Author Topic: Bitshares price discussion  (Read 937509 times)

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Offline betax

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The way I trade, mainly I don't trade, this is what I have done for the past 2 years.

Look at the code, see development progress and development communications (bytemaster), and buy a little (or lots depends on your view). Obviously like everybody here who has followed the strategy, if I have waited 2 years I would have now 10x what I have now. But I would not know so much about the project and its potential.

I don't know if my investment has gone directly to development or traders, but all maintain the project alive :)

PS I did not buy anything when there was no progress on GitHub. You know what I mean.
Edit:  Also I swear a little when the price goes down.
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Offline puppies

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If you had just won everything where would you be?

Why would I tell you?  :P

I'm doing market research.
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Tuck Fheman

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If you had just won everything where would you be?

Why would I tell you?  :P

Offline puppies

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Learn from someone who lost everything by doing that.

Where's the guy that won everything doing that?  He's never around it seems. ;)

If you had just won everything where would you be?
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Tuck Fheman

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Learn from someone who lost everything by doing that.

Where's the guy that won everything doing that?  He's never around it seems. ;)

Offline complexring

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If the following were told to me:
  • Crazy manipulation by (an organized gang of?) traders on Poloniex is leaching value from BitShares, hurting the whole project
  • There is a person or a body of people, trusted by the BitShares community, with the ability to fight back on Poloniex for the benefit BitShares
  • This trusted entity has a trading plan which has been 'audited' to the satisfaction of the community. (Analyzed behind closed doors by a select few if necessary)
  • The plan is risky and could backfire, but there is a good chance of success
  • The amount of BTS needed to operate the plan is great
  • The amount of BTS needed could be pooled by creating a User Issued Asset and selling it to BitShares supporters (or to people who want to speculate, anticipating a cut of any profit)
  • There are loads of people on bitsharestalk who have stated that they'd like to allocate a proportion of their BTS into buying this UIA

then I would say, "Oh, I'm definitely interested in buying a chunk of such a UIA, but I know nothing about trading and would like to see what others think of this idea on bitsharestalk".

That is all...

LOL.  Now there is an idea.   If being a whale was so profitable then I am sure you would see funds set up doing just this!   The fact that there are no funds like this out there tells me all I need to know about the effectiveness of being a whale and manipulating the price for profit.

first rule of ...

Offline habeler

Using BTS as collateral is a very bad idea. If you have BTC, buy BTS outright but dont get tempted to get more by putting those BTS in collateral.

Learn from someone who lost everything by doing that.
1LeQTkxdpvZFU23qA22xas2zvqzTHMa48T
bts-habeler876

Offline Ander

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One more thing: it makes my eyebrows go up when everyone encourages each other to buy BTS with borrowed money. That is not investing -- it's gambling. Slow and steady wins the race.

Sorry for our loss  :(

I totally agree.  When people are going crazy margin on BTS it makes me want to sell, because it means the price it is at is nto really sustainable because those people have to sell later to cover.

If I had known just how much people were margin longing at the top of the september pump I wouldve sold and been in better shape now. :P
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Offline alt

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if you can see all user's balance, and margin call price, you can do it.
if you can't, don't do it. you are killing yourself.
polo can dump user's BTS to force your margin call easily. buy back BTS return to the users.

Offline Ander

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Basically, markets gonna market. If the project is a success, the price will follow.

Agreed.  The manipulation only worked because of a combination of Bitshares 2.0 not being up to some peopels expectations + sell the news drop + bitcoin rallying hard causing all alts to drop.

The market determined Bitshares must fall.  The actual method of how it fell ended up being as described, with some whales profiting and some margin users getting liquidated.
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Offline Chronos

If the following were told to me:
  • Crazy manipulation by (an organized gang of?) traders on Poloniex is leaching value from BitShares, hurting the whole project
I actually don't think this explanation is likely over the medium or long term. As nice as it is to think that extended downturns are "manipulation" by a select few, it's more reasonable to think that there is simply a lower aggregate demand for BTS, relative to supply, than there was in the past.

Basically, markets gonna market. If the project is a success, the price will follow.

Offline bytemaster

If the following were told to me:
  • Crazy manipulation by (an organized gang of?) traders on Poloniex is leaching value from BitShares, hurting the whole project
  • There is a person or a body of people, trusted by the BitShares community, with the ability to fight back on Poloniex for the benefit BitShares
  • This trusted entity has a trading plan which has been 'audited' to the satisfaction of the community. (Analyzed behind closed doors by a select few if necessary)
  • The plan is risky and could backfire, but there is a good chance of success
  • The amount of BTS needed to operate the plan is great
  • The amount of BTS needed could be pooled by creating a User Issued Asset and selling it to BitShares supporters (or to people who want to speculate, anticipating a cut of any profit)
  • There are loads of people on bitsharestalk who have stated that they'd like to allocate a proportion of their BTS into buying this UIA

then I would say, "Oh, I'm definitely interested in buying a chunk of such a UIA, but I know nothing about trading and would like to see what others think of this idea on bitsharestalk".

That is all...

LOL.  Now there is an idea.   If being a whale was so profitable then I am sure you would see funds set up doing just this!   The fact that there are no funds like this out there tells me all I need to know about the effectiveness of being a whale and manipulating the price for profit.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

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@Ander

What you fail to see and take into consideration is that  a price drop to 542  sat right this moment will cause a blackswan in bitBTC; to 425 in bitUSD as well, it will be much worse PR than BM losing several mil BTS...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Akado

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well bts supporters could just create an hedge fund and trade with massive amounts supporting the price.

Longs on Shorts - The Saga
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Offline Ander

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There was a situation a couple of days ago where a 50btc market buy would have been enough to double the price and a 50btc market sell would half the price.
This was on poloniex which has the deepest BTS books.

this means a whale could drop the BTS/USD feed and create black swan events on bitshares which could be beneficial.

Such spikes dont last long, they just give money for free to the peopel who had orders on the books.

Real movements that last take more BTC to pull off, and they require you to continually put in orders supporting the price.  But this is a better way to do it, because you end up buying at much better prices.
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