Author Topic: Precise numbers on dilution?  (Read 16351 times)

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Offline luckybit

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So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

There are more than just a couple projects being worked on that could eventually help bitshares.  Those are a couple.  At this point a lot of the price decline has just been due to market/bitAsset bugs, so fixing those bugs and making it so people can trade again and the client isnt buggy could help a ton.  And bitAssets 3.0. 

Basically people have been indiscriminately dumping the hell out of BTS because the market was broken.  Gotta fix the market.


In the future when people want back in, those of us who held need to refuse to sell to them. ;)  They dumped it from 5000 sats to 2000.  When Bitshares starts doing well again and these people want back in, we should all just refuse to sell for under 5000 sats. 

(Of course, there will always be those that sell and those that buy, thats what makes a market.  What I am saying is that when Bitshares finally breaks the downtrend and begins to rally again, people need to hold off on selling until prices are good again.  Dont hold all the way down and then sell early into a rise, that makes no sense).

Do you not see how the conditional release of vested distribution would encourage people not to sell at cheap prices?
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Offline fuzzy

So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

I don't know the status of Gemspace. Was there supposed to be an interview or announcement?

MineBitShares is interesting and seems to be one of the few marketing initiatives showing decent results but personally I'm waiting for moonstone and BitAssets 3.0. A very easy to use simple client that lets you get in and out of BitAssets in reasonable quantities for less than a few %. (Plus things like cryptosmith are also very positive.)

Once you get that product right, the climate is such that there is a real need for these BitAssets, so I really see them taking off in spite of BTS not necessarily being the most optimal vehicle for them.

Our delegate has deployed 11.5% of its collective pay toward minebitshares.  I personally think we should be bold and have at least 3-4 delegates for minebitshares.  I also think we should vote in the delegate for cryptosmith. 
If it were up to me, in fact, I'd put as many f'ng delegates as I could to making minebitshares a huge push. 
Coupled with cryptosmith, miners would be able to mine real gold and silver directly to their doorstep...imagine all the people who would switch to using bitshares overnight.

It is our fear and unwillingness to use the tools we have that causes the most problems for us imho.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 12:05:26 am by fuzzy »
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Offline gamey

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Price decline hasnt been due to marketing efforts, its mostly been due to lack of delivery of the product.

If Bitcoin wasn't hit by POW pressure who knows how everything would be different.  No one but true believers want to keep their money in BTC and every crypto's price if pegged to BTC in some manner.

One of the biggest problems is merchants have not adopted bitshares. At least one has been able to buy useful stuff with bitcoin. When the architect of BitSharesX decided that a whole new API would be better, it was probably the largest mistake ever made in the project. At least with Bitcoin I can take my BTC and instantly go buy things all over. As the price drops this problem worsens.  Sure we have shopping carts but crypto's heart has always been in niche services related to privacy.

I think at this point any marketer we get we should not put too high of expectations into them as it will be a very tough job. I don't like to post much because I have nothing to contribute but negativity and that doesn't help people on here who I like on a personal level. These people are investing a lot of their time and passion into this project. I can only hope Dan can finish a stable 1.0 product and we see a near optimal solution to a bitasset system.
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Offline Ander

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So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

There are more than just a couple projects being worked on that could eventually help bitshares.  Those are a couple.  At this point a lot of the price decline has just been due to market/bitAsset bugs, so fixing those bugs and making it so people can trade again and the client isnt buggy could help a ton.  And bitAssets 3.0. 

Basically people have been indiscriminately dumping the hell out of BTS because the market was broken.  Gotta fix the market.


In the future when people want back in, those of us who held need to refuse to sell to them. ;)  They dumped it from 5000 sats to 2000.  When Bitshares starts doing well again and these people want back in, we should all just refuse to sell for under 5000 sats. 

(Of course, there will always be those that sell and those that buy, thats what makes a market.  What I am saying is that when Bitshares finally breaks the downtrend and begins to rally again, people need to hold off on selling until prices are good again.  Dont hold all the way down and then sell early into a rise, that makes no sense).
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Offline Stan

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Marketing BitShares to the consumer is like marketing an AirBus to the consumer.  Why does a consumer want an AirBus?  We have to market to people who use the AirBus to provide services the consumer wants.

And much of our behind the scenes activities are focused on doing just that.

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

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So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

I don't know the status of Gemspace. Was there supposed to be an interview or announcement?

There is also this big Chinese initiative  - generally hostile takeover of Berkshire Hathaway (or buying one share of it. Cannot recall precisely but one or the other) using the Bitshares platform.... It should be huge also.

Offline Empirical1.2

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So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

I don't know the status of Gemspace. Was there supposed to be an interview or announcement?

MineBitShares is interesting and seems to be one of the few marketing initiatives showing decent results but personally I'm waiting for moonstone and BitAssets 3.0. A very easy to use simple client that lets you get in and out of BitAssets in reasonable quantities for less than a few %. (Plus things like cryptosmith are also very positive.)

Once you get that product right, the climate is such that there is a real need for these BitAssets, so I really see them taking off in spite of BTS not necessarily being the most optimal vehicle for them.
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Offline luckybit

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So we have to wait for Moonstone? The fate of Bitshares rests in Moonstone and Minebitshares?

I don't know the status of Gemspace. Was there supposed to be an interview or announcement?
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Offline Empirical1.2

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Oh yeah, also:
4) Stan bullshitting with pump posts primising that secret and amazing things are coming but giving no details.

Not been fan of  his picture rich posts...ever. And by ever I mean long before you come around. I do not know if they move markets but sure as hell if they have any effect it is negative. They stopped being anything but a desperation attempt of reassurance that the future is bright. "The proof for that future?" you ask - Here are those cartoon pictures I found... pretty pathetic for everyone who has read more than a few of those. And yes for the last week's one I did say - "Sell the rumor..."

I have to agree. Few things makes me want to sell more than those pump/history rewrite posts.

I must be one of the few who usually enjoys a good pump post. Gives hope that something is in the pipeline to save us. At this price all you can really do is hope, lol.

...but it would be nice to know whether or not the "future is bright" posts were actually legit. We've seen time and again that nothing materializes from them.

Stan, is there any way to prove you're serious and that tangible things are soon to happen, without breaking NDA's etc?

don't hold your breath on good news to save us ....
In a bear market , no amount of good news can reverse a down trend if the market is not "adjusted well at the bottom" . Every good news on a down trend will be ignore by the bear market , on the other hand , bad news will have a greater impact because of the trend .

I learned that the hard way when I tried to catch the last train on several really good news along the down trend .

What if there is no bottom?
What if it's just us with no new interest and the dilution, the merger distribution, is just going to result in more sell pressure?

Are we going to be happy when the marketcap is $5 million? how about $1 million? Both are possible due to dilution and the fact that no effective effort is going into marketing.

Marketing is the biggest disappointment. First we had some guy whom I can't remember the name of who promised to bring in big investors. Apparently they came, invested, and dumped.

Then we have this other guy Adam who promises to show a grand plan and again nothing. We see no plans, we see no progress, we see no marketing. It doesn't take a lot to put ads in Google and Facebook. It doesn't take a lot of effort to put ads on coinmarketcap or cointelegraph.

There is no marketing and the longer we wait the lower the market cap gets and the less money there will be for marketing campaigns. When the market cap is only $5 million instead of the $50 million it was before the merger how will you feel about that? If secret sauce marketing is having that effect then we were better off a year ago today.

Ignoring things like the BTS structure (merger etc.) & brand image for the moment, I think rgcrypto gave us a great analysis of where we are this stage.

+5%
That is exactly what I experienced with the tests I ran on Facebook and Twitter. The cost per conversion is too high.
We are not selling socks here. We are selling a pre version 1 software that most people don't understand why they would need that in the first place.

The affiliate system would be a great way to recruits entrepreneurs and businesses who would then go ahead and gain users.

But running ads to attract users to understand bitshares core is a losing game. (It is still valuable to create content and be involved in the media but direct marketing for bitshares core...nah)

Services like MineBitShares, Moonstone, Limewallet, etc are project that could flourish if they gained an affiliate compensation for bringing in users (may reduce the need to go all out politic and run for a delegate position too).


Essentially the product is still too complicated etc. for marketing to be very effective and I think he's even directing his current delegate pay at MineBitShares.

I'm someone who'd love to use a good BitAsset in quantity but I've had zero BitAssets for a while after having to deal with the wallet/bugs/low liquidity etc.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 08:59:54 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline luckybit

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And while there is no marketing for Bitshares, NXT, Dash and others are eating our lunch.

Why?

Because they have marketing effort whether it's effective or not.

Minebitshares is a good start. It has potential. At the same time Bitshares should market itself to south America, to Europe and other places where they don't speak English and haven't heard as much about Bitcoin or other similar competitors.

Bitshares doesn't have good brand recognition in the United States but overseas it's different. In how many languages is Bitshares translated into? It should at least be translated into the major European languages. Also would be good if Korea, Japan, South America, etc all have access to marketing material.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 08:53:10 pm by luckybit »
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Offline Stan

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Anyone who can say that "nothing has materialized" since I started posting wouldn't recognize a flux capacitor if it bit them in the butt.

:)

I don't have any interest in convincing the skeptics - let them chase the market.

My only interest is helping the loyal faithful avoid doing anything they might regret.
(And to let people know that lack of news in my staff meeting notes does not imply inactivity, disinterest, or lack of progress.)

But wildpig is right, it does no good to waste ammunition until the timing is right.
No point in shooting off my mouth before the command to "fire!"

« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 08:58:04 pm by Stan »
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Offline Ander

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Price decline hasnt been due to marketing efforts, its mostly been due to lack of delivery of the product.
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Offline luckybit

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Oh yeah, also:
4) Stan bullshitting with pump posts primising that secret and amazing things are coming but giving no details.

Not been fan of  his picture rich posts...ever. And by ever I mean long before you come around. I do not know if they move markets but sure as hell if they have any effect it is negative. They stopped being anything but a desperation attempt of reassurance that the future is bright. "The proof for that future?" you ask - Here are those cartoon pictures I found... pretty pathetic for everyone who has read more than a few of those. And yes for the last week's one I did say - "Sell the rumor..."

I have to agree. Few things makes me want to sell more than those pump/history rewrite posts.

I must be one of the few who usually enjoys a good pump post. Gives hope that something is in the pipeline to save us. At this price all you can really do is hope, lol.

...but it would be nice to know whether or not the "future is bright" posts were actually legit. We've seen time and again that nothing materializes from them.

Stan, is there any way to prove you're serious and that tangible things are soon to happen, without breaking NDA's etc?

don't hold your breath on good news to save us ....
In a bear market , no amount of good news can reverse a down trend if the market is not "adjusted well at the bottom" . Every good news on a down trend will be ignore by the bear market , on the other hand , bad news will have a greater impact because of the trend .

I learned that the hard way when I tried to catch the last train on several really good news along the down trend .

What if there is no bottom?
What if it's just us with no new interest and the dilution, the merger distribution, is just going to result in more sell pressure?

Are we going to be happy when the marketcap is $5 million? how about $1 million? Both are possible due to dilution and the fact that no effective effort is going into marketing.

Marketing is the biggest disappointment. First we had some guy whom I can't remember the name of who promised to bring in big investors. Apparently they came, invested, and dumped.

Then we have this other guy Adam who promises to show a grand plan and again nothing. We see no plans, we see no progress, we see no marketing. It doesn't take a lot to put ads in Google and Facebook. It doesn't take a lot of effort to put ads on coinmarketcap or cointelegraph.

There is no marketing and the longer we wait the lower the market cap gets and the less money there will be for marketing campaigns. When the market cap is only $5 million instead of the $50 million it was before the merger how will you feel about that? If secret sauce marketing is having that effect then we were better off a year ago today.

Everyone has a right to be disappointed. How is it that last year at this time Bitshares had a higher market cap than this year? And what can we tell investors about our horrible chart which shows losses for most of 2014 and 2015? The numbers don't lie and it looks like a pump and dump: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares/

Look at that chart
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 08:46:45 pm by luckybit »
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Offline btswildpig

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don't hold your breath on good news to save us ....
In a bear market , no amount of good news can reverse a down trend if the market is not "adjusted well at the bottom" . Every good news on a down trend will be ignore by the bear market , on the other hand , bad news will have a greater impact because of the trend .

I learned that the hard way when I tried to catch the last train on several really good news along the down trend .

I'm pretty sure that significantly huge news would turn a market around before most even have a chance to react. Depends on just how powerful the news is. That seems to be the dilemma with Stan's obscure-style posts -- whether they allude to something truly market-moving and coming in the very near future, or if it's just something the devs think is awesome (and it may very well be) but it isn't market-moving, or it won't materialize in any reasonable amount of time...

I remembered the rise of Bitcoin in late 2013 started with a stupid "good news" that was actually powerless but for some reasons it happened right at a up trend , so the market gave credit to it .

"China big search engine adopted Bitcoin" ......That was the title ...
But in fact , it was just a small operation which only accepted as low as 100USD and ended after a month .

And we see good news bigger than that this year with Bitcoin every month .....and yet ....

A market moving news is useless too if those who has power to drive up the price is not ready to act on the news just yet .

Of course , you can expect small fishes to buy on the good news .... But if price didn't drive up after the news , then small fishes wouldn't believe it's a really good news either , so they'll stay put .

So basically , the real good news is those news that actually happens exactly at the the rising time of the price . News that happens outside of that period is just "fun news" .
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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don't hold your breath on good news to save us ....
In a bear market , no amount of good news can reverse a down trend if the market is not "adjusted well at the bottom" . Every good news on a down trend will be ignore by the bear market , on the other hand , bad news will have a greater impact because of the trend .

I learned that the hard way when I tried to catch the last train on several really good news along the down trend .

I'm pretty sure that significantly huge news would turn a market around before most even have a chance to react. Depends on just how powerful the news is. That seems to be the dilemma with Stan's obscure-style posts -- whether they allude to something truly market-moving and coming in the very near future, or if it's just something the devs think is awesome (and it may very well be) but it isn't market-moving, or it won't materialize in any reasonable amount of time...