Author Topic: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)  (Read 68829 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pseudoscops

Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #285 on: August 14, 2015, 11:03:27 am »

Everyone was asked to post in a thread about what they've done and some Brownie.PTS were sent about 2 months ago or so. Are we supposed to keep posting each time we do something we think is worthy of a Brownie.PTS nod from @bytemaster or will he simply know we contributed or how do we know when to stop begging for Brownie.PTS for contributing because we didn't know we were on a shitlist?   ;D

I've been away for a while and so trying to catch up. My absence means that any contributions I've made in the past, which amount to far less than a lot here, will probably faded from memory.

But my contributions are irrelevant because I think Brownies just seem like such a daft idea and I think they are going to switch off more people than they turn on. When I hear people like Xeroc suggesting that people should consider sharedropping on Brownies vs BTS it just makes me wonder what has happened in my absence. Xeroc was so fair-minded and he seemed the other day to be advocating dropping on what must amount to a tiny fraction of people who have supported BTS in some way. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Maybe I just don't get it. All these twists and turns - well they're just confusing. I'm hoping not intentionally so. I'm still holding, but I'm losing faith a little with this Brownie stuff.

Faith will be restored if someone can build a logical argument as to why Brownies are fair and will remain so. Whilst trying to answer this please keep in mind the quote from DataSecuirty Node above. I'm pretty sure if you read what he says you'll quickly realise that Brownies are not practical and cannot ever be fairly distributed. So this means at the very least sharedrops should be refused/not encouraged by BM and Xeroc and other Brownie holders.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 11:38:15 am by pseudoscops »

Offline lakerta06

Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #286 on: August 14, 2015, 11:18:23 am »


Everyone was asked to post in a thread about what they've done and some Brownie.PTS were sent about 2 months ago or so. Are we supposed to keep posting each time we do something we think is worthy of a Brownie.PTS nod from @bytemaster or will he simply know we contributed or how do we know when to stop begging for Brownie.PTS for contributing because we didn't know we were on a shitlist?   ;D

I've been away for a while and so trying to catch up. My absence means that any contributions I've made in the past, which amount to far less than a lot here, will probably faded from memory. Still I feel like I've contributed to the debate here at times.

Brownies just seem like such a daft idea and I think they are going to switch off more people than they turn on. When I hear people like Xeroc suggesting that people should consider sharedropping on Brownies vs BTS it just makes me wonder what has happened in my absence. Xeroc was so fair-minded and he appears to be advocating dropping on what must amount to a tiny fraction of people who have supported BTS in some way.

Maybe I just don't get it. All these twists and turns - well they're just confusing. I'm hoping not intentionally so. I'm still holding, but I'm losing faith a little with this Brownie stuff.

Faith will be restored if someone can build a logical argument as to why Brownies are fair and will remain so. Whilst trying to answer this please keep in mind the quote from DataSecuirty Node above. I'm pretty sure if you read what he says you'll quickly realise that Brownies are not practical and cannot ever be fairly distributed. So this means at the very least sharedrops should be refused/not encouraged by BM and Xeroc and other Brownie holders.

I will just speculate thru questions.

1) Can "fair" be defined?
2) Why should a sharedrop should be fair? Should the distribution scheme of some part of something you own/build/produce be subject to any third party's definition of "fair"
3) Is the distribution of BTS fair? (Remember PTS bounties?)
4) Someone with no access to BTS (no money avaliable, no on/off ramp available in the country/jurisdiction etc..) be left out? Even if he/she is a big contributor to the community?

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #287 on: August 14, 2015, 11:42:58 am »
August 13 of this thread.. why I don't like sharedropping.

If he had smartdropped a set rate to those that sought it out, nobody would have anything to complain about.

Regardless.. the obvious is missing here.. It's 100% HIS choice who or what he will sharedrop on. It doesn't matter how fair or unfair it looks to others, it was ultimately up to John et. his org what type of goals they wanted to accomplish with it.

You can call it whatever you like.. but at the end of the day for all you freedom lovers.. it's HIS CHOICE who he WANTS to sharedrop on.. there is absolutely no obligation to anybody to take any such actions today.

Just like you have all been free to to speak out against it on this platform and likely have burned (pardon the pun) any likelyhood of anybody wanting to sharedrop on anything related to the BitShares community again less they should suffer the stink of a handful of hornets in the nest, they have the freedom to launch their coin as they see fit.

It's not yours, it's theirs.

If I have a new coin or UIA and I decide that brownie.pts is a good 'list' to reach a certain demographic that I want.. who is anybody to judge otherwise?

Where is Brownie.PTS now? I think a lot of people here could use HUGS right now. :)

We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.

Dan/Stan were able to whisper in Underwood's ear to donate 20% to some asset that they have complete control over.   Your telling me that brownie holders have done the same amount for developing graphene as bts holders?

No one understands clearly how brownies are distributed... And for some opaque instrument to warrant the same value as bts seems wrong.  Any investor from the past year has paid dearly for the development of graphene... Through the merger and all the pumps and promises.

That said, brownies could be a good idea if they were better defined and detailed.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #288 on: August 14, 2015, 11:43:21 am »
Faith will be restored if someone can build a logical argument as to why Brownies are fair and will remain so. Whilst trying to answer this please keep in mind the quote from DataSecuirty Node above. I'm pretty sure if you read what he says you'll quickly realise that Brownies are not practical and cannot ever be fairly distributed. So this means at the very least sharedrops should be refused/not encouraged by BM and Xeroc and other Brownie holders.

BROWNIE.PTS never was about a "fair distribution" .. nor did @rune in the makerDAO sharedrop discussion ask for a share distribution. In contrary (IIRC), he asked for participants in his project ans asked for "mailing list".
This is BTW .. also why BTS was distributed 50/50 among AGS and PTS .. PTS was created to have a fair (in terms of "everyone could mine") distribution and AGS for those that understood the concept and wanted to donate to fund BM's goals.

IMHO: <<----
sharedropping is not about having a "fair" distribution but to target a community or subcommunity that you feel may fit your purpose!


A different thing is (though) when you want to use the Graphene tech that was developed using AGS/PTS funds .. In that regards you would thing about PTS/AGS donators to see them selves as "investors" and I can totally understand that. For that reason, there was (and still is) a social consensus that states that however wants to use that tech can only gain our support if they sharedrop at least 10%/10% ontop of AGS/PTS holders (upgraded some months ago to be BTS holders only)


But .. please ... keep in mind that some projects may decide to not use the graphene tech (i.e. MakerDao) and they are free to use whatever "mailing list" they want to use.
BTS would be a rather wide audience, BROWNIES would be a rather active but small community, DOGE would be funny clowns .. you get my point ..
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12915
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #289 on: August 14, 2015, 11:45:04 am »
We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.

Dan/Stan were able to whisper in Underwood's ear to donate 20% to some asset that they have complete control over.   Your telling me that brownie holders have done the same amount for developing graphene as bts holders?

No one understands clearly how brownies are distributed... And for some opaque instrument to warrant the same value as bts seems wrong.  Any investor from the past year has paid dearly for the development of graphene... Through the merger and all the pumps and promises.

That said, brownies could be a good idea if they were better defined and detailed.
From what I know .. underwood will sharedrop 20% on BTS .. hence the social consensus is fulfilled (arguable about the dilution of 2%)
Social consensus clear states that the other 80% can be distributed freely .. stupidly or more intelligently .. it's not up to us to decide!
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #290 on: August 14, 2015, 12:01:59 pm »
August 13 of this thread.. why I don't like sharedropping.

If he had smartdropped a set rate to those that sought it out, nobody would have anything to complain about.

Regardless.. the obvious is missing here.. It's 100% HIS choice who or what he will sharedrop on. It doesn't matter how fair or unfair it looks to others, it was ultimately up to John et. his org what type of goals they wanted to accomplish with it.

You can call it whatever you like.. but at the end of the day for all you freedom lovers.. it's HIS CHOICE who he WANTS to sharedrop on.. there is absolutely no obligation to anybody to take any such actions today.

Just like you have all been free to to speak out against it on this platform and likely have burned (pardon the pun) any likelyhood of anybody wanting to sharedrop on anything related to the BitShares community again less they should suffer the stink of a handful of hornets in the nest, they have the freedom to launch their coin as they see fit.

It's not yours, it's theirs.

If I have a new coin or UIA and I decide that brownie.pts is a good 'list' to reach a certain demographic that I want.. who is anybody to judge otherwise?

Where is Brownie.PTS now? I think a lot of people here could use HUGS right now. :)

We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.

Dan/Stan were able to whisper in Underwood's ear to donate 20% to some asset that they have complete control over.   Your telling me that brownie holders have done the same amount for developing graphene as bts holders?

No one understands clearly how brownies are distributed... And for some opaque instrument to warrant the same value as bts seems wrong.  Any investor from the past year has paid dearly for the development of graphene... Through the merger and all the pumps and promises.

That said, brownies could be a good idea if they were better defined and detailed.
This would hold all true if there was no distribution on anything else.. it just happens the brownies get a bit more.. so social consensus is fulfilled regardless.. going forward though this idea of the social consensus has to step down.. it's technically over.... it just happened to fit into John's plans.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2015, 12:23:30 pm »
We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.


False.

Graphene was developed by the developers with their own sweat equity when their delegate pay dropped to a couple days a month.  During that time BitShares paid only for answering the fan mail and part of the maintenance/integration of the code.

Sharedrops are done on BitShares voluntarily because it is in the best interest of a developer to gain the support of a community that already understands the technology.  Never forget that.

We are a very desirable demographic.  More desirable if we give a developer a huge boost when she announces.
If we start feeling angry and entitled, most entrepreneurs will have just one word for us:  Phffft!

Of course, sharedropping on BitShares does greatly improve your chances of getting the latest software and key developer support.     :)

« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:31:53 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #292 on: August 14, 2015, 12:27:15 pm »
Where is Brownie.PTS now? I think a lot of people here could use HUGS right now. :)

Disclaimer : Yes this is bytemasters asset that he paid to issue and he can do with it what he like's however he like's and anyone else can sharedrop to it however they want and no one can change that.

How are we supposed to get them these days outside of attending the Hangouts?  I've dropped approximately 100,000 words of BitShares history in transcripts since the last time I saw a Brownie.PTS (and I know I'm not alone). Shall I and many others assume we're on bytemaster's shitlist since we don't get Brownie.PTS for contributing? I guess I don't get how this all works. Everyone was asked to post in a thread about what they've done and some Brownie.PTS were sent about 2 months ago or so. Are we supposed to keep posting each time we do something we think is worthy of a Brownie.PTS nod from @bytemaster or will he simply know we contributed or how do we know when to stop begging for Brownie.PTS for contributing because we didn't know we were on a shitlist?   ;D

Also in a rough estimate I pulled from my arse and some data obtained on another page it appears that 2.5% of the BitShares forum community are considered "contributors".  This means 97.5% of the forum members are not "contributors" and will not be sharedropped to. Does that number seem high or low to you? Do you (bytemaster) foresee any issues with the community if 97.5% feel excluded and a portion of the 2.5% feel under-hugged for whatever reason?   :o

"I'm just asking questions. Please don't shitlist me!"

You just want to *hug* bytemaster and the brownie points serve as your proxy because you're afraid of the TSA and will never make it to Blacksburg, admit it.   :-*

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #293 on: August 14, 2015, 12:36:33 pm »
We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.


False.

Graphene was developed by the developers with their own sweat equity when their delegate pay dropped to a couple days a month.  During that time BitShares paid only for answering the fan mail and part of the maintenance/integration of the code.

Sharedrops are done on BitShares voluntarily because it is in the best interest of a developer to gain the support of a community that already understands the technology.  Never forget that.

We are a very desirable demographic.  More desirable if we give a developer a huge boost when she announces.
If we start feeling angry and entitled, most entrepreneurs will have just one word for us:  Phffft!

Of course, sharedropping on BitShares does greatly improve your chances of getting the latest software and key developer support.     :)
This. ... +5%
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #294 on: August 14, 2015, 12:40:11 pm »
Where is Brownie.PTS now? I think a lot of people here could use HUGS right now. :)

Disclaimer : Yes this is bytemasters asset that he paid to issue and he can do with it what he like's however he like's and anyone else can sharedrop to it however they want and no one can change that.

How are we supposed to get them these days outside of attending the Hangouts?  I've dropped approximately 100,000 words of BitShares history in transcripts since the last time I saw a Brownie.PTS (and I know I'm not alone). Shall I and many others assume we're on bytemaster's shitlist since we don't get Brownie.PTS for contributing? I guess I don't get how this all works. Everyone was asked to post in a thread about what they've done and some Brownie.PTS were sent about 2 months ago or so. Are we supposed to keep posting each time we do something we think is worthy of a Brownie.PTS nod from [member=5]bytemaster[/member] or will he simply know we contributed or how do we know when to stop begging for Brownie.PTS for contributing because we didn't know we were on a shitlist?   ;D

Also in a rough estimate I pulled from my arse and some data obtained on another page it appears that 2.5% of the BitShares forum community are considered "contributors".  This means 97.5% of the forum members are not "contributors" and will not be sharedropped to. Does that number seem high or low to you? Do you (bytemaster) foresee any issues with the community if 97.5% feel excluded and a portion of the 2.5% feel under-hugged for whatever reason?   :o

"I'm just asking questions. Please don't shitlist me!"


In some categories that have a "standardized" treatment Bytemaster has delegated distribution to volunteers.
For the rest, he has asked people to help by posting what they've done in a designated thread.
From time to time he processes that thread and leaves behind a bookmark saying "I think I'm caught up."
If you feel you've been missed or do something new, add it to the list.
BM is not omniscient, he is merely all-knowing.

:)


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #295 on: August 14, 2015, 01:09:17 pm »

No one understands clearly how brownies are distributed... And for some opaque instrument to warrant the same value as bts seems wrong.  Any investor from the past year has paid dearly for the development of graphene... Through the merger and all the pumps and promises.

That said, brownies could be a good idea if they were better defined and detailed.

Ok, ok, we'll tell you the secret formula!

The goal is to make brownies reflect who has been active and helpful while keeping a bit of a fun random lottery component. 

Step 1:  First Bytemaster makes an infallible assessment (accurate to 9 decimal places) of how much he appreciates something someone has done.

Step 2:  We run that number through a random number generator (our overworked, chaotic business processes) where it gets multiplied by a number from 0 to 2 (again to 9 decimal places).

The net result is the number of brownies you receive - part lottery and part reward for a job well done.

If you are an entrepreneur looking for an optimal mailing list to distribute your coin and you want to target active community members with a bit of a lottery to it, then Brownie.PTS is a great choice.

It's a precisely targeted helicopter drop with a bit of swirling wind in the air.






Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #296 on: August 14, 2015, 01:25:06 pm »
August 13 of this thread.. why I don't like sharedropping.

If he had smartdropped a set rate to those that sought it out, nobody would have anything to complain about.

Regardless.. the obvious is missing here.. It's 100% HIS choice who or what he will sharedrop on. It doesn't matter how fair or unfair it looks to others, it was ultimately up to John et. his org what type of goals they wanted to accomplish with it.

You can call it whatever you like.. but at the end of the day for all you freedom lovers.. it's HIS CHOICE who he WANTS to sharedrop on.. there is absolutely no obligation to anybody to take any such actions today.

Just like you have all been free to to speak out against it on this platform and likely have burned (pardon the pun) any likelyhood of anybody wanting to sharedrop on anything related to the BitShares community again less they should suffer the stink of a handful of hornets in the nest, they have the freedom to launch their coin as they see fit.

It's not yours, it's theirs.

If I have a new coin or UIA and I decide that brownie.pts is a good 'list' to reach a certain demographic that I want.. who is anybody to judge otherwise?

Where is Brownie.PTS now? I think a lot of people here could use HUGS right now. :)

We payed for his blockchain protocol via delegate pay. That's why we deserve a share drop.

Dan/Stan were able to whisper in Underwood's ear to donate 20% to some asset that they have complete control over.   Your telling me that brownie holders have done the same amount for developing graphene as bts holders?

No one understands clearly how brownies are distributed... And for some opaque instrument to warrant the same value as bts seems wrong.  Any investor from the past year has paid dearly for the development of graphene... Through the merger and all the pumps and promises.

That said, brownies could be a good idea if they were better defined and detailed.
This would hold all true if there was no distribution on anything else.. it just happens the brownies get a bit more.. so social consensus is fulfilled regardless.. going forward though this idea of the social consensus has to step down.. it's technically over.... it just happened to fit into John's plans.

So is the consensus that new chains should drop 20% on BTS for using Graphene?  How was this decided?  Documented anywhere?

Offline Buck Fankers

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Under New Management
    • View Profile
    • TuckFheman.com
  • BitShares: buckfankers
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #297 on: August 14, 2015, 01:37:52 pm »
In some categories that have a "standardized" treatment Bytemaster has delegated distribution to volunteers.
For the rest, he has asked people to help by posting what they've done in a designated thread.
From time to time he processes that thread and leaves behind a bookmark saying "I think I'm caught up."

Ok thanks. Since I posted to the thread previously and did not receive Brownie.PTS afterwards should I assume I'm not contributing anything worthwhile? At what point should I stop groveling publicly or is that based upon each individual's level of shame (mine's pretty low so I stopped posting after one rejection)?  :-\

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • You need to think BIGGER, Pinky...
    • View Profile
    • Cryptonomex
  • BitShares: Stan
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #298 on: August 14, 2015, 01:51:50 pm »
In some categories that have a "standardized" treatment Bytemaster has delegated distribution to volunteers.
For the rest, he has asked people to help by posting what they've done in a designated thread.
From time to time he processes that thread and leaves behind a bookmark saying "I think I'm caught up."

Ok thanks. Since I posted to the thread previously and did not receive Brownie.PTS afterwards should I assume I'm not contributing anything worthwhile? At what point should I stop groveling publicly or is that based upon each individual's level of shame (mine's pretty low so I stopped posting after one rejection)?  :-\

Given all you do, I'm sure that's not the case.  PM BM if you don't want to ask about it publicly.  He's trying to get a hundred things done and sometimes he's interrupted recursively till he has a stack overflow and loses his place in the old todo list.  He's about to get some help in that category, so we'll see if things improve.


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Re: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)
« Reply #299 on: August 14, 2015, 01:54:57 pm »
In some categories that have a "standardized" treatment Bytemaster has delegated distribution to volunteers.
For the rest, he has asked people to help by posting what they've done in a designated thread.
From time to time he processes that thread and leaves behind a bookmark saying "I think I'm caught up."

Ok thanks. Since I posted to the thread previously and did not receive Brownie.PTS afterwards should I assume I'm not contributing anything worthwhile? At what point should I stop groveling publicly or is that based upon each individual's level of shame (mine's pretty low so I stopped posting after one rejection)?  :-\

Based on each person's level of shame I imagine. Perhaps publicly grovel some more and also apologise for having the temerity to question your brownies and you might find yourself in his favour again.

I may reward them (or not) as I see fit, in the amounts I see fit, for the reasons I see fit.   I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.
If you want to take the island burn the boats