Noir Investment Group : NoirShares

[biophil]

If i focus on talking about reasons to hold, i'll never stop talking but get little done. I want to get some things done then talk a bit, then rush back to more development. The fall of PTS is not a good thing for Invictus. 

Fair enough.

By the way, I thought of a way you could have honored the 10% social consensus while avoiding the risk of a sell-off at the beginning: simply write PTS and AGS holders into the genesis block and make their NRS unspendable for a certain length of time. You could even unlock their NRS a little at a time; maybe as a fraction of the miners' block reward. Then PTS and AGS holders are all happy since they've been invited to the party, and you're happy because they can't sell everything off all at once. In fact, this creates a particularly interesting incentive for PTS/AGS holders to contribute value to your venture, because they know that they can't sell until some time in the future. Thus, they want the value of NRS at that future time to be as high as possible.

Just something to chew on, but I realize it's probably too late now. Now I'll quit distracting you. Thanks for your time!

[barwizi]

I'm really not trying to be rude, but here's my take on this whole NIG thing so far: your fears that PTS holders will sell their NRS at their first opportunity are justified by the fact that you're not inspiring confidence in us!

If III does not step in to stabilize the price, it'll drop a lot after the snapshot....maybe then we can talk about PTS holder confidence

The price (of PTS) will drop after Feb 28 precisely because III has convinced people that BitShares X will have value. That is, the drop in price of PTS will be a perfect example of PTS holder confidence in Invictus! The drop in price will precisely reflect the confidence that PTS holders have in BitShares X.

Anyway, I'm not trying to tell you what to do with NRS; obviously that's your prerogative. I wish your venture well whether I'm a part of it or not. I'm just bewildered by your implicit assumption that it's somehow not your responsibility to convince owners of NRS to hold instead of to sell.

If i focus on talking about reasons to hold, i'll never stop talking but get little done. I want to get some things done then talk a bit, then rush back to more development. The fall of PTS is not a good thing for Invictus. 

[biophil]

I'm really not trying to be rude, but here's my take on this whole NIG thing so far: your fears that PTS holders will sell their NRS at their first opportunity are justified by the fact that you're not inspiring confidence in us!

If III does not step in to stabilize the price, it'll drop a lot after the snapshot....maybe then we can talk about PTS holder confidence

The price (of PTS) will drop after Feb 28 precisely because III has convinced people that BitShares X will have value. That is, the drop in price of PTS will be a perfect example of PTS holder confidence in Invictus! The drop in price will precisely reflect the confidence that PTS holders have in BitShares X.

Anyway, I'm not trying to tell you what to do with NRS; obviously that's your prerogative. I wish your venture well whether I'm a part of it or not. I'm just bewildered by your implicit assumption that it's somehow not your responsibility to convince owners of NRS to hold instead of to sell.

[barwizi]

I think the questions we're curious about (that nobody is answering directly) are:

1. Right now (not at some future date), can I import a PTS private key and claim NRS? I.e., am I currently entitled to some NRS?
2. If the answer to question (1) is "yes," then how do I import said PTS private key?

Thanks.

me too, i'm curious, when you have said NRS, what will you do with them?

I'll keep them safe and sound in my wallet as long as I believe that the NIG offers me more value for holding them than I'd get for selling them...

See, I can be vague and evasive too 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but here's my take on this whole NIG thing so far: your fears that PTS holders will sell their NRS at their first opportunity are justified by the fact that you're not inspiring confidence in us!

You seem to be a respected, hard-working, sincere member of the community, so I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But you seem to be missing the fact that PTS holders are the least likely to dump shares in a promising venture; we are the buy-and-holders of the crypto community who believe in things like the long-term value of DACs. If PTS holders dump your shares, it's because your business plan is this vague "hey we're going to launch stuff and there will be investment options" thing. Make us a real value proposition, and you won't have anything to worry about!

Now, having ranted a bit, I will say that NRS has clearly made progress over the past few weeks (exhibit 1: there's a windows qt that I don't have to compile from source!), and your business plan document does say something about how the NIG is structured...

So, here's my direct answer to your question: I won't participate in any market landslides by selling my NRS. That is, I might sell them, but only after the value has skyrocketed or after I've given up hope that there will ever be any value.

you'll notice i have not opened those options to anyone, as of yet. Investors will put a lot of trust and funds in my hands and i'd like to show them that we know what we are doing. Right now structuring and creating adequate balances and checks is important to ensure that no investor or developer or god forbid I can abuse the system. What do you term a "real value proposition" ? in my opinion, i have my an invitation and made my intentions clear, from here "value" is what you perceive it to be.   

NIG will develop and grow at a modest pace, even once we open the investment options we will always take careful steps, this is new territory and so 'd like to do thinks right.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but here's my take on this whole NIG thing so far: your fears that PTS holders will sell their NRS at their first opportunity are justified by the fact that you're not inspiring confidence in us!

If III does not step in to stabilize the price, it'll drop a lot after the snapshot....maybe then we can talk about PTS holder confidence

[biophil]

I think the questions we're curious about (that nobody is answering directly) are:

1. Right now (not at some future date), can I import a PTS private key and claim NRS? I.e., am I currently entitled to some NRS?
2. If the answer to question (1) is "yes," then how do I import said PTS private key?

Thanks.

me too, i'm curious, when you have said NRS, what will you do with them?

I'll keep them safe and sound in my wallet as long as I believe that the NIG offers me more value for holding them than I'd get for selling them...

See, I can be vague and evasive too 

I'm really not trying to be rude, but here's my take on this whole NIG thing so far: your fears that PTS holders will sell their NRS at their first opportunity are justified by the fact that you're not inspiring confidence in us!

You seem to be a respected, hard-working, sincere member of the community, so I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. But you seem to be missing the fact that PTS holders are the least likely to dump shares in a promising venture; we are the buy-and-holders of the crypto community who believe in things like the long-term value of DACs. If PTS holders dump your shares, it's because your business plan is this vague "hey we're going to launch stuff and there will be investment options" thing. Make us a real value proposition, and you won't have anything to worry about!

Now, having ranted a bit, I will say that NRS has clearly made progress over the past few weeks (exhibit 1: there's a windows qt that I don't have to compile from source!), and your business plan document does say something about how the NIG is structured...

So, here's my direct answer to your question: I won't participate in any market landslides by selling my NRS. That is, I might sell them, but only after the value has skyrocketed or after I've given up hope that there will ever be any value.

[barwizi]

I think the questions we're curious about (that nobody is answering directly) are:

1. Right now (not at some future date), can I import a PTS private key and claim NRS? I.e., am I currently entitled to some NRS?
2. If the answer to question (1) is "yes," then how do I import said PTS private key?

Thanks.

me too, i'm curious, when you have said NRS, what will you do with them?

[barwizi]

I tried importing my private PTS  address and got this error

Invalid private key (code -5)

git pull

make

[biophil]

I think the questions we're curious about (that nobody is answering directly) are:

1. Right now (not at some future date), can I import a PTS private key and claim NRS? I.e., am I currently entitled to some NRS?
2. If the answer to question (1) is "yes," then how do I import said PTS private key?

Thanks.

[cass]

I tried importing my private PTS  address and got this error

Invalid private key (code -5)

yes know issues and guessing it would be fixed on next update

[barwizi]

Maybe I missed it, could you please rephrase the details about pts sharesholding:
 - how many nrs do I get for 1pts
 - how was it achieved as chain is already out and running
 - at which block did that happen?

Thanks

You havent missed a thing unless you don't have any NRS at all.

you are right, the chain was already active by the time i figured out how to include balances. it has been suggested that a hard fork be implemented  at block 6000 to make it easy, but i am reluctant to endanger the functional chain in such a manner. We have considered system that will allow us to confirm the owners of addresses. while more complicated, it is the most sure fire way of ensuring fair allocation. If implemented immediately, i could even give 10%. It's long and taxing on me to do it that way, but it is the most feasible non-destructive way to do so. 

we have an existing snapshot with the balances and addresses, so at the opening of the investment options, we will publish a PTS address, every person whose address is in the snapshot and wishes to have NRS will send the bare minimum tx with their NRS address in the comment. this ensures easy verification that your address is in the list and what your NRS address is.

There are exactly 13105 addresses with balances greater than or equal to one, and a total of 46884 addresses with non zero balances. As you can see, even if only 1/10 of the community verifies, it's still a mammoth task. even the tx fees i will pay will be in the hundreds.

Do you think it's worth the hassle or should i just leave it as a bad job? I would allocate 24 - 36 hours to spend on this exercise.

[soniq]

I tried importing my private PTS  address and got this error

Invalid private key (code -5)

[xeroc]

Maybe I missed it, could you please rephrase the details about pts sharesholding:
 - how many nrs do I get for 1pts
 - how was it achieved as chain is already out and running
 - at which block did that happen?

Thanks

[biophil]

Sorry if this is obvious and somehow I missed it... But I think I've gathered that it's possible to import a PTS private key and claim NRS from the latest snapshot.

Is this true?

If so, is it easy to do?

My definition of easy:
1) download windows wallet.
2) muck around in debug.
3) be NRS owner.

Hopefully other people are confused like me 

My NRS addy: 9h9hHA4hqhzDkeq6VQQoScbtUCuxP4cPbt (I think? I'm using the windows qt that someone posted earlier)

is that the one you got after importing your PTS private key?

No, I haven't tried importing a private key. That's just the address that the windows qt gave me.

[barwizi]

Sorry if this is obvious and somehow I missed it... But I think I've gathered that it's possible to import a PTS private key and claim NRS from the latest snapshot.

Is this true?

If so, is it easy to do?

My definition of easy:
1) download windows wallet.
2) muck around in debug.
3) be NRS owner.

Hopefully other people are confused like me 

My NRS addy: 9h9hHA4hqhzDkeq6VQQoScbtUCuxP4cPbt (I think? I'm using the windows qt that someone posted earlier)

is that the one you got after importing your PTS private key?

[biophil]

Sorry if this is obvious and somehow I missed it... But I think I've gathered that it's possible to import a PTS private key and claim NRS from the latest snapshot.

Is this true?

If so, is it easy to do?

My definition of easy:
1) download windows wallet.
2) muck around in debug.
3) be NRS owner.

Hopefully other people are confused like me 

My NRS addy: 9h9hHA4hqhzDkeq6VQQoScbtUCuxP4cPbt (I think? I'm using the windows qt that someone posted earlier)