Author Topic: Proposal to Resolve a Million Issues at Once  (Read 69114 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile


My Bitshares X t-shirt will be a collectors item one day !

Allah Akbar !

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline bytemaster

They wouldn't be getting into BTSX cheap.... given the same money buying PTS or BTSX will result in an equal stake at the end of the day (assuming efficient markets)... any PTS bump would be irrational.

Hmm, I guess you are right. Okay, so then what about not crediting DNS, VOTE, and NOTE? Is it that the shareholders of those DACs are similar enough to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders that we aren't worried about market fragmentation by keeping those DACs independent and acting as "competition".

DNS / VOTE had the same snapshot.
Not talking about honoring the 30% for FMV.
NOTE is independent and will be a competitor...

So we are only talking about:
1) users who bought DNS after the snapshot and new DNS issued
2) NOTES issued via their presale...

I think the primary issue people are concerned about is where my time and energy will be devoted... to a lesser extent where toast is focused... and to an even lesser extent where notes and vote are focused. 

We cannot fix everyone (sometimes you make a bet and lose)...
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Pheonike

So to encourage pole to stay we offering option based vested time period.

Offline bytemaster

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

pollux

  • Guest
Right now there is market demand for $5 million PTS and $50 million BTSX.... if these were two companies that "merged" the new company would likely have a value greater than the sum of their parts... rarely would the combined value go down.   

If you are referring to changing from "fixed supply" to dilution via delegates.... that is something that BTSX community will have to decide.   If someone wants to start a clone with the original 2B limit... then they can.  Follow the network effect is all I have to say.

Part of why I am not in favor of diluting for PTS/AGS stake is that I think PTS is overvalued at current rate. Maybe I'm naive for selling my PTS assuming there would be no "bail out" for its problems.

The merger metaphor is a bit broken as well. If we want to merge, shouldn't we merge with #1? I'd much prefer to give 1-10% new BTSX to BTC holders at a snapshot date.

Offline arhag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
    • View Profile
    • My posts on Steem
  • BitShares: arhag
  • GitHub: arhag
They wouldn't be getting into BTSX cheap.... given the same money buying PTS or BTSX will result in an equal stake at the end of the day (assuming efficient markets)... any PTS bump would be irrational.

Hmm, I guess you are right. Okay, so then what about not crediting DNS, VOTE, and NOTE? Is it that the shareholders of those DACs are similar enough to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders that we aren't worried about market fragmentation by keeping those DACs independent and acting as "competition".

Offline eagleeye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile

6 month lock-in seems unnecessary.  Let the weak hands sell to the HODLERS at their earliest convenience.

It really only punishes those who don't have already have BTSX.  It won't really help with consensus, but the idea is to make sure we don't get a haircut that is counter-productive.  It also just moves the problem out 6 months...  Hmm

I am thinking that allowing people to "cash out early" at a discount is the way to smooth that out.  Ie: Wait 6 months and get your full stake, wait 3 months and get 50%...  modify this slightly and do it over 2 years to reflect the fact that the "payout horizon expectation" of these stakes is much longer.... giving them an "instant payout" would certainly bump the value of PTS in the short term....

What has made you calculate the economics/calculitic trajectory that you would want to leverage yourself in terms of the success of bitsharesx in 6 months or 2 years?

UPDATE

I understand 10% leverage.

UPDATE No.2 for Bytemaster/Dan

How long will this solution you have already thought of take? (plus or minus its guestimating time cost)

And do you want to leverage your team and time cost in this.  It is a Saturday 9:33PM PST 12:33AM EST.  You must be working hardcore already.

UPDATE No.3 for Bytemaster/Dan + Community

What is the reason behind getting rid of bitshares PTS?  You do not want to turn into a gatekeeper.

Also having bitshares PTS means all Bitshares MUSIC, Bitshares DNS, Bitshares VOTE stays as Bitshares brand, instead of a competing brand coming up.  Make your brand bigger, look at ISIS, ISIL, IS, the terrorist group, state and etc, they are doing it to make a brand.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:38:39 am by eagleeye »

Offline bytemaster


6 month lock-in seems unnecessary.  Let the weak hands sell to the HODLERS at their earliest convenience.

It really only punishes those who don't have already have BTSX.  It won't really help with consensus, but the idea is to make sure we don't get a haircut that is counter-productive.  It also just moves the problem out 6 months...  Hmm

I am thinking that allowing people to "cash out early" at a discount is the way to smooth that out.  Ie: Wait 6 months and get your full stake, wait 3 months and get 50%...  modify this slightly and do it over 2 years to reflect the fact that the "payout horizon expectation" of these stakes is much longer.... giving them an "instant payout" would certainly bump the value of PTS in the short term....

« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:26:25 am by bytemaster »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile

6 month lock-in seems unnecessary.  Let the weak hands sell to the HODLERS at their earliest convenience.

It really only punishes those who don't have already have BTSX.  It won't really help with consensus, but the idea is to make sure we don't get a haircut that is counter-productive.  It also just moves the problem out 6 months...  Hmm
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline bytemaster

Dan/bytemaster,

Dont put to much on your plate.

Let PTS live and be its on thing, just distance yourself from it.  Someone else must head PTS, someone must be picked who is voted on by the community (this is if you run PTS which im thinking you do).

UPDATE for Bytemaster/Dan

You have $10 million possible in funding.  You have already agreed to the 2 billion BTSX cap.  Either your going to raise the BTSX share cap, or pay out of money you have on you, or?

Watch your burn rate, you need a 5 year burn rate in cash.

UPDATE No.2 for Bytemaster/Dan

If you raise the market cap by 10% people will flee BitsharesX and as ive been saying in private to Joey/Maybe Fuz it will go to 42 - 44 million market cap, at the least.

Right now there is market demand for $5 million PTS and $50 million BTSX.... if these were two companies that "merged" the new company would likely have a value greater than the sum of their parts... rarely would the combined value go down.   

If you are referring to changing from "fixed supply" to dilution via delegates.... that is something that BTSX community will have to decide.   If someone wants to start a clone with the original 2B limit... then they can.  Follow the network effect is all I have to say.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline roadscape

I am trying to consolidate down to one plate from many.   Clean up the entire ecosystem... give people one option to get involved.. Buy BitShares.    No more explaining allocations, no more snapshots, etc... just keep it simple.

+5%

What's the opportunity cost of consolidation?
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline bytemaster

Dan/bytemaster,

Dont put to much on your plate.

Let PTS live and be its on thing, just distance yourself from it.  Someone else must head PTS, someone must be picked who is voted on by the community (this is if you run PTS which im thinking you do).

I am trying to consolidate down to one plate from many.   Clean up the entire ecosystem... give people one option to get involved.. Buy BitShares.    No more explaining allocations, no more snapshots, etc... just keep it simple.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2329
    • View Profile
Dan/bytemaster,

Dont put to much on your plate.

Let PTS live and be its on thing, just distance yourself from it.  Someone else must head PTS, someone must be picked who is voted on by the community (this is if you run PTS which im thinking you do).

Nobody runs PTS. Needs to be cleaned up.

Offline Mysto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
    • View Profile
I dont like the part with " unlimited dilution" :/

Stakeholder approved dilution... I say this because the "hard rules" will force us into "consensus busting problems" in the future. 

I am working on ideas for better control over the voting process for "hard forks"....
Excellent!

This really does show how adaptive bitshares can be! Look at bitcoin unable to adapt. Still mining away, still diluting to pay for "security", etc.
Bitshares is able to change and adapt to the situation at hand. Doing what you mentioned above will greatly help Bitshares maintain a competitive edge.

"...let the strongest live and the weakest die"- Charles Darwin

Offline eagleeye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Dan/bytemaster,

Dont put to much on your plate.

Let PTS live and be its on thing, just distance yourself from it.  Someone else must head PTS, someone must be picked who is voted on by the community (this is if you run PTS which im thinking you do).

UPDATE for Bytemaster/Dan

You have $10 million possible in funding.  You have already agreed to the 2 billion BTSX cap.  Either your going to raise the BTSX share cap, or pay out of money you have on you, or?

Watch your burn rate, you need a 5 year burn rate in cash.

UPDATE No.2 for Bytemaster/Dan

If you raise the market cap by 10% people will flee BitsharesX and as ive been saying in private to Joey/Maybe Fuz it will go to 42 - 44 million market cap, at the least.

UPDATE No.3 for Bytemaster/Dan

Joey/Fuz are good strategiets, especially Joey.  Both are ex-military and both know there stuff.  I was trained to be a General at 5 years old but I would consider myself self-trained as a Intelligence Officer,  though I have never been in the military as I went a different course.

UPDATE No.4 for Bytemaster/Dan

Consider me your own personal Central Intelligence Officer, though I do not work for the CIA and I am not American, even though I was conceived in the United States, San Diego, California.  Any CIA Agent would not be able to tell you this so you must understand I do not work for them.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:25:51 am by eagleeye »