. Bitshares is specifically a financial platform though and mixing gambling and finance in the same interface is crazy stupid.

Why not integrate Silk Road into the interface so high frequency traders can keep up their supply of cocaine?

Sometimes it's just not worth it to build something directly on Bitshares or to have the developers associated with certain things. It's not that I'm against gambling but I just think if you want gambling there is a DAC Play blockchain specifically set up to take on these sorts of risks. I don't see why all risk should be centralized on Bitshares if Bitshares is the most critical blockchain, the mother blockchain.

Why not take the risks on the chains which were set up specifically for these sorts of experiments?


Here is the law in China
Quote
Whoever, for the purpose of profit, gathers people to engage in gambling, runs a gambling house or makes gambling his profession shall be sentenced to fixed-term imprisonment of not more than three years, criminal detention or public surveillance and shall also be fined.

Is it worth killing Bitshares in China? China is the main market for Bitshares and you want to poison that market with gambling so regulators can have every excuse they need to go after witnesses and even users?

Unlike Ethereum which is general purpose and have many types of apps, Bitshares is only finance, and as soon as you associate it with gambling you make it very easy to ban. If those associations are to be made, why would you want to have the core developers make that association by building a casino right beside the stock market?

Imagine you're some Chinese politician or regulator and you're using Bitshares for the first time, introduced to Bitshares because of crowd funding or the stocks, and you see a casino built into it? It's one thing to have an ad for a casino which is a separate third party operation, but it's something else completely to build it into the interface itself. If it must be decentralized, use the DAC Play blockchain and then put the UIA on Bitshares so people can buy it through Bitshares.

Also remember Lottoshares? If it's such a big demand then why aren't people using that?
http://www.onlinebetting.com/legal/china/


In order to reduce risks on the developers, witnesses and the blockchain itself all of the topics below should be avoided:

1. Drugs or controlled substances
2. Gambling
3. Bribery
4. Dealing in obscene matter

If individuals want to take their chances with these non-violent but clearly fronwd upon activities then they can create a UIA and do so as a third party (this way the risk is entirely on the people who want to take it). There is no need for a FBA or to bring the whole blockchain into their experiment because by doing that you also spread risk and potentially infect the whole blockchain with police investigations.

Gambling isn't likely to make Bitshares have a 100 billion dollar market cap. If a casino were such a good idea then you'd be using the DAC Play blockchain, or Lottoshares, or Lottoshares, or any of the others. My guess is a casino done they way you'd be thinking about doing it would bring only risks, it wouldn't better the world in any kind of way, or advance liberty in any kind of way, so it's not like prediction markets which actually have some purpose.

Of course I'm not the decision maker, the community is. It's very possible that the majority in the community either don't live in a country like China, or they don't live in the USA, so they might think it's a good idea to do it.  I just hope if they go into it that they realize there are cops who don't have anything better to do but to investigate stuff like that.

116
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Dice FBA
« on: December 14, 2015, 02:56:29 am »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 13, 2015, 09:32:45 pm
Quote from: luckybit on December 13, 2015, 08:54:04 pm
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 13, 2015, 07:14:44 pm
Quote from: luckybit on December 13, 2015, 06:50:17 pm
I would prefer to see cannabis commodities and assets than to see blatant gambling because it only will take away from the legitimate features like prediction markets. If someone does want to do a dice type feature why not just make it external to Bitshares or use DAC Play?

Prediction markets will offer sports betting which is 'blatant gambling' and that is going to ruffle a whole lot more feathers than dice.

Quote
Augur may become the greatest gambling platform in history

...Augur is destined to become the cypherpunks answer to gambling prohibition—the betting man’s version of the online drug market Silk Road...

Augur also serves the less high-minded—though no less noble—purpose of providing cost savings and convenience to gamblers. Restrictions on gambling serve to protect government revenue at the betting man's expense. State-sanctioned casino operators pay high taxes, and state-run lotteries fleece their customers. But there's no logical or moral case for government restrictions on gambling, since no third party is harmed when consenting adults wager money on the future. Augur actually has the potential to make the world safer by taking away market share in the gambling industry from criminals.


https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/11/augur-gambling-prediction-ethereum

There is a huge difference between dice which is blatant gambling and prediction markets. Prediction markets are more than just gambling because you can analyze a prediction market to get truly valuable information.

You get nothing of value from analyzing dice. Dice is just gambling, it's literally junk information, it's junk food. Why should we sell junk food when we can sell gourmet food in our restaurant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futarchy

Yes you can ask some interesting questions via prediction markets, but their bread and butter will be 90% sports betting where the demand is, so there will be no sugar coating that whatever platform offers prediction markets is among other things a blatant gambling platform.

Do you not see the heat daily fantasy betting is getting in the US at the moment?
http://voiceherald.com/2015/12/13/fantasy-sport-sites-stay-open-despite-illegal-gambling.html

At the same time DraftKings are willing to take the risk because they like dollar, dollar bills y'all....

Quote
"Global opportunity for online betting and casino market estimated at $27 (billion) now, $36B by 2018," one slide in DraftKings' presentation said. Another noted that "sports wagering" was a large potential market, with one estimate "that illegal sports wagers are as much as $380 billion annually."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/critics-say-ny-evidence-suggests-fantasy-sports-sites-consider-themselves/2257426

I'm all for prediction markets too, but they're going to take the same if not more heat than other forms of gambling.

How are you going to predict the future (how a prediction market will be used) without a prediction market?

117
General Discussion / Re: STEALTH / BTS Market now accepting bids.
« on: December 13, 2015, 09:01:39 pm »
Quote from: Stan on December 13, 2015, 03:44:56 am
Quote from: Akado on December 13, 2015, 12:39:11 am
So this will just be some kind of experience to see how it goes? Meaning, Stealth will go forward, paid by onceuponatime and then if this test goes right, this same method will be applied to the other planned features you listed on the other thread like bond markets, prediction markets, gambling, etc?

More than just an experiment.
Stealth is a trailblazer, but a more general test case is under way.
Cryptonomex will sponsor some of its own features in parallel.
But others (investors and developers) are encouraged to join in (individually and as groups).
And some have already indicated their intent to do exactly that.
May a thousand variants bloom.

Someone has to outline the process for creating one of these markets. How much does it cost us to create?

118
Meta / Re: (Poll) Should there be a Formal Process for Assigning Forum Moderators?
« on: December 13, 2015, 08:58:58 pm »
We should have a forum UIA and whomever earns the most tips in that UIA can become a moderator.

119
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Dice FBA
« on: December 13, 2015, 08:54:04 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 13, 2015, 07:14:44 pm
Quote from: luckybit on December 13, 2015, 06:50:17 pm
I would prefer to see cannabis commodities and assets than to see blatant gambling because it only will take away from the legitimate features like prediction markets. If someone does want to do a dice type feature why not just make it external to Bitshares or use DAC Play?

Prediction markets will offer sports betting which is 'blatant gambling' and that is going to ruffle a whole lot more feathers than dice.

Quote
Augur may become the greatest gambling platform in history

...Augur is destined to become the cypherpunks answer to gambling prohibition—the betting man’s version of the online drug market Silk Road...

Augur also serves the less high-minded—though no less noble—purpose of providing cost savings and convenience to gamblers. Restrictions on gambling serve to protect government revenue at the betting man's expense. State-sanctioned casino operators pay high taxes, and state-run lotteries fleece their customers. But there's no logical or moral case for government restrictions on gambling, since no third party is harmed when consenting adults wager money on the future. Augur actually has the potential to make the world safer by taking away market share in the gambling industry from criminals.


https://reason.com/blog/2015/08/11/augur-gambling-prediction-ethereum

There is a huge difference between dice which is blatant gambling and prediction markets. Prediction markets are more than just gambling because you can analyze a prediction market to get truly valuable information.

You get nothing of value from analyzing dice. Dice is just gambling, it's literally junk information, it's junk food. Why should we sell junk food when we can sell gourmet food in our restaurant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futarchy

120
General Discussion / Re: BitShares Dice FBA
« on: December 13, 2015, 06:56:38 pm »
Quote from: Empirical1.2 on December 13, 2015, 01:58:50 pm

In terms of profit potential blockchain based dice would the most investable FBA imo.


Prediction markets are equally profitable with a lot less risk. Prediction markets solve real world problems and you can make a cause for many good uses for prediction markets. Gambling is not the same and gambling only exists to trick one group of people out of their money for the benefit of the holders of the asset.

The statistics, the odds, they almost always benefit the house, the casino, etc. Additionally one of the only companies to be attacked by the SEC happened to be Satoshi Dice, so why would anyone want to bring that particular attention onto Bitshares?

My opinion, gambling should not ever be an official feature. Gambling and prediction markets in the same interface, on the same platform, diminish the viability of both. If you're trying to promote prediction markets while some other group of people is trying to promote Bitshares as a casino, how are you supposed to disassociate prediction markets from gambling?

And they could then say Bitshares is just one big casino and how would you prove it isn't if you're treating it like a casino yourself? There are few ideas that I hate but I hate this idea to bring gambling onto Bitshares. It would offer no benefit that you couldn't get from actual markets, but it would bring all the risks that Bitshares is trying to avoid. It's like selling junk food in a high class gourmet restaurant.

In my opinion, all gambling should happen on DAC Play, the gaming platform specifically for not so serious stuff. You don't want to mix currency trading, stocks, gambling, with prediction markets and all of this other stuff in the same app because marketing wise and politically it's a mess. If I could vote against this FBA I would.

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