Bitshares price discussion

[intelliguy]

1. A third party creates a UIA in the BTS Ecosystem.... Lets call it SCAM.UIA

So lets review what has happened so far.  The scammer has created a token out of thin air and sold it to you for real currency or bitcoin.  You are hoping that he will take that money and create something wonderfully profitable and then distribute the money back to you via buy back or dividends.

Unfortunately....

12.  What are these uninterested investors who just received BTS for their SCAM.UIA going to do??? That's right! SELL THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED BTS!

We need to propose some possible solutions to this madness..  Any ideas?

ICO's in general, totally kill crypto, not just on the Bitshares, DEX but everywhere.  "Buy this, and I promise that later" rarely ever works out for the early investor.

When I see an ICO now, I cringe.

[Permie]

Thanks very much

[lil_jay890]

I will reiterate my point that the ICO's that are being done on bitshares are seriously retarding any ability for bts to gain traction to the upside.  They put so much sell pressure on bts and suck so much liquidity out of the system.  There simply isn't enough liquidity being provided by a few dozen traders running bots to support multiple 7 figure ICO's.  I know there is no way to change it now, but until BTS can regulate the amount of ICO's it allows, this sell pressure will be constant.

Had not considered that. Thanks.


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Could you explain this in simple terms?
Do you mean that ICO investors are cashing-out of the ecosystem constantly?

Yes... I've explained it a few times, so I'm just going to post a quote from a little while ago.

Sorry, but your explanation lacks an independent first reason that is not the same reason BTS would go down without the UIA tokens as well.

Lets try this again...

1. A third party creates a UIA in the BTS Ecosystem.... Lets call it SCAM.UIA
2. Third party promotes SCAM.UIA, saying it the key to decentralized, deregulated, liberty for all, fortunes
3. In order to get in on this wonderful investment, you need to send DOLLLARS or BITCOIN to this third party
4. The third party then sends you a whole bunch of shiny new SCAM.UIA tokens

So lets review what has happened so far.  The scammer has created a token out of thin air and sold it to you for real currency or bitcoin.  You are hoping that he will take that money and create something wonderfully profitable and then distribute the money back to you via buy back or dividends.

Unfortunately....

5.  Once the SCAM.UIA tokens are distributed, all the investors are locked into the BTS ecosystem.
6.  All these investors have lots of initial "paper" wealth. But SCAM.UIA's trading book is extremely thin.
7.  Some of the original SCAM.UIA buyers wanted to sell on the first pop, but the books are too thin
8.  The books are too thin because there is not enough BTS holders, who were not involved in SCAM.UIA's ICO, willing to buy SCAM.UIA on the open market
9.  Original investors start selling SCAM.UIA because there was no initial pop and barely any buy orders on the books.
10.  All of a sudden the trading book for SCAM.UIA is loaded with sells with hardly any buy orders.
11.  This leads to steady sell pressure on SCAM.UIA.  Many of these investors who are selling SCAM.UIA have no interest of being in the BTS ecosystem, holding BTS, or using the DEX.
12.  What are these uninterested investors who just received BTS for their SCAM.UIA going to do??? That's right! SELL THEIR NEWLY ACQUIRED BTS!
13.  What do they sell it for??? bitcoin, ethereum, or fiat.
14.  What does selling BTS for fiat do to the price of BTS?? Causes it to decline.

These 14 steps have happened with the majority of the UIA's issued on the BTS platform.  Unless a UIA creator starts making a profit and buys back bts on the open market with his fiat profit, he has in essence taken energy out of the system.  The UIA creators, especially the big ones that raise a ton of money, put an incredible amount of stress on the tiny amount of traders who use the DEX.  If the UIA is going to stay profitable the DEX traders need to provide buy support.  Problem is there is not enough traders with excess capital to provide this support.     

[Permie]

I will reiterate my point that the ICO's that are being done on bitshares are seriously retarding any ability for bts to gain traction to the upside.  They put so much sell pressure on bts and suck so much liquidity out of the system.  There simply isn't enough liquidity being provided by a few dozen traders running bots to support multiple 7 figure ICO's.  I know there is no way to change it now, but until BTS can regulate the amount of ICO's it allows, this sell pressure will be constant.

Had not considered that. Thanks.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Could you explain this in simple terms?
Do you mean that ICO investors are cashing-out of the ecosystem constantly?

[mr-whitekey]

I will reiterate my point that the ICO's that are being done on bitshares are seriously retarding any ability for bts to gain traction to the upside.  They put so much sell pressure on bts and suck so much liquidity out of the system.  There simply isn't enough liquidity being provided by a few dozen traders running bots to support multiple 7 figure ICO's.  I know there is no way to change it now, but until BTS can regulate the amount of ICO's it allows, this sell pressure will be constant.

Had not considered that. Thanks.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[mr-whitekey]

More and more this is looking like another failed bounce... Shit ton of money came into alt coins and BTS benefited from that pump.  Unfortunately bitshares has fallen to 33 overall on CMC.... lower than before the pump.

It's rank in terms of market cap is not a good measure. Relative to other highly volital speculative "assets".

Your criquites best rest on its market cap in terms of dollars, a strong and stable fiat currency.

But, yes I understand your point based on the performance of other blockchain projects.



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[lil_jay890]

More and more this is looking like another failed bounce... Shit ton of money came into alt coins and BTS benefited from that pump.  Unfortunately bitshares has fallen to 33 overall on CMC.... lower than before the pump. 

I will reiterate my point that the ICO's that are being done on bitshares are seriously retarding any ability for bts to gain traction to the upside.  They put so much sell pressure on bts and suck so much liquidity out of the system.  There simply isn't enough liquidity being provided by a few dozen traders running bots to support multiple 7 figure ICO's.  I know there is no way to change it now, but until BTS can regulate the amount of ICO's it allows, this sell pressure will be constant.

[mr-whitekey]

Why was there a two year downtrend in the first place?

The one aspect that bitshares DOES offer right now, is the ability to trade on an exchange trusting solely private/public key cryptography. Security. You can't get GOX'd.

We can not "get GOX'd", if and only if, we trade BTS, or another token on the BTS blockchain.

Anyone who wants to trade BTC, Eth, Dash, or any other alt on the Bitshares Dex CAN "get GOX'd". Trading a market pegged asset of BTC is also more risky.

Our exchange needs to address this issue if we expect to grow. We offer no compelling reason for a Bitcoin trader to use our DEX.

I am still new and speak only based on what I have read and heard, if I am wrong please let me know.

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[Permie]

Why was there a two year downtrend in the first place?

My GUESS is that 2(?) years ago when the BitShares whitepaper/solid-project-info was released a large number of investors wanted to buy at the same time. 'Innovators' who see the potential in BitShares and wanted to get in on the ground floor.
A high-density of purchases at the same time pushes the price up. There are more buyers than there are sellers.
Traders then latch-on to the price rise, and scrape their profit off the general trend, giving the smaller price swings up/down.
Then after a few weeks/months all of the 'innovator types' that would be satisfied to invest on just documentation and an early stage product alone have finished buying.
Thus the price gradually decreases, with price swings on the way, caused by traders.

Since then, much of the work has been behind the scenes. If you didn't believe in the future success of bts 2 years ago, there hasn't been 'that much' of a reason to change your mind. It's all still technological developments rather than use-case development. Grandma's aren't using it, the liquidity is low, it's not the best exchange you could be using to trade. You can (currently) get better liquidity and higher margin at centralized exchanges.

The one aspect that bitshares DOES offer right now, is the ability to trade on an exchange trusting solely private/public key cryptography. Security. You can't get GOX'd.

How many average people are both 1) Interested in trading on a financial exchange?
2) Understand priv/pubkey technolology 3) Have spare time and cash to fiddle around with bitshares figuring out how to use it.
? I'd say not very many at all

BUT, there are lots of TRADERS who do have all those 3 things. Crypto-traders who currently rely on centralized exchanges. Why should they go through all the steps to switch to BitShares, only to find that there is far lower liquidity?
Why would a $20k poloniex trader move to bitshares to struggle to trade $100's at a time?

I believe that a 2 year downtrend might be coming to an end because the volume on the DEX has been increasing a lot recently. I think due to btsbots. Allowing bts investors to "make the market" on the DEX. Which adds liquidity and makes bitshares more attractive to crypto-traders.

Price up 2 years ago: early innovators who see potential
Price up today: crypto-traders are attracted by the rise in volume on the DEX

MY OPINION AND NOTHING MORE

[MrFrismint]

Why was there a two year downtrend in the first place?

[Akado]

This slight pump might be the first sign of reversal of a 2 year long downtrend. Which means upwards potential should be pretty big. I might get in with a small amount
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTSBTC/NoBD0Rld-BitShares-breaking-out-of-2-year-long-down-trend/

[toknormal]

It is succeeding, the product is built. It works.  Now it's simply a matter of attracting more business to start using it.  Stan's is already on that, and any of us can do that too if we like...

Many thanks. Glad to hear it !

[intelliguy]

I bought BTS at about every price level going assuming it was going to succeed. Next thing I knew its founder turned up in @steem (I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the background to make any judgement about that). The whole time, all it did was loose, loose, loose value.

It is succeeding, the product is built. It works.  Now it's simply a matter of attracting more business to start using it.  Stan's is already on that, and any of us can do that too if we like...

[toknormal]

Bitshares isn't evil.  Dash's initial founder = definitely evil.

No. I'm afraid not.

If you really want to couch in such tribal terms, Bitshares is a good 20 to 50 times more evil than Dash.

I spent a whole year pumping Bitshares around forums, extolling the virtues of a beautifully designed, market driven peg which served as an axis between two mutually exclusive monetary requirements - price stability and store of value.

I bought BTS at about every price level going assuming it was going to succeed. Next thing I knew its founder turned up in @steem (I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with the background to make any judgement about that). The whole time, all it did was loose, loose, loose value.

Meanwhile, my Dash investments grew, the founder stuck with the project, made good design decisions, good marketing decisions, hired good team members and made good delivery commitments. The coin did well in markets - just take a look at its 21-week EMA over 3 years. Barely a dip and now it's breaking out due to the reputation they've got for delivering on roadmaps.

If you want to use the word "evil" without making yourself look ridiculous, save it for the trolls who deprived investors of a sound lead or conned noob shorters into being skinned alive in markets - some of them out of their entire life savings - because they drank the "it's a scam" coolaid.

[intelliguy]

The founder is thought to hold around 3% of the coins supply at most. Triple or quadruple that if you like and he's still outnumbered many times in terms of node voting.

No one really knows how much of the premine he has, spread among multiple wallets.

I suspect the founder, with the premine, is manipulating the market, and taking everyone for a ride by buying/selling to himself.  The pump is just a little too crazy.

People seem to get blinded quite easiliy as long as they are riding a rocket.  However when that rocket runs out of fuel, or the game is over, watch out.

Remember we discussed this March 2017.  I suspect by March 2020 Dash will no longer be in the top 10.

Probably because they'll just undergo a name change again.  How many name changes would that be for Dash? 4?

The only reason we're even talking about Dash, is because someone insisted that we follow Dash's pump.   Well if I can premine a whole bunch of BTS and trade them on the market for myself, I could raise the value of BTS just as high as dash, and mislead coinmarketcap.com.

Once I pump it up nice and fat, and high, I'd wait for the buy orders to accumulate (much like people are doing with Dash right now) and I'd dump the whole thing on them.

Problem is I'm not evil.  Bitshares isn't evil.  Dash's initial founder = definitely evil.  I'd run from anything that guy touched.

Here's a former "DASHaholic" and his words:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@thedashguy/warning-why-i-don-t-trust-the-price-of-dash-nor-the-community-be-careful-folks-invest-wisely-diversify