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Tuck Fheman

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2015, 04:16:06 AM »
And a tad unnecessary...though I must say I love the crocodile. :P

 :P  I know, but when you're about to post something and you can't stop laughing about it, the tendency is to just click POST and hope for the best later.

Also, in this image is a double edged sword.

It can be taken several ways and I figured the keen observer would realize this and therefore my ass was covered.

Either way you see it, I'll just go ... "yeah, that's what it meant!".  :P
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 04:18:07 AM by Tuck Fheman »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2015, 05:42:49 AM »
And a tad unnecessary...though I must say I love the crocodile. :P

 :P  I know, but when you're about to post something and you can't stop laughing about it, the tendency is to just click POST and hope for the best later.

Also, in this image is a double edged sword.

It can be taken several ways and I figured the keen observer would realize this and therefore my ass was covered.

Either way you see it, I'll just go ... "yeah, that's what it meant!".  :P

I can never say your posts aren't funny
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Offline Akado

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 07:22:45 PM »
So will Identabit sharedrop on Brownies? If it sharedrops 20% bts and 20%brownies, doesn't each brownie get (2,5B/10M) times more identabits than each bitshare?
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Offline underwun

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2015, 12:45:58 PM »
It's a good interview.  I don't  think Identabit will scale well because the big doors will be locked, also on the technology side they will have nothing that can't be replicated and they don't have the super massive funding that's required to compete with the likes of Blythe Masters and such ('It's on the blockhain' - Bloomberg Magazines Cover story 2 days ago http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-09-01/blythe-masters-tells-banks-the-blockchain-changes-everything )

In his intro John  identifies how a key difference between crypto and current payment options is convenience and simplicity however I would argue the simplicity, convenience & payment integration of crypto is only starting to take shape. With 1 second vs. 30 minute confirmation times. Crypto-funded debit cards, payment apps & stable BitAssets only starting to be introduced. I think it is too early to make his judgement.

Also he makes some statements about Bitcoin use and demographics that I don't think are backed up by the facts.
The vast majority of Bitcoiners were young tech savvy Libertarian males not a small group of elites only using it for extremely illicit activity & as Bitcoin becomes more user friendly this demographic is naturally becoming less tech savvy and from a broader political spectrum attracted by the various now more accessible benefits Bitcoin provides.

25 Sept 2014 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/bitcoin-economy-widens-as-parents-pay-digital-allowance

Quote
People worldwide have opened 41 million bitcoin accounts, according to the Bank of England. Global spending on goods and services has doubled in the past year.

Parents are dispensing allowances in bitcoins so their kids learn to be digital citizens.Consumers in emerging markets such as Brazil and Russia are starting to use bitcoin to hedge against currency volatility.

Three factors are attracting consumers to bitcoin. The currency is less volatile. New apps and digital wallets make using it easier. And mainstream companies -- more than 75,000, according to payment services Coinbase and BitPay -- accept the virtual currency

Even if you were to focus exclusively on crypto's black market use. The black market accounts for over 23% of global GDP and in countries such as Greece  it's pushing 25-30%. 

Quote
Bitcoin ATMs could spring up across Greece as soon as October as citizens and businesses become increasingly desperate to move their money despite capital controls.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/19/greece-could-soon-get-1000-bitcoin-atms.html

That is a massive portion of the economy and population already operating outside the reach of traditional institutions. The reason crypto-currencies not owned by the big banks have the potential to be massively profitable & scalable is precisely because the traditional institutions are largely excluded from directly participating in it.

I also think it's possible to integrate social media accounts onto crypto blockchains for the less privacy concerned users and so still gain certain network effect benefits.. 

I think Bitcoin has struggled in price because of the high costs which he identified but also the volatility which means the massive increase in use of Bitcoin by consumers for traditional goods and services creates a net downward pressure on price because businesses operating on extremely tight margins have to exchange BTC revenue immediately for fiat. However despite it's volatility, Bitcoin is very popular fro currency hedging vs. rapidly depreciating currencies in South America as indicated in the article above . Also in places like Greece as a safe haven currency outside their failing banking system. 

However stable Smartcoins are much better suited to this and BitUSD is in many instances far more useful than fiat USD. So we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible in these markets.

Also this is a global trend. Governments in many countries will be instigating strict capital controls to protect their currencies and their financial system.
(China just increased capital controls yesterday.) As a result I suspect, even with the Identity element most financial institutions would be not be allowed to interact with Identabit anyway. Or the Identabit gateways would have to enforce these restrictions too in which case Identabit would lose it's USP to the majority of the future mainstream market imo. (An inflation hedge and currency outside the over-leveraged banking system.)

So while I see a market for Identabit especially in remittances if they already have a partnership with a bank and can thus remove  a layer of transaction complexity. I think centralised blockchains started by big players will dominate. (Centralised blockchains will likely dominate his target market because it seems unlikely that people who didn't value the benefits of optional anonymity & financial freedom would then highly value the benefits/USP's of decentral vs. centralisation.) So I think that the really big future still lies with the traditional, anonymity optional crypto, but with much lower costs than Bitcoin and stable BitAssets.

Edit: On a side note the use of USD at black market rates in countries like Argentina, shows how an entire population, economy and businesses can get behind using a currency outside of institutions and regulatory compliance

I started with a detailed response but quickly realised this was an argument driven by emotion and hope. We wish you well.

There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline tonyk

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2015, 01:52:16 PM »
It's a good interview.  I don't  think Identabit will scale well because the big doors will be locked, also on the technology side they will have nothing that can't be replicated and they don't have the super massive funding that's required to compete with the likes of Blythe Masters and such ('It's on the blockhain' - Bloomberg Magazines Cover story 2 days ago http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-09-01/blythe-masters-tells-banks-the-blockchain-changes-everything )

In his intro John  identifies how a key difference between crypto and current payment options is convenience and simplicity however I would argue the simplicity, convenience & payment integration of crypto is only starting to take shape. With 1 second vs. 30 minute confirmation times. Crypto-funded debit cards, payment apps & stable BitAssets only starting to be introduced. I think it is too early to make his judgement.

Also he makes some statements about Bitcoin use and demographics that I don't think are backed up by the facts.
The vast majority of Bitcoiners were young tech savvy Libertarian males not a small group of elites only using it for extremely illicit activity & as Bitcoin becomes more user friendly this demographic is naturally becoming less tech savvy and from a broader political spectrum attracted by the various now more accessible benefits Bitcoin provides.

25 Sept 2014 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/bitcoin-economy-widens-as-parents-pay-digital-allowance

Quote
People worldwide have opened 41 million bitcoin accounts, according to the Bank of England. Global spending on goods and services has doubled in the past year.

Parents are dispensing allowances in bitcoins so their kids learn to be digital citizens.Consumers in emerging markets such as Brazil and Russia are starting to use bitcoin to hedge against currency volatility.

Three factors are attracting consumers to bitcoin. The currency is less volatile. New apps and digital wallets make using it easier. And mainstream companies -- more than 75,000, according to payment services Coinbase and BitPay -- accept the virtual currency

Even if you were to focus exclusively on crypto's black market use. The black market accounts for over 23% of global GDP and in countries such as Greece  it's pushing 25-30%. 

Quote
Bitcoin ATMs could spring up across Greece as soon as October as citizens and businesses become increasingly desperate to move their money despite capital controls.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/19/greece-could-soon-get-1000-bitcoin-atms.html

That is a massive portion of the economy and population already operating outside the reach of traditional institutions. The reason crypto-currencies not owned by the big banks have the potential to be massively profitable & scalable is precisely because the traditional institutions are largely excluded from directly participating in it.

I also think it's possible to integrate social media accounts onto crypto blockchains for the less privacy concerned users and so still gain certain network effect benefits.. 

I think Bitcoin has struggled in price because of the high costs which he identified but also the volatility which means the massive increase in use of Bitcoin by consumers for traditional goods and services creates a net downward pressure on price because businesses operating on extremely tight margins have to exchange BTC revenue immediately for fiat. However despite it's volatility, Bitcoin is very popular fro currency hedging vs. rapidly depreciating currencies in South America as indicated in the article above . Also in places like Greece as a safe haven currency outside their failing banking system. 

However stable Smartcoins are much better suited to this and BitUSD is in many instances far more useful than fiat USD. So we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible in these markets.

Also this is a global trend. Governments in many countries will be instigating strict capital controls to protect their currencies and their financial system.
(China just increased capital controls yesterday.) As a result I suspect, even with the Identity element most financial institutions would be not be allowed to interact with Identabit anyway. Or the Identabit gateways would have to enforce these restrictions too in which case Identabit would lose it's USP to the majority of the future mainstream market imo. (An inflation hedge and currency outside the over-leveraged banking system.)

So while I see a market for Identabit especially in remittances if they already have a partnership with a bank and can thus remove  a layer of transaction complexity. I think centralised blockchains started by big players will dominate. (Centralised blockchains will likely dominate his target market because it seems unlikely that people who didn't value the benefits of optional anonymity & financial freedom would then highly value the benefits/USP's of decentral vs. centralisation.) So I think that the really big future still lies with the traditional, anonymity optional crypto, but with much lower costs than Bitcoin and stable BitAssets.

Edit: On a side note the use of USD at black market rates in countries like Argentina, shows how an entire population, economy and businesses can get behind using a currency outside of institutions and regulatory compliance

I started with a detailed response but quickly realised this was an argument driven by emotion and hope. We wish you well.

John, I honestly hate the disregarding tone of your response. You could have just not answered if indeed that's your true thoughts. but you decided to go passive aggressive on one of the more thoughtful people around here (if you are not aware of that FACT take the time to read say last 50 posts of Empirical for self educating purposes,  I promise you it will be time well spent even with your busy schedule).

And while I do not have any strong thoughts one way or the other on the correctness of Empirical's analyses, I fail to see any strong emotions shown and have no clue what 'hope' are you talking about?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:06:37 PM by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline NewMine

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2015, 04:18:13 PM »
It's a good interview.  I don't  think Identabit will scale well because the big doors will be locked, also on the technology side they will have nothing that can't be replicated and they don't have the super massive funding that's required to compete with the likes of Blythe Masters and such ('It's on the blockhain' - Bloomberg Magazines Cover story 2 days ago http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-09-01/blythe-masters-tells-banks-the-blockchain-changes-everything )

In his intro John  identifies how a key difference between crypto and current payment options is convenience and simplicity however I would argue the simplicity, convenience & payment integration of crypto is only starting to take shape. With 1 second vs. 30 minute confirmation times. Crypto-funded debit cards, payment apps & stable BitAssets only starting to be introduced. I think it is too early to make his judgement.

Also he makes some statements about Bitcoin use and demographics that I don't think are backed up by the facts.
The vast majority of Bitcoiners were young tech savvy Libertarian males not a small group of elites only using it for extremely illicit activity & as Bitcoin becomes more user friendly this demographic is naturally becoming less tech savvy and from a broader political spectrum attracted by the various now more accessible benefits Bitcoin provides.

25 Sept 2014 - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/bitcoin-economy-widens-as-parents-pay-digital-allowance

Quote
People worldwide have opened 41 million bitcoin accounts, according to the Bank of England. Global spending on goods and services has doubled in the past year.

Parents are dispensing allowances in bitcoins so their kids learn to be digital citizens.Consumers in emerging markets such as Brazil and Russia are starting to use bitcoin to hedge against currency volatility.

Three factors are attracting consumers to bitcoin. The currency is less volatile. New apps and digital wallets make using it easier. And mainstream companies -- more than 75,000, according to payment services Coinbase and BitPay -- accept the virtual currency

Even if you were to focus exclusively on crypto's black market use. The black market accounts for over 23% of global GDP and in countries such as Greece  it's pushing 25-30%. 

Quote
Bitcoin ATMs could spring up across Greece as soon as October as citizens and businesses become increasingly desperate to move their money despite capital controls.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/19/greece-could-soon-get-1000-bitcoin-atms.html

That is a massive portion of the economy and population already operating outside the reach of traditional institutions. The reason crypto-currencies not owned by the big banks have the potential to be massively profitable & scalable is precisely because the traditional institutions are largely excluded from directly participating in it.

I also think it's possible to integrate social media accounts onto crypto blockchains for the less privacy concerned users and so still gain certain network effect benefits.. 

I think Bitcoin has struggled in price because of the high costs which he identified but also the volatility which means the massive increase in use of Bitcoin by consumers for traditional goods and services creates a net downward pressure on price because businesses operating on extremely tight margins have to exchange BTC revenue immediately for fiat. However despite it's volatility, Bitcoin is very popular fro currency hedging vs. rapidly depreciating currencies in South America as indicated in the article above . Also in places like Greece as a safe haven currency outside their failing banking system. 

However stable Smartcoins are much better suited to this and BitUSD is in many instances far more useful than fiat USD. So we haven't even scratched the surface of what's possible in these markets.

Also this is a global trend. Governments in many countries will be instigating strict capital controls to protect their currencies and their financial system.
(China just increased capital controls yesterday.) As a result I suspect, even with the Identity element most financial institutions would be not be allowed to interact with Identabit anyway. Or the Identabit gateways would have to enforce these restrictions too in which case Identabit would lose it's USP to the majority of the future mainstream market imo. (An inflation hedge and currency outside the over-leveraged banking system.)

So while I see a market for Identabit especially in remittances if they already have a partnership with a bank and can thus remove  a layer of transaction complexity. I think centralised blockchains started by big players will dominate. (Centralised blockchains will likely dominate his target market because it seems unlikely that people who didn't value the benefits of optional anonymity & financial freedom would then highly value the benefits/USP's of decentral vs. centralisation.) So I think that the really big future still lies with the traditional, anonymity optional crypto, but with much lower costs than Bitcoin and stable BitAssets.

Edit: On a side note the use of USD at black market rates in countries like Argentina, shows how an entire population, economy and businesses can get behind using a currency outside of institutions and regulatory compliance

I started with a detailed response but quickly realised this was an argument driven by emotion and hope. We wish you well.
Did you even read his post? There was no emotionally driven argument.

--

I wouldn't worry too much about this guy and his project, identabit, remitabit, or whateverbit. This guy is a classic opportunist and a VC vampire. Good for him if you people are dumb enough to buy into his sales pitch. He deserves every penny.  I suspected something fishy from the beginning when this guy's claim to fame was that he was CEO of Sun Micro Australian division. After researching him, I saw that he was CEO for a few months 31 years ago. Mind you this was 2 years after Sun Microsystems was founded, so you can imagine the scale of the division he was in charge of. He was a place holder in a small division of an infantile company(at the time) but yet this is number one selling point of why you should trust him? I would use this reference too if I had zero successful projects in the following 31 years. 

Mark my words, this guys project will never see the light of day, especially if he releases some value token previous to an actual working remitabit (errr, I mean identabit).

I will also bet you that you will respond to this emotionally driven argument, well probably not, since now I stated such.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 11:03:35 PM by newmine »

Tuck Fheman

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2015, 04:41:11 PM »

Offline chryspano

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2015, 04:43:59 PM »
newmine the great troll is out of his cave again...

Offline NewMine

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2015, 05:13:52 PM »
newmine the great troll is out of his cave again...

Hey dude, it totally sucks you didn't get any brownies and have to beg for them. You seriously deserve


Indeed, this is what has caused us to have to opportunity to buy BTS at all time lows right before launch.  I'll take it.

Now that pretty much everyone who isnt completely committed to the project has been pissed off and induced to dump their BTS at low prices, we'll be able to go up.


As to specifics of Brownies, Bytemaster can see the distribution since he controls the asset, but its a mystery to the rest of us.  "Regular users", if by that you mean forum regulars over the past year, probably got about 3000-6000 brownies depending on post count (at least, if they posted in the thread and bytemaster gave brownies).  Those who did dev work for BTS got tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of BTS, based on looking at the supply distribution.  (We cant see who they are, just how much is in different accounts).  As to people who didnt get them in those ways, they have to grind mumble sessions for DKP Brownies, or buy them.


Brownies are pretty much 'Bytemaster DKP' in my mind.  He will distribute the epic loots in time. ;)

I'm not sure this is true, I posted in the thread and never recieved any brownies. Also a asked a question for muble but the question was never asked in muble or answered in the muble thread.

I would like to give 1000 points per "block" for every forum member with more than 1 block.  (Heros, etc...) and I will give major points to someone who offers to hand them out.

Is this going to happen at some point?
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16318.msg228944.html#msg228944
Can we get this guy some brownies please?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 05:18:09 PM by newmine »

Offline chryspano

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2015, 06:04:37 PM »
Did I call you a Troll? Im really sorry newmine! LOL

BTW there is no need for brownies dear troll, I already bought a TON of them and you are still mising my point (or you pretend you do, as you always do!)

This must be a tough day for you newmine...



Remember this day because you will have o lot more like this one!

I'm curious for how long your masters will continue to pay you...I have a feeling the end of your journey is near....dear Troll!

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2015, 07:27:47 PM »
It's always interesting stopping by to see how divergent opinions are dealt with, it's unsurprising but sad to see nothing has changed.

Newmine is one of the very last dissenting voices that has had his warnings about the project ignored and suffered abuse at the hands of an overly protective community for quite some time. 

I'd also like to hear the answers to empiricals questions but given how many projects we've now seen partner with bitshares and then produce....nothing..... I have to ask what the value is of adding more partners when it's all just vapor?   Any planned launch date for Bitshares Music/Muse? 

Every time I check this forum I see no useful progress on the projects that took funding and haven't yet delivered anything usable but lots more dreams about what could be done in the future.    It would be great to see some working product instead of more promises and funding requests.

Offline chryspano

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2015, 08:06:28 PM »
Hey, newmine....
did you call for reinforcments?

It's  nice to see the good old AdamB we all know and love back...

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2015, 08:42:16 PM »
It's always interesting stopping by to see how divergent opinions are dealt with, it's unsurprising but sad to see nothing has changed.

Newmine is one of the very last dissenting voices that has had his warnings about the project ignored and suffered abuse at the hands of an overly protective community for quite some time. 

I'd also like to hear the answers to empiricals questions but given how many projects we've now seen partner with bitshares and then produce....nothing..... I have to ask what the value is of adding more partners when it's all just vapor?   Any planned launch date for Bitshares Music/Muse? 

Every time I check this forum I see no useful progress on the projects that took funding and haven't yet delivered anything usable but lots more dreams about what could be done in the future.    It would be great to see some working product instead of more promises and funding requests.

I can only assume that just "stopping by" doesn't give you enough information/background to grok newmine's modus operandi as a troll. He is very clever, so not surprising that he has fooled you too.

Tuck Fheman

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2015, 08:48:57 PM »
Newmine ... has had his warnings about the project ignored

I disagree. If anything, EVERYONE reads Newmine's post. ;) 

But yeah I know what you mean.

I think there are many who appreciate Newmines input but don't bother to get involved in the back-n-forth that usually follows.

He says what I'm sure a lot of people are thinking, but don't bother bringing up publicly out of fear of ... getting "Newmined".

and suffered abuse at the hands of an overly protective community for quite some time. 

Agreed.

I welcome(d) his research. All research is welcome, good or bad.

I think I've read people say it's his delivery that they have issues with, and that's when things get derailed.

It becomes a discussion about Newmine, instead of about Newmines information.

Like this post. ;)


Offline Stan

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Re: Identabit Hangout w/ John Underwood
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2015, 09:59:51 PM »
It's always interesting stopping by to see how divergent opinions are dealt with, it's unsurprising but sad to see nothing has changed.

Newmine is one of the very last dissenting voices that has had his warnings about the project ignored and suffered abuse at the hands of an overly protective community for quite some time. 

I'd also like to hear the answers to empiricals questions but given how many projects we've now seen partner with bitshares and then produce....nothing..... I have to ask what the value is of adding more partners when it's all just vapor?   Any planned launch date for Bitshares Music/Muse? 

Every time I check this forum I see no useful progress on the projects that took funding and haven't yet delivered anything usable but lots more dreams about what could be done in the future.    It would be great to see some working product instead of more promises and funding requests.

Actually most of our partners have been patiently waiting to get some of Dan's time to help them integrate Graphene.  BitShares gets to go first because of "seniority" and because it makes no sense to try to debug several new chains and business models until the core technology is thoroughly proven.  Most partners are chomping at the bit to get going and you can expect them in rapid succession once we heave BitShares 2.0 across the finish line.

So blame Dan.  He's the slacker taking time off to eat and sleep every day.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 10:07:49 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

 

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