Author Topic: Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)  (Read 140417 times)

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Offline donkeypong

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Newmine, you're missing the point. If it were an airdrop to the general public, you'd be right, but it's a sharedrop to the community.

Offline NewMine

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This is hilarious.

Share dropping on Brownie.PTS is brilliant!

The less you give to the masses and the more you give to the circlejerk could only help identabit or Maker spread to the masses.  Kinda of like a massive mail campaign only sending ads to people who live on East 20th streets across the U.S., or only to those who have XX in their email address.

Great plan!




Offline lil_jay890

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As Dan said originally, it's his way of keeping score, using tokens that represent entries in a ledger of people he appreciates.  Since the terms of those tokens were clearly laid out in the OP and they only have to satisfy Dan's purposes, no one else's. 

You are free to burn them or trade them or ignore them or HODL them.  He is free to use them as a demonstration of what the technology can do.  A whole lot of banks and companies need a token that can be issued and reclaimed according to law, so if nothing else, consider Brownies to be a product demonstration to potential customers.

But it's not "nothing else" and it's not just a way of keeping score. It's an active sharedrop target, one that you are actively promoting at the expense of BTS. Brownies are being panic-bought with BTS.

Even at this brownie point high vs bts, I got paid approx $0.40 per hour in brownies for promoting and getting a great interview for Bitshares.

Offline triox

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As Dan said originally, it's his way of keeping score, using tokens that represent entries in a ledger of people he appreciates.  Since the terms of those tokens were clearly laid out in the OP and they only have to satisfy Dan's purposes, no one else's. 

You are free to burn them or trade them or ignore them or HODL them.  He is free to use them as a demonstration of what the technology can do.  A whole lot of banks and companies need a token that can be issued and reclaimed according to law, so if nothing else, consider Brownies to be a product demonstration to potential customers.

But it's not "nothing else" and it's not just a way of keeping score. It's an active sharedrop target, one that you are actively promoting at the expense of BTS. Brownies are being panic-bought with BTS.

Offline Erlich Bachman

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If Brownie PTS is not the most effective infomercial for User Issued Assets (virtual social currency), then please point me in the right direction.

If you have a problem with Brownie Points, then I dare you to issue your own personal currency and see if you can do better. 

Peertracks is just a UIA community with a musical twist.   

If Underwood had just said that he was giving 10% of his company to Dan then you would not feel so strongly.  This is just the mechanism for simple and easy distribution to Dan's friends via UIA's.

Oh, yeah, and this successful distribution mechanism is powered by bitshares

And for all you guys crying about the fact that Dan can take Brownie points back.  Has he ever done such a thing?  Then why would you be worried about something that has never happened in the history of planet earth.  You will worry yourself to death with such fear of the unprecedented.

But you are free to stress about earth spontaneously combusting tomorrow.  It's your right, but what will the new customers think when they try our forum for a few minutes and see a bunch of crybabies all yelling and screaming:

"the sky is falling!!"

and yet you say that you want the price of BTS to rise?  That's certainly not what you are portraying here in our "house of teaching the positivity of our platform"
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 09:54:13 pm by Erlich Bachman »
You own the network, but who pays for development?

Offline Stan

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As Dan said originally, it's his way of keeping score, using tokens that represent entries in a ledger of people he appreciates.  The terms of those tokens were clearly laid out in the OP and they only have to satisfy Dan's purposes, no one else's. 

You are free to burn them or trade them or ignore them or HODL them.  He is free to use them as a demonstration of what the technology can do.  A whole lot of banks and companies need a token that can be issued and reclaimed according to law, so if nothing else, consider Brownies to be a product demonstration to potential customers.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 11:40:35 pm by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline CLains

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Brownie points have value because of BM's reputation. Anyone is free to accuse BM of anything. If community consensus judges against BM, his reputation and the brownie points he controls would suffer in value. That's just the nature of reputation in an open community, and that's what these points are based on.

Offline Empirical1.2

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I'm not saying it's my ideal system mind you.  Just that it's not slavery.

If you were to sell all future fruits of your labor in perpetuity.  (Income tax). That could be considered slavery. Maybe that's what you meant.

I understand your disdain for kowtowing to the ptb.  I have always considered you an intelligent well spoken individual, and respect you for speaking your mind. 

I do however think you're overreacting.  It's true.  All brownies actually belong to Dan.  Regardless of whose wallet they happen to be in. 

While I may now have an incentive not to disagree with Dan, that is very different from slavery. 

Yes. I didn't say it was slavery but just referenced voluntary slavery,  saying there were some similarities imo.

But personally, I do strongly consider it a form of personal subjugation to participate in Brownies for the reasons I stated earlier above.

(I wouldn't voluntarily participate in something where property was controlled in that manner and also attempted to influence free speech/dissent with threats of confiscation.)

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 08:25:25 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline puppies

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I broke the quote chain empirical since it was getting so long. 

I don't consider giving up the right to control your property slavery, but rather a transfer of actual ownership of that property.  As long as self ownership is not constrained I don't see slavery.

I'm not saying it's my ideal system mind you.  Just that it's not slavery.

If you were to sell all future fruits of your labor in perpetuity.  (Income tax). That could be considered slavery. Maybe that's what you meant.

I understand your disdain for kowtowing to the ptb.  I have always considered you an intelligent well spoken individual, and respect you for speaking your mind. 

I do however think you're overreacting.  It's true.  All brownies actually belong to Dan.  Regardless of whose wallet they happen to be in. 

While I may now have an incentive not to disagree with Dan, that is very different from slavery. 

I still have a choice and will voice my displeasure or disagreements as I see fit.  Just like iI always have.  He retains the right to remove his property from my wallet as he sees fit.  So be it.

I don't think this suddenly makes Dan "the man"
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Tuck Fheman

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I don't have a problem with the sharedrop per se - I could hardly care less since I view all those other projects as a distractive vaporware with no chance of succeeding.

What I do strongly object to is Bitshares' developers and maintainers undermining Bitshares value proposition by starting a competing token and actively promoting it to business partners.


Offline Empirical1.2

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it's beyond me how ungrateful some of you are. if a developer decides to sharedrop on us, first thing ANYONE should do is thank them and encourage them. how they sharedrop is their business, no idea how and why some think they have the right to interfere.

 +5%

You have been given a gift, and some are upset because they don't think the gift has been equitably distributed.

Lets assume there are two beggars standing next to each other on the street.  Someone walks up to the first one, and hands him a a $20 bill.  Then turns to the second beggar and hands him a $100 bill.

First of all is this a fair distribution of funds?  Yes it is.  As long as the money belonged to the giver.  Regardless of the reason chosen by the giver to distribute this way.
Should beggar number one feel Jealous?  I probably would.
Does beggar number two owe anything to beggar number one?  I would say no.
Should beggar number one whine complain and demand equal dispensation?  what do you think?

One of the differences in your example is that the gift then becomes the property of the beggars.

With BROWNIES whether they were gifted/bought/other,  they can be taken away anytime by your master, for expressing any free speech/dissent regards their issuance or for any trivial reason at all. 

  I may reward them (or not) as I see fit, in the amounts I see fit, for the reasons I see fit.   I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.

It reminds me a little of a voluntary slavery contract actually  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery

Quote
Voluntary slavery (or self-sale) is the condition of slavery entered into at a point of voluntary consent.
Since the slave loses his status as a moral agent once the slave contract is enforced, the slave cannot act to enforce anything owed to him by his master

Perhaps a poor analogy, but regardless, how any free man, could subjugate himself to the terms & conditions of BROWNIES is beyond me.

Good point about the analogy not fitting the situation.  You don't own your brownies like those two beggars would own their bills.  I don't think that the fact that the gift is reversible changes the morality at all though.  The point was about Jealousy, Envy, and unequal distribution.  I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

In regards to slavery I don't think I could disagree with you more.

The crux of slavery is choice. 

Regardless as to whether brownies can be withdrawn no ones freedom of choice has been infringed upon.

Quote
The crux of slavery is choice. 

That's why I referenced voluntary slavery which is slavery entered into by choice. Brownie holders choose to participate in a system where their property is controlled by their master and they have no rights over that property and expressing free speech or dissent will very likely result in the confiscation of their Brownies.

Regards unequal distribution of gifts per say (Where the gifts become your property) of course it's up to the giver.
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline topcandle

How do we balance this with the sharedrop that Bitshares dev core team gets from inflation?  They will get to double dip in both Brownie Pts and the newly minted BTS.  This can yet be another controversial piece.

Nobody calls a compensation package with multiple features a "double dip".    So it would be totally reasonable (and often done in practice) to give an employee a small salary, a bonus, and some stock options.  People who do work for startups generally agree to some mix of benefits.

And "we" do not do the balancing for Identabit anyway.  This is a decision by a new chain developer about how to distribute his genesis block to maximize success.  He decided to honor the 20% consensus for BitShares and go beyond that to do something special for a group of people who made the ecosystem what it is today.  No other factors than that need be considered.

But if he wanted to give them all to Snoop Dog, that would be his business.

So your saying that the orginal social contract is now broken, since now that 20% drop is on a "inflated Bitshares" amount.  The full 20% is not fully going to orginal BTS, PTS and AGS holders.  No delegates and dev core are slowing siphoning off % amounts.  By your definition its okay to give bonsuses to those who are working for the DAC, if its done by silent inflation.  This is disappointing to see how far bitshares has veered from its roots.  We can imagine in the future, orginal BTS, AGS, PTS will only get 5% off a 20% sharedrop from the inflation introduced.  Why can't that happen?  You've certainly opened the possibility of this occuring.

Original social contract is official broken if there is no clarify on this.  BTS should get a larger stake, just 1% more since you've introduced greater risks to your social consensus. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 07:39:11 pm by topcandle »
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Offline nomoreheroes7

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it's beyond me how ungrateful some of you are. if a developer decides to sharedrop on us, first thing ANYONE should do is thank them and encourage them. how they sharedrop is their business, no idea how and why some think they have the right to interfere.

I don't have a problem with the sharedrop per se - I could hardly care less since I view all those other projects as a distractive vaporware with no chance of succeeding.

What I do strongly object to is Bitshares' developers and maintainers undermining Bitshares value proposition by starting a competing token and actively promoting it to business partners.

 +5% exactly

Offline puppies

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it's beyond me how ungrateful some of you are. if a developer decides to sharedrop on us, first thing ANYONE should do is thank them and encourage them. how they sharedrop is their business, no idea how and why some think they have the right to interfere.

 +5%

You have been given a gift, and some are upset because they don't think the gift has been equitably distributed.

Lets assume there are two beggars standing next to each other on the street.  Someone walks up to the first one, and hands him a a $20 bill.  Then turns to the second beggar and hands him a $100 bill.

First of all is this a fair distribution of funds?  Yes it is.  As long as the money belonged to the giver.  Regardless of the reason chosen by the giver to distribute this way.
Should beggar number one feel Jealous?  I probably would.
Does beggar number two owe anything to beggar number one?  I would say no.
Should beggar number one whine complain and demand equal dispensation?  what do you think?

One of the differences in your example is that the gift then becomes the property of the beggars.

With BROWNIES whether they were gifted/bought/other,  they can be taken away anytime by your master, for expressing any free speech/dissent regards their issuance or for any trivial reason at all. 

  I may reward them (or not) as I see fit, in the amounts I see fit, for the reasons I see fit.   I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.

It reminds me a little of a voluntary slavery contract actually  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_slavery

Quote
Voluntary slavery (or self-sale) is the condition of slavery entered into at a point of voluntary consent.
Since the slave loses his status as a moral agent once the slave contract is enforced, the slave cannot act to enforce anything owed to him by his master

Perhaps a poor analogy, but regardless, how any free man, could subjugate himself to the terms & conditions of BROWNIES is beyond me.

Good point about the analogy not fitting the situation.  You don't own your brownies like those two beggars would own their bills.  I don't think that the fact that the gift is reversible changes the morality at all though.  The point was about Jealousy, Envy, and unequal distribution.  I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

In regards to slavery I don't think I could disagree with you more.

The crux of slavery is choice. 

Regardless as to whether brownies can be withdrawn no ones freedom of choice has been infringed upon. 
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Offline triox

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it's beyond me how ungrateful some of you are. if a developer decides to sharedrop on us, first thing ANYONE should do is thank them and encourage them. how they sharedrop is their business, no idea how and why some think they have the right to interfere.

I don't have a problem with the sharedrop per se - I could hardly care less since I view all those other projects as a distractive vaporware with no chance of succeeding.

What I do strongly object to is Bitshares' developers and maintainers undermining Bitshares value proposition by starting a competing token and actively promoting it to business partners.