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Offline emailtooaj

Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« on: September 01, 2015, 05:12:23 PM »

Hey everyone,

I'm posting this into the General section so we can get this Hangout pushed out into the forums main traffic.

From what I gather, this past Saturday's Hangout is just the first of many to come  :D
Tentatively these Hangouts with John Underwood (Identabit) will occur weekly, every Saturday @ 5pm EST.

So help yourselves and listen to this weeks first recording in regards to this project and stay in the know.!

https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-hangout-8-29-2015-s3-john-underwood-identabit

@Fav - if you think this post needs moved...could you at least keep this here please for a couple days before moving, or until we start a dedicated sticky??? Thanks!


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Offline mike623317

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2015, 05:49:09 PM »
That was one of the best hangouts I have ever heard. John Underwood really laid out some very valid points regarding identabit and bitcoin.

I'm glad to hear there will be several follow up mumble sessions with john.

 +5%

Offline yellowecho

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 02:48:48 PM »
Really enjoyed this; thanks for posting and looking forward to Identabit!
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline chryspano

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 04:51:44 PM »
That was one of the best hangouts I have ever heard. John Underwood really laid out some very valid points regarding identabit and bitcoin.

I'm glad to hear there will be several follow up mumble sessions with john.

 +5%

 +5% +5% +5%

Offline werneo

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 05:31:51 PM »
This was a terrific hangout. John Underwood is wonderfully thoughtful, expert and articulate. He's an amazing partner for BitShares.

I just have one constructive criticism about the format. Fuzzy, I hope you take this the right way. I greatly appreciate your contribution to BitShares and I completely acknowledge the importance of your efforts with Beyond Bitcoin. But I think it's essential for you as the MC of Beyond Bitcoin to understand the difference between a conversation and an interview. Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Again, fuzzy, I greatly appreciate you and I don't want you to feel like I am raining on anything you are doing. You are an essential part of this project, and I totally respect your efforts. I just wanted to get this off my chest and maybe at least start a dialog about it. This is something I have noted in the past in your weekly shows with Dan. But IMO the show with John Underwood really illustrates the problem and hopefully you will listen to the show yourself when you get a chance, and you might hear what I am talking about.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 06:08:24 PM »
This was a terrific hangout. John Underwood is wonderfully thoughtful, expert and articulate. He's an amazing partner for BitShares.

I just have one constructive criticism about the format. Fuzzy, I hope you take this the right way. I greatly appreciate your contribution to BitShares and I completely acknowledge the importance of your efforts with Beyond Bitcoin. But I think it's essential for you as the MC of Beyond Bitcoin to understand the difference between a conversation and an interview. Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Again, fuzzy, I greatly appreciate you and I don't want you to feel like I am raining on anything you are doing. You are an essential part of this project, and I totally respect your efforts. I just wanted to get this off my chest and maybe at least start a dialog about it. This is something I have noted in the past in your weekly shows with Dan. But IMO the show with John Underwood really illustrates the problem and hopefully you will listen to the show yourself when you get a chance, and you might hear what I am talking about.

Fuzzy has been one of the rocks in the wild sea for bitshares and he has all my honest respect for making beyond bitcoin to what it is today!!

In the spirit of werneo I'll add this: I have made the observation that whenever bytemaster (partly also with John) introduces something new (a new feature for example) the "fuzzy reaction" :) is as if the wheel has been reinvented.
My point: If every small innovation even if it is only an idea is hyped excessively the overall presentation of these ideas / announcements loose their credibility.

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 06:38:30 PM »
This was a terrific hangout. John Underwood is wonderfully thoughtful, expert and articulate. He's an amazing partner for BitShares.

I just have one constructive criticism about the format. Fuzzy, I hope you take this the right way. I greatly appreciate your contribution to BitShares and I completely acknowledge the importance of your efforts with Beyond Bitcoin. But I think it's essential for you as the MC of Beyond Bitcoin to understand the difference between a conversation and an interview. Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Again, fuzzy, I greatly appreciate you and I don't want you to feel like I am raining on anything you are doing. You are an essential part of this project, and I totally respect your efforts. I just wanted to get this off my chest and maybe at least start a dialog about it. This is something I have noted in the past in your weekly shows with Dan. But IMO the show with John Underwood really illustrates the problem and hopefully you will listen to the show yourself when you get a chance, and you might hear what I am talking about.

Fuzzy has been one of the rocks in the wild sea for bitshares and he has all my honest respect for making beyond bitcoin to what it is today!!

In the spirit of werneo I'll add this: I have made the observation that whenever bytemaster (partly also with John) introduces something new (a new feature for example) the "fuzzy reaction" :) is as if the wheel has been reinvented.
My point: If every small innovation even if it is only an idea is hyped excessively the overall presentation of these ideas / announcements loose their credibility.

"Wow man... this is huge"

Offline Method-X

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 08:57:32 PM »
Wow, that really was an awesome interview! I'll admit I had little interest in the project until I listened to this. +5%

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 12:13:32 AM »
It's a good interview.  I don't  think Identabit will scale well because the big doors will be locked, also on the technology side they will have nothing that can't be replicated and they don't have the super massive funding that's required to compete with the likes of Blythe Masters and such ('It's on the blockhain' - Bloomberg Magazines Cover story 2 days ago http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-09-01/blythe-masters-tells-banks-the-blockchain-changes-everything )

In his intro John  identifies how a key difference between crypto and current payment options is convenience and simplicity however I would argue the simplicity, convenience & payment integration of crypto is only starting to take shape. With 1 second vs. 30 minute confirmation times. Crypto-funded debit cards, payment apps & stable BitAssets only starting to be introduced. I think it is too early to make his judgement. 

Also he makes some statements about Bitcoin use and demographics that I don't think are backed up by the facts.
The vast majority of Bitcoiners were young tech savvy Libertarian males not a small group of elites only using it for extremely illicit activity & as Bitcoin becomes more user friendly this demographic is naturally becoming less tech savvy and from a broader political spectrum attracted by the various now more accessible benefits Bitcoin provides.

25 Sept 2014 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/bitcoin-economy-widens-as-parents-pay-digital-allowance

Quote
People worldwide have opened 41 million bitcoin accounts, according to the Bank of England. Global spending on goods and services has doubled in the past year.

Parents are dispensing allowances in bitcoins so their kids learn to be digital citizens.Consumers in emerging markets such as Brazil and Russia are starting to use bitcoin to hedge against currency volatility.

Three factors are attracting consumers to bitcoin. The currency is less volatile. New apps and digital wallets make using it easier. And mainstream companies -- more than 75,000, according to payment services Coinbase and BitPay -- accept the virtual currency

Even if you were to focus exclusively on crypto's black market use. The black market accounts for over 23% of global GDP and in countries such as Greece  it's pushing 25-30%. 

Quote
Bitcoin ATMs could spring up across Greece as soon as October as citizens and businesses become increasingly desperate to move their money despite capital controls.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/19/greece-could-soon-get-1000-bitcoin-atms.html

That is a massive portion of the economy and population already operating outside the reach of traditional institutions. The reason crypto-currencies not owned by the big banks have the potential to be massively profitable & scalable is precisely because the traditional institutions are largely excluded from directly participating in it.

I also think it's possible to integrate social media accounts onto crypto blockchains for the less privacy concerned users and so still gain certain network effect benefits.. 

I think Bitcoin has struggled in price because of the high costs which he identified but also the volatility which means the massive increase in use of Bitcoin by consumers for traditional goods and services creates a net downward pressure on price because businesses operating on extremely tight margins have to exchange BTC revenue immediately for fiat. However despite it's volatility, Bitcoin is very popular fro currency hedging vs. rapidly depreciating currencies in South America as indicated in the article above . Also in places like Greece as a safe haven currency outside their failing banking system. 

However stable Smartcoins are much better suited to this and BitUSD is in many instances far more useful than fiat USD. So we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible in these markets.

Also this is a global trend. Governments in many countries will be instigating strict capital controls to protect their currencies and their financial system.
(China just increased capital controls yesterday.) As a result I suspect, even with the Identity element most financial institutions would be not be allowed to interact with Identabit anyway. Or the Identabit gateways would have to enforce these restrictions too in which case Identabit would lose it's USP to the majority of the future mainstream market imo. (An inflation hedge and currency outside the over-leveraged banking system.)

So while I see a market for Identabit especially in remittances if they already have a partnership with a bank and can thus remove  a layer of transaction complexity. I think centralised blockchains started by big players will dominate. (Centralised blockchains will likely dominate his target market because it seems unlikely that people who didn't value the benefits of optional anonymity & financial freedom would then highly value the benefits/USP's of decentral vs. centralisation.) So I think that the really big future still lies with the traditional, anonymity optional crypto, but with much lower costs than Bitcoin and stable BitAssets.

Edit: On a side note the use of USD at black market rates in countries like Argentina, shows how an entire population, economy and businesses can get behind using a currency outside of institutions and regulatory compliance
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 12:39:55 PM by Empirical1.2 »
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Tuck Fheman

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 01:32:36 AM »
If anyone wants to contribute Brownie Points or BTS to Tuck's Possible Future Carpal Tunnel Surgery Fund, I'd be willing to sacrifice a few pinched nerves to whip up a transcript of this Hangout.

If interested, send Brownies to : tuckfheman-com
with Memo : IDentabit 8/29 Hangout Transcript

If 10,000 Brownie Points (or the equivalent, designated for this transcript) are received by 9/30, I'll do the transcript within 7 days.
If it does not reach the target by 9/30, I'll refund all funds.

Note: There is a chance I'll just do it anyway and take my chances bytemaster hooks me up with some Brownies one day, but this will guarantee I do it. ;)




Offline James212

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 06:03:38 AM »
 +5%.  ....excellent interview. Greatly enjoyed hearing Mr Underwood's. Insightful perspective on block chain tech and executing a workable plan to succeed.   After listening to the interview I feel identabit is in fact addressing a number of bitshares critical blind spots that I've been concerned about.   Based on this conversation would seriously consider a further investment in the project if the opertunity becomes available.  It looks to me like identabit has the perfect combination bitshares' great technology and John's proven   ability to market and execute. 

Thank you Fuzzy for getting him on. 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 06:09:41 AM by James212 »
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 06:17:33 AM »
Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Yes, I did interrupt him a couple times when it seemed he was gaining steam and I also had a strong feeling that there would be people saying "nooooo fuzzy, please let him finish this part!".  It was intentionally done though because there is a bit of a layout in my head for how these initial hangouts are going to roll out.  Trust me, that hangout would have been so easy to just sit back and literally let John talk the entire time (remember when he asked me "is everyone here?"), but then it would have been 3 hours long and we are planning on scheduling more in the future right now.  So I had to cut him off and keep this conversation a bit in the general and introduction phase.

This was more of a hangout where he introduced himself and the basic ideas/concepts underlying IDentabit.  The future ones I will CERTAINLY NOT interrupt him when he is going into depth about the consensus (my big interest is Proof of Appreciation's full explanation).  Then of course:  "where exactly are the delegates and how do they come into play?" ...just to name a couple.

I appreciate the feedback, though, and will(do) try to take it into consideration.  Weird but the one thing I've learned over the years moderating group discussion is that it's kind of like walking a tight rope... 

(Regardless, I am SO glad to know you were a bit frustrated when I cut him off in a couple places because it means you wanted to hear what he will be saying in future hangouts! :P )
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 06:20:55 AM by fuzzy »
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Tuck Fheman

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 07:24:26 AM »
Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Yes, I did interrupt him a couple times when it seemed he was gaining steam and I also had a strong feeling that there would be people saying "nooooo fuzzy, please let him finish this part!".  It was intentionally done though because there is a bit of a layout in my head for how these initial hangouts are going to roll out.  Trust me, that hangout would have been so easy to just sit back and literally let John talk the entire time (remember when he asked me "is everyone here?"), but then it would have been 3 hours long and we are planning on scheduling more in the future right now.  So I had to cut him off and keep this conversation a bit in the general and introduction phase.

This was more of a hangout where he introduced himself and the basic ideas/concepts underlying IDentabit.  The future ones I will CERTAINLY NOT interrupt him when he is going into depth about the consensus (my big interest is Proof of Appreciation's full explanation).  Then of course:  "where exactly are the delegates and how do they come into play?" ...just to name a couple.

I appreciate the feedback, though, and will(do) try to take it into consideration.  Weird but the one thing I've learned over the years moderating group discussion is that it's kind of like walking a tight rope... 

(Regardless, I am SO glad to know you were a bit frustrated when I cut him off in a couple places because it means you wanted to hear what he will be saying in future hangouts! :P )


 :P

Offline emailtooaj

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 12:43:40 PM »
Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Yes, I did interrupt him a couple times when it seemed he was gaining steam and I also had a strong feeling that there would be people saying "nooooo fuzzy, please let him finish this part!".  It was intentionally done though because there is a bit of a layout in my head for how these initial hangouts are going to roll out.  Trust me, that hangout would have been so easy to just sit back and literally let John talk the entire time (remember when he asked me "is everyone here?"), but then it would have been 3 hours long and we are planning on scheduling more in the future right now.  So I had to cut him off and keep this conversation a bit in the general and introduction phase.

This was more of a hangout where he introduced himself and the basic ideas/concepts underlying IDentabit.  The future ones I will CERTAINLY NOT interrupt him when he is going into depth about the consensus (my big interest is Proof of Appreciation's full explanation).  Then of course:  "where exactly are the delegates and how do they come into play?" ...just to name a couple.

I appreciate the feedback, though, and will(do) try to take it into consideration.  Weird but the one thing I've learned over the years moderating group discussion is that it's kind of like walking a tight rope... 

(Regardless, I am SO glad to know you were a bit frustrated when I cut him off in a couple places because it means you wanted to hear what he will be saying in future hangouts! )


 
To freaking funny LOL !!!!
Sound Editor of Beyondbitcoin Hangouts. Listen to latest here - https://beyondbitcoin.org support the Hangouts! BTS Tri-Fold Brochure https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15169.0.html
Tip BROWNIE.PTS to EMAILTOOAJ

Offline fuzzy

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2015, 06:07:08 PM »
Listening to the show, I felt that you interrupted your guest multiple times and derailed his train of thought unnecessarily. Mr. Underwood is a captivating speaker and I was on the edge of my seat listening to his every word. It was very frustrating to hear the interviewer stepping on his guest and inserting lots of verbiage that was not always welcome.

Yes, I did interrupt him a couple times when it seemed he was gaining steam and I also had a strong feeling that there would be people saying "nooooo fuzzy, please let him finish this part!".  It was intentionally done though because there is a bit of a layout in my head for how these initial hangouts are going to roll out.  Trust me, that hangout would have been so easy to just sit back and literally let John talk the entire time (remember when he asked me "is everyone here?"), but then it would have been 3 hours long and we are planning on scheduling more in the future right now.  So I had to cut him off and keep this conversation a bit in the general and introduction phase.

This was more of a hangout where he introduced himself and the basic ideas/concepts underlying IDentabit.  The future ones I will CERTAINLY NOT interrupt him when he is going into depth about the consensus (my big interest is Proof of Appreciation's full explanation).  Then of course:  "where exactly are the delegates and how do they come into play?" ...just to name a couple.

I appreciate the feedback, though, and will(do) try to take it into consideration.  Weird but the one thing I've learned over the years moderating group discussion is that it's kind of like walking a tight rope... 

(Regardless, I am SO glad to know you were a bit frustrated when I cut him off in a couple places because it means you wanted to hear what he will be saying in future hangouts! )


 
To freaking funny LOL !!!!

And a tad unnecessary...though I must say I love the crocodile. :P
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

 

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