As bitshares shareholder i will never open/use steem, thats the reason i cant participate.

Actually the direct link to the survey was posted on this thread (my original post); no need to go to steemit at all.

Any new insights from this survey?

I haven't had the time to present the data lately, I'll announce here and on steemit when I do (at some point next week, I think - kind of a busy period irl atm)

So I took it once more to look at shorting in Bitshares today.

I must say I'm slightly confused 

Let's take NZD as an example.

Feed price: 138.082 BTS/bitNZD
Margin Call Price: 151.8902 BTS/bitNZD

Ok. So, from the beginning, we have to lock up some BTS as collateral (>= 1.95x) in case the BTS loses value against NZD.

The higher the collateral ratio, the higher the margin call price.


So far so good.

I then tried to sell my newly minted smartcoins to another account of mine, naively thinking that would settle the original debt (by getting rid of the smartcoins, I wondered if some automatic action would be taken).

It didn't - which, if I understand correctly, means that someone, somewhere, must be perpetually in debt in order for any smartcoin to be in circulation?


Fine, I then tried to close the position: no luck, I needed the 10 smartcoins I'd just sold to the other account.

Transferred them back, clicked "Close position", the smartcoins disappeared, I got all of my BTS back.

The total supply of CHF and NZD (where I ran the tests) shrinked back to what it was originally.



So even if I wanted to offer some limited liquidity, that would always mean making a bet that BTS would appreciate against the smartcoin, perpetually.

And here's the mind-boggling part: let's say I shorted 1000 NZD into existence, and by the grace of .. doge, BTS did move favorably against NZD.

I now have (let's say) 200 NZD in my pocket! Wow! So I close position and that's that, I have 200 NZD in my wallet, debt-free.


.... why not simply hold the BTS, avoid locking up 1.95x the amount, go into debt, and change the BTS for BTC or something less volatile ?


ELI5 please.

I'm not sure that there should ever be a reason for anyone to be able to "call home" everyone's bitUSD.

Quote from: EstefanTT on September 14, 2016, 01:24:07 pm

You forget that smartcoins uses collateral in BTS. The need for stable crypto asset will rise and these markets will grow.
BlockPay will probably help with that.
Each BitUSD is 2$ locked in BTS.
One million BitUSD in circulation means 2 millions $ in BTS bought. How much do you think the bts price would increase with ppl buying for 2 million $ of BTS ?

The plateform is perfect for creating all kind of index, baskets, ... which will also contribute at locking more collateral.

With a good commercialisation, I'm conffident that bittwenty could bring signigicant value to BTS.

The referral system may also take off later when we reach critical mass. That will also bring more fees.

Stealth transfers will also bring more fee to the system.

The other features still to be implemented ( as the bond market ) will also produce lots of fees.

There is also the unknows. Anytime, a new company can implement itself on top of BitShares and develop a new feature using the FBA.

IMO, your view on the BTS potential is too pessimistic.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

So here is the problem... You need to find people willing to create bitUSD.  No one has figured it out yet.  The only reason to do that would be that you think the value of BTS will rise vs bitUSD.  If BTS guaranteed you part of the profits, the value of BTS would go up.  This is how stocks work, the value generally increases as the companies profits increase.

Unfortunately there is no real plan to make BTS profitable.  The governance is poor and decisions on fee's are often deadlocked.  A lot of what you have in your post would be great to have (bond market, stealth, referral system) but the referral system was killed and the bond market is barely and idea in someones head.  I know blockpay is working on stealth, but they are going to be the ones reaping the fee rewards.  Exactly why I'm saying it's the companies who use the BTS platform that will get rich.  Not the BTS shareholders.  BTS shareholders are basically securing the companies blockchain transactions for free.  Not a profitable business model.

I'm not saying the potential of the BTS platform is bleak.  I'm saying if you are a BTS shareholder, the potential of the token value increasing is bleak.

Surely, all other things being equal, if there is more real-world usage of the platform (which also means people are trading/spending/hodling smartcoins), there has to be more collateral locked up, which means a higher BTS/FIAT price.

To the best of my present understanding, the above is irrefutable.

If so, we need to think what sort of initiatives can bring a wider range of users into the system.

I have some ideas, but don't see any of them taking off until we have STEALTH - it could be my bias, though, but me personally, I'm not going to be paying for anything with Smartcoins that's tied to anything in my name, that's a tool of oppression and not a tool of liberation.

As for bringing more traders in, I have a really hard time believing the platform will be attractive without, at least, stop-loss orders.

Stop-profit would also be nice.

I think those two are severely under-rated as a reason for serious traders avoiding bitshares right now.

What do you guys think? @svk @fuzzy @pc @kenCode @Chris4210 @chryspano @ripplexiaoshan

Besides being an interesting asset, we could organize some heavy publicity around the launch of this smartcoin - the only place in the crypto-space where mere mortals can hodl and trade with XDR.

It will definitely give Bitshares some attention.

p.s, offtopic: anyone knows why we have no bitZAR?

@xeroc, what do you think?