How to make Bitshares mineable while creating buying pressure

[luckybit]

I have zero knowledge about mining so I cannot really comment.

But if you define partnership with BC to let the miners mining altcoins and let them choose payout between BC or BTS I don't see why not partner with BTC or LTC or PPC which have bigger communities? What is it so special about BC? If BTS is more profitable the miners will leave BC and BTC and everything else to mine altcoins in BTS mining pool.

It's not about size it's about expertise and shared values. The Blackcoin community shares values with the Bitshares community because Blackcoin is a pure Proof of Stake coin. Their marketing is targeting the same demographics that Bitshares must target to be successful.

If an alliance isn't formed then Bitshares would have to compete with and take marketshare from Blackcoin and this benefits the Proof of Work currencies. Proof of Stake currencies like Bitshares and Blackcoin have Proof of Stake in common, and the kind of marketing required to make Blackcoin successful is the exact kind of marketing Bitshares will need to do in order to be successful.

Since the Blackcoin community is developing the expertise in this area, why should the Bitshares community waste time developing expertise when the Bitshares community can use some of it's crypto-equity to buy that expertise and turn them into allies overnight?

LTC is what Bitshares and Blackcoin are gunning for. The LTC community has more in common with Bitcoin because it's code is based on Bitcoin. Litecoin and Bitcoin are a different species and it's breed is called Proof of Work.

Sure they have marketed their coin efficiently. XPM also had a lot of publicity when it came out. So what? BTC falls everything else falls. BTC rise everything else rise...

XPM was Proof of Work which means every day the shares are being diluted. BTC fell and Blackcoin rose during that time. BTC falls because people are constantly generating new BTC so of course it has to fall. The only reason BTC is profitable at all is because demand is surpassing the supply at the moment but since the supply is constantly increasing if you're saying BTC is a good store of wealth then you're supporting the same sort of inflation that takes place in fiat currencies. I would not put my savings in a Proof of Work coin, and neither would most others which is why Proof of Work coins don't attract long term savers.

The Bitshares and Blackcoin community actually care about creating technology to act as a store of wealth. That is one of the values both communities share. Bitshares is designed so that our shares are never diluted and Blackcoin is designed so that it's only 1% inflation by Proof of Stake each year.

Because there aren't any new Bitshares or Blackcoins being generated, it's market cap and price has nothing to do with Bitcoin. These are competely separate technologies, with a completely different operating philosophy. If you're a very smart investor and these two coins work as developers in both communities hope, then when BTC is crashing or not moving up in price you can put store your wealth in Bitshares or Blackcoin. You don't have to worry about your shares being diluted over time due to mining, because both Bitshares and Blackcoin desired to be profitable.

I think we want to completely differentiate BTS from BTC and all other altcoins outhere..

Blackcoin is profitable right now. Bitshares is something we expect and hope will be profitable.

New Blackcoins are being created at a low rate of only 1% a year. This means the way for the Blackcoin machine or DAC to create profit for it's shareholders is through crypto asset appreciation. What I mean is that Blackcoin is like a marketing machine where the Blackcoin community is gaining expertise and developing skills in grassroots, viral, and undercover marketing techniques. As these techniques are perfected the value of their Blackcoins begin to rise and because so few new Blackcoins are being generated, after every major sell-off the support floor is a little bit higher.

So if you view Blackcoin as a grassroots crypto-equity marketing company, and Bitshares as a bank and exchange company, then you can understand my reasoning for trying to purchase the services of the Blackcoin community for marketing.

I might be the person with the least experience in here so everything I say might be wrong but I have not yet understood what is it so special about BC other than good marketing. I feel that once BC is $1-$2, the coin will get so dumped and will die..

The coin will be dumped but it wont die until the community decides to stop working to keep it alive. No technology markets itself, not even Bitcoin. Bitcoin is marketed by Proof of Work and the fact that people think mining equals free money. Now that mining doesn't equal free money anymore it's being pushed to VCs and Wall Street.

We could make the claim that because Bitcoin is a DAC which is wasting money on processes which are unnecessary, and which is inflationary, that once something like Blackcoin came along which has at best 1% inflation, if you do the math then you would think most people would take their coins out of Bitcoin, Litecoin and all those inflationary Proof of Work clones and put them into the most deflationary Proof of Stake coins for the same reason that people buy precious metals or get into Bitcoin.

Blackcoin is the only successsful Proof of Stake coin which isn't some hybrid. It's a true Proof of Stake coin. It's success is based on the fact that the Blackcoin community has the best marketing next to Litecoin and Dogecoin. If a Proof of Stake coin remains in demand it will never get dumped and die.

So the Blackcoin community has figured out that if demand is kept steady by using the multipool innovation and clever marketing campaigns that their coin will never die. It will be dumped but when people who have 1 million coins take their profits, the next people to dump will be people who have 100,000 coins, and then after they dump it's the people who have 50,000 coins or less.

So what happens when it gets dumped at $2-3? In theory it could die if that is what the Blackcoin community wants, but if the Blackcoin community wants to then they can contract their services out to other communities and by doing this it would guarantee that the price of their coin would always rise.

As long as the Blackcoin community continues to improve it's marketing skills, continues to improve it's multipool innovation, and keeps setting higher goals, then the goal of $2-3 might be reached and for sure people will dump, but new people will be buying in at that time and those new people will now have to do the same marketing effort to reach $20-30 that the previous group of people had to do to reach $2-3.

I don't see why it would ever stop. If you own BC then of course when it reaches $2 you'll sell most of your BC, but you might keep some just in case someday it reaches $10. So what happens is there eventually wont be any really large holders left to dump at $2-3 and as long as the marketing is there the demand will exist to push it to $10.

Try to think of Blackcoin as a coin marketing DAC. It's success or failure depends entirely on keeping demand high and keeping demand high depends entirely on marketing. The same could be said about Bitshares as a community, if we don't focus on marketing we wont have enough demand or volume to be successful.

This video is educational and can provide metaphors for our discussions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9ICMfUDjk&list=UU6f8o_H_OgfSLJ2w-bOvyew

[mf-tzo]

I have zero knowledge about mining so I cannot really comment.

But if you define partnership with BC to let the miners mining altcoins and let them choose payout between BC or BTS I don't see why not partner with BTC or LTC or PPC which have bigger communities? What is it so special about BC? If BTS is more profitable the miners will leave BC and BTC and everything else to mine altcoins in BTS mining pool.

Sure they have marketed their coin efficiently. XPM also had a lot of publicity when it came out. So what? BTC falls everything else falls. BTC rise everything else rise...

I think we want to completely differentiate BTS from BTC and all other altcoins outhere..

I might be the person with the least experience in here so everything I say might be wrong but I have not yet understood what is it so special about BC other than good marketing. I feel that once BC is $1-$2, the coin will get so dumped and will die..

[luckybit]

It means you would mine the real PPC, it would be sold on an exchange for BTS which would then be paid by the pool to the miners. Just like how Blackcoinpool does it.

I don't see anything wrong with this and why would anyone object to something like this. I believe it is essential to do it!

I don't believe though that any partnership with BC or any other altcoin has anything to offer.

Suppose a partnership with BC is all it would take to get the BC team to make the hybrid mining pool and market it? Why not?

Unless you want to do all that work, whats in it for them?

[mf-tzo]

It means you would mine the real PPC, it would be sold on an exchange for BTS which would then be paid by the pool to the miners. Just like how Blackcoinpool does it.

I don't see anything wrong with this and why would anyone object to something like this. I believe it is essential to do it!

I don't believe though that any partnership with BC or any other altcoin has anything to offer.

[luckybit]

Do you mean that you virtually mine altcoins and sell them automatically for BTS? So you effectively mine i.e. BitPPC and sell it automatically for BTS?

Appologies in advance for the very newbie and silly question but I am trying to survive falling from the sky without wearing a parassute  and so far I have missunderstood many things that led me to bad economic decisions...

It means you would mine the real PPC, it would be sold on an exchange for BTS which would then be paid by the pool to the miners. Just like how Blackcoinpool does it.

and another point I want to make is why to form a partership with BC? Who cares if this coin can generate 1% on your saving account? PPC does the same thing.

PPC is not true Proof of Stake. It's still being mined thus diluted, just like Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc.

I bought some PPCs waiting to appreciate in value but never unlocked my wallet to get 1%. If I want 1% I stay with current fiat and stocks. And who cares if it they have good marketing? XPM had also some publicity for solving prime numbers was only short pumped but has still not appreciated in $ terms.

PPC dilutes your buying power with every new coin so if it's a stock it dilutes your shares. That is a problem Blackcoin and Bitshares do not have and that is why I call Blackcoin and Bitshares an entirely different species. That is the difference between true Proof of Stake and hybrid Proof of Stake like PPC.

BTC falls and all of these coins get hammered. BTC rise and some good coins existing out there rise more %...

Except for true Proof of Stake coins like Blackcoin and possibly Bitshares.
For Proof of Stake coins marketing is most important. Once people figure out that the smartest thing to do when BTC is crashing is to buy into a Proof of Stake coin to protect their wealth then they'll eventually stop parking their wealth in Proof of Work coins entirely.

Proof of Work coins are like an organism which is bleeding value and diluting everyone's shares for security. Proof of Stake coins like Bitshares and Blackcoin don't do this so whatever you put into it will always increase over time as long as marketing is on point.

This is why marketing is so important and why I'm pushing for an alliance with Blackcoin. The Blackcoin community has figured out that marketing is what decides the success or failure of a Proof of Stake coin so they are doing a good job of it. The Bitshares community is still not figuring out that having the best technology but the worst marketing isn't working in our favor. Once that is figured out I think people will take a look at some of the ideas I posted and some ideas posted by others but until Bitshares is released people are not going to know if the technology alone can raise the market cap or not.

The most important thing is to create a multipool for BTS (although as per my previous post I am not sure I understand what mine BTS means) in order to attract the miners from BTC and LTC to BTS and pump BTS price.

This is something we agree on. I think the multipool should be a hybrid BTS/BC pool because then you'd immediately attract them all with the least effort.

BTS supposed to be something completely new and different. Why form any partnership with any altcoin out there?

Because you can! Why compete when you don't have to? You actually want to compete with everything for marketcap when you could cooperate? Which coins do you think are going to win in the end?

The coins which form alliances, perform acquisitions, or even which go as far as to conduct mergers will win long term just as companies in the real world do this in order to win.

Just convience people of it's value, get the miners on board (who as far as I understand they are the ones pumping the prices irrispective of what each coin does) pump BTS the price to $1,000 and then the whole world will know about it...

And how are you supposed to do this without forming alliances? They'll go with the coin which forms the alliances with whatever coin they are holding long term. Since a lot of them are holding BC, and BC is marketing itself well already, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have to compete with BC.

Excerpt from the Blackcoin community explaining how Proof of Stake works differently from Proof of Work

I am amazed it's still at a stand still.  There is 3x the buy volume visible in the orders

HOLD!

It's like a mexican freakin stand off.

Stability is a beautiful thing with Blackcoin. It means the sellers who bought cheaper are running out of coins to sell. Everyone else is holding and waiting for the price to rise. With no mined coins being dumped on the market eventually the buy pressure will overwhelm the sell pressure and we get our next upswing.

Can't wait until we break 40k. I expect a rush of people will flood the market as it means 60k+ is back on the menu.

We were bang on.

Great feeling to wake up and find Blackcoin has smashed through another wall. 

newcomers don't know like we do, there's no newly mined coins being dumped on the market. Once the profit takers are finished taking their profits from coins they bought cheaper there are no more coins to sell (= next upswing). We must repeat this like our mantra. This will continue until the market cap is beyond Litecoin.

There will be epic pumps, dumps and corrections along the way but the above logic is undeniable. Typically after each pump, a dump follows but importantly the overall trend is always upwards. To infinity and beyond.

Always bet on black.

I think in 1 year we will be that big that we have to mine LTC coz we crushed all other coins with our multipool ^^ . BC price in 1 month ~over 1$, bc price end of the year ~stable 4$ but over 10$ when pumped. Thats my quess

These quotes summarize the key differences between Proof of Work and Proof of Stake. When you're trading with a Proof of Work coin which is always being diluted like Dogecoin, Peercoin, Bitcoin, Litecoin, at any time some miners who mined with their giant football field sized rig can dump on everyone. With true Proof of Stake like Bitshares and Blackcoin this isn't possible because the only people who can dump are the early adopters who want to cash out.

So for Bitshares to be dumped, people among us will need some reason or excuse to cash out. If Bitshares works as it is supposed to then the buying pressure of a mining pool combined with the demand from the Blackcoin community could easy pump the price of x100 over a similar amount of time as we saw with Blackcoin.

So if Bitshares launch at $1 a Bitshare for example then $100 could be possible a couple months later. That is realistic only if the mining pool idea and other marketing ideas build up the demand. The reason the price has to be pumped is because the early adopters (people on this forum) have to be tempted to sell their Bitshares. As people who bought their Bitshares for pennies sell them for dollars, the next group of buyers will buy them for dollars and sell them for tens of dollars, and then after they sell then the next group will buy for hundreds of dollars and sell for hundreds of dollars.

This could take months or years depending on the marketing. But it's not like Bitcoin because new shares aren't going to be created. Early adopters also will be in no hurry to sell like they are with Bitcoin because they don't have to pay an electric bill or mining expenses.

[mf-tzo]

and another point I want to make is why to form a partership with BC? Who cares if this coin can generate 1% on your saving account? PPC does the same thing. I bought some PPCs waiting to appreciate in value but never unlocked my wallet to get 1%. If I want 1% I stay with current fiat and stocks. And who cares if it they have good marketing? XPM had also some publicity for solving prime numbers was only short pumped but has still not appreciated in $ terms.
BTC falls and all of these coins get hammered. BTC rise and some good coins existing out there rise more %...

The most important thing is to create a multipool for BTS (although as per my previous post I am not sure I understand what mine BTS means) in order to attract the miners from BTC and LTC to BTS and pump BTS price.

BTS supposed to be something completely new and different. Why form any partnership with any altcoin out there? Just convience people of it's value, get the miners on board (who as far as I understand they are the ones pumping the prices irrispective of what each coin does) pump BTS the price to $1,000 and then the whole world will know about it...

[mf-tzo]

Hi,

I have read all your posts  but I am somehow confused with one very basic thing. What do you mean mine BTS? I thought BTS had a specific amount 1 billion BIPS (derived from 2 million PTS and 2 million AGS = 8 million shares). Or not?

Do you mean that you virtually mine altcoins and sell them automatically for BTS? So you effectively mine i.e. BitPPC and sell it automatically for BTS?

Appologies in advance for the very newbie and silly question but I am trying to survive falling from the sky without wearing a parassute  and so far I have missunderstood many things that led me to bad economic decisions...

[luckybit]

I don't even know where to start, so I'm not going to try hard. 

This is not productive for anyone.

Go look up zero sum game if you have no idea why someone could be hurt by a pump and dump.  (Although I am not sure markets are zero sum, I am under this impression at least)

I am saying Bitshares is designed to be that way. I read the early whitepapers and it was designed that there would be winners and losers. I'm not sure how you can avoid that short of printing up a lot of money and then feeding it into market so it looks like everyone is winning.

You are going too much out of your way to be insulting and misrepresenting what I am saying.  Telling me I am confused, "finally numbers", etc.  Lol.  I don't think I did that to you, or at least i attempted to avoid as much. 

It's not my goal to insult anyone. I just don't see how you expect Bitshares to work. Do you believe that everyone will use it and no one will speculate on the wrong commodity and lose their money? How would BitUSD be created without winners and losers in a zero sum game as you describe?

An investor as I understand it is a person who is going long. So if you bought Bitcoin when it was around $1 and you didn't touch it from that time until now you will have done well despite the temporary volatility. This is why I'm not concerned about the pump and dumps in Bitcoin, Litecoin, Blackcoin or any of the others because the price continues to trend up on the charts that matter. Day traders lose money because they are greedy and aggressive in their speculations, they expect to make a profit the same week or the same month and when someone rains on their parade then they sell for less than they originally paid for.

That's not the fault of the market in my opinion. It's panic sellers who cause these sorts of crashes. On the flipside the pumps are panic buyers. I don't have a problem with people panic buying Bitshares if they intend to actually make use of the Bitshares software. If they are only buying it to sell it a week later then there isn't alot we can do because that even happens to Bitcoin.

Your problem is I believe that you actually use different definitions of things depending on what you are trying to accomplish. instead -  stick with trying to be better at conveying any ideas of merit you have.

For example, if I understand correctly, by your definitions you airdrop to people of note, but you form strategic alliances when you snapshot other's blockchains.  Just seems confusing and backwards to politely put it.

There was an idea from someone else on here to do an airdrop to different blockchains. Whoever is developing a DAC can airdrop their shares to whomever and however. I'm only offering a marketing strategy that any DAC developer in our community can use and it wouldn't cost anyone anything because up to 80% of shares in the DAC can be used for stuff like this.

[gamey]

So the idea that investors somehow could be hurt by a pump and dump doesn't make much sense. The only group of people who I could see who might get hurt are day traders who don't even think to find out what Bitshares is at all and who don't even download the client. These sorts of speculators can blame themselves for not learning what Bitshares is because if they understand what it is they could start speculating and day trading from within the client which is what we should want.

I don't even know where to start, so I'm not going to try hard. 

This is not productive for anyone.

Go look up zero sum game if you have no idea why someone could be hurt by a pump and dump.  (Although I am not sure markets are zero sum, I am under this impression at least)

You are going too much out of your way to be insulting and misrepresenting what I am saying.  Telling me I am confused, "finally numbers", etc.  Lol.  I don't think I did that to you, or at least i attempted to avoid as much. 

You write pages without specifics. You may not like my responses, but at least I read your posts.

Your problem is I believe that you actually use different definitions of things depending on what you are trying to accomplish. instead -  stick with trying to be better at conveying any ideas of merit you have.

For example, if I understand correctly, by your definitions you airdrop to people of note, but you form strategic alliances when you snapshot other's blockchains.  Just seems confusing and backwards to politely put it.

Anyway, keep working at getting the multipool on BTS.  I think it is a good idea.


edit -

This is a point which I expected to be obvious but I'll make it obvious. The Blackcoin community would benefit a lot from having BitAssets like BitUSD, BitBTC, and Bitshares in general.

It is obvious to me that BitAssets/Bitshares ecosystem would benefit all communities.  Why are you so stuck on Blackcoin ?  <scratches head>

[luckybit]

The Blackcoin community can benefit from using Bitshares

This is a point which I expected to be obvious but I'll make it obvious. The Blackcoin community would benefit a lot from having BitAssets like BitUSD, BitBTC, and Bitshares in general. Imagine the power of a hybrid pool which let people mine and receive BitUSD if they chose to do so in a situation where Bitcoin is too volatile. Imagine if they receive both Blackcoin and Bitshares in the form of any BitAsset they choose?

Payouts in BTC don't make any sense anymore when you can payout in BitBTC. When BTC is being dumped you can switch your payout to any other BitAsset including BitUSD. Payout in BitUSD also would make tax calculations a lot easier for people.

And if it's hybrid payout with Blackcoin then they get to speculate on the rise of Blackcoin which gets pumped and dumped as some would say, but would be able to shield themselves using Bitshares instead of Blackshield technology which they are relying on now.


The Bitshares community benefits because the Bitshares trading exchange is built into the mining pool

This is the major benefit for Bitshares. It markets the technology precisely to the demographic most likely to demand it. They need Bitshares in order to speculate and trade, and Bitshares needs to be marketed to speculators and traders. The Lotto DAC, the Insurance DAC, all of these could be marketed as well through the strategic relationships and alliances formed.

[luckybit]

Bitshares gives you options to profit from volatility

It may not be in the first release of Bitshares but it's definitely planned. Bitshares is set up so that from within Bitshares the users wont have to care very much about the price of a Bitshare once it's pumped high enough that it has some value. If Bitshares were worth less than a satoshi then it would all be completely worthless. If on the other hand a Bitshare is worth $100 then the market cap must be pretty high which means liquidity exists as well as volume.

If you're thinking in dollars and you want to maintain your dollar value exactly you have the BitAsset (BitUSD). You could put $100 of value into BitUSD and save it. Then 6 months later take the $100 out of BitUSD. This makes Bitshares a perfect store of value should the BitUSD technology work.

So the idea that investors somehow could be hurt by a pump and dump doesn't make much sense. The only group of people who I could see who might get hurt are day traders who don't even think to find out what Bitshares is at all and who don't even download the client. These sorts of speculators can blame themselves for not learning what Bitshares is because if they understand what it is they could start speculating and day trading from within the client which is what we should want.

As more features go online there will be more options for speculators to make money from different kinds of volatility. The price crashes and someone will make money. The price bubbles and someone will make money. There will always be winners and losers in speculation and if you don't want to speculate then don't play the game, put it as BitUSD.

[luckybit]

Bitshares is not like Bitcoin

Gamey perhaps your confusion is that you view Bitshares as having a similar function as Bitcoin. For Bitcoin volatility is terrible because it's supposed to be a currency. Bitshares on the other hand is specifically designed for speculators and the goal is to attract the speculators (market manipulators as you like to call them) to Bitshares.

Bitshares is going to be pumped for certain if it's going to be successful at all because it's designed to benefit from being pumped. That is why there are so many different commodities within it, each which can be pumped. That is why there is BitUSD built into it for people who don't want the volatility.

So your argument that pump and dumps are bad only works if you're talking about currency. It's only bad because a currency needs to be stable so we can trade with it. A stock like Bitshares, if people are doing more with it than just day trading then it's not going to matter what the price of a Bitshare is that day for the people within the Bitshares chain once a certain level of liquidity is reached and that is the main reason people will want to be in Bitshares.

When Bitcoin goes down all the Proof of Work currencies go down with it as if they are tied at the hip. The one coin that went up was Blackcoin. As a result a lot of people have figured out that when the price of BTC is dropping to put their money in Blackcoin as a store of wealth, but when the price of BTC is rising they dump Blackcoin for Bitcoin.

With Bitshares they don't have to do any of that. You can buy BitBTC from within Bitshares itself when Bitcoin is rising. You can cash out into BitUSD itself from within Bitshares, or cash out into gold from within it.

But no one is going to ever learn to use this functionality if the so called pumpers and dumpers who make every coin including Bitcoin popular never use Bitshares. So I see no way around it, the day traders, speculators, they'll have to use Bitshares in order for Bitshares to even work.

But if you're someone who wants to save your profit as something other than BTC because BTC is being dumped but you don't want to cash out into fiat then there is Bitshares. I'm only mentioning this because from your previous post it seems like you don't understand what Bitshares can do and why pumping and dumping isn't an issue (volume is the biggest issue and whether or not we can increase it). And the way to increase volume is through marketing because transaction fees in Bitshares actually increase the dividend.

What happens to Manipulated Commodity Prices when BitShares and other crypto-markets open up?  Will Silver and Gold, in particular, go up in price as the Crypto-Equity markets slowly gain traction and grow to encompass Wall Street in their Shadow?

The short answer is: The only way to find out is to run the experiment.

However, it is entirely possible that, if some sellers of physical gold accepted 1 oz. BitGold in payment for XAU 1.00, the BitGold might continue to trade at a premium, because of it is easy to hide, transfer, and store, unlike physical bars of gold.

Let's run the experiment. That is the whole point of Bitshares.

[luckybit]

I can go show you other POS mining pools that aren't near as busy as blackcoinpool.  A wager would incentivize me to further the issue with you.

Blackcoinpool only existed for around a month. Look at the volume and don't worry about the pool.

But since you're so concerned with the pool have a look at how they are marketing it below http://www.blackcoin.co/mining/the-end-of-the-blackfriday-promotions-and-what-is-next/

The end of the #BlackFriday Promotions and what is next…

by BlackCoin Team | Apr 18, 2014 | Mining | 4 comments

In the past two weeks we have had an amazing time with the #BlackFriday promotions. We gave away a big bag of Blackcoins to miners over a timespan of two weeks, had the community themselves give away a bunch of extra hardware prizes and on top of that we broke record and record on hashrate, reaching over 11 Gh/s on Scrypt alone and 88+ TH/s on SHA-256.

In the coming weeks the BCP dev team, Legion Development Group, and the BlackCoin team will work hard on providing even more great things for the BlackCoin community, such as Operation BlackShield, Project Accept BlackCoin. In the meantime, many more projects are being developed by us and by the community at large.

However, we like the idea of the BlackFriday promotions and came up with the next promotion that will start on the first Friday of May. Curious what it is?
A new BlackFriday Promotion…

Starting the first Friday of May we will start a lottery system on BlackCoinPool. This is going to work on Address and IP basis and we’ll give away tickets to the lottery in the following way:

For Scrypt:

    1 MH/s – 5 MH/s = 1 Ticket
    5 MH/s – 10 MH/s = 2 Tickets
    10 MH/s and above = 3 Tickets

For SHA-256:

    100 GH/s – 500 GH/s = 1 Ticket
    500 GH/s – 2 TH/s = 2 Tickets
    2 TH/s and above = 3 Tickets

The ticket count will be updated on a weekly basis for every day we hit at least 15GH/s during that week. For each day under 15GH/s we will not give tickets to the miners. This promotion will run from the 2nd of May untill the 3th of July with the lottery draw being held on Friday the 4th of July. What you can win? Hold on to your Mining Rigs…

Are you ready for the most amazing give away in Mining History? Are you ready to become the coolest miner in your local town? Are you ready for EPIC?

BlackCoinPool.com will give away ONE 300MH/s KNC Miner Titan*, worth $9,995.- to the lucky winner of the draw held on the 4th of July. This epic mining rig by the reputable mining gear company KNC Miner from Sweden is currently the wet dream of any mining enthousiast in the world. Who wouldn’t want to have this puppy in their home?

This 28nm-chip based uber rig will perform at atleast 300 MH/s on Scrypt based alt coins. Using about 1 KWh we expect this rig to be one of the most profitable rigs out there, and jugding KNC Miner’s earlier performances, they’ll make sure you’ll get the best mining rig there is. We’ll preorder the machine and when you win, you will receive this monster at the doorstep as soon as KNC can deliver. Just add a PSU and you are off to mining heaven.

To make sure all is fair we’ll use the before mentioned lottery ticket to draw the prize, which will be done live using a randomizer in combination with a livestream on Twitch.tv.  You’ll be able to see the number of tickets and their respective hashes on your mining page so you can check directly if you are the lucky winner.

This kind of marketing is the sort of marketing that large traditional corporations pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. Let's find out if their marketing plan works by tracking the market cap of Blackcoin over time as well as the hashrate.

In the end, the guys with a lot of capital in mining etc are not going to mess with that stuff.  They'll just find the best BTC payout and buy BC when the market drops like any sharp player will. 

BTC isn't Proof of Stake. If you cannot see why people want to put their money in Proof of Stake when the price of BTC is dropping like it is then there is nothing I can say to you. Learn the value of Proof of Stake and that is why people prefer their payout in a Proof of Stake coin. Blackcoin was just the first true Proof of Stake coin to do it. It would be even better if it were BTS because BTS has greater interest with a smaller cap.

blackcoipool has 7 mhash.  Wafflepool has over 30.  Why do you come to such conclusions that blackcoinpool type places are the future of mining ?

Finally you offer some numbers. I agree Wafflepool is larger but this means Blackcoinpool has a lot of room for growth and is an indicator for investors to buy Blackcoins.

I find it a bit strange you lecturing me about learning about business.  I was suggesting same thing as you are, but with BTC.  You didn't want BTC, because you kept going on and on about how they have thieves in their mist, and centralization of power.  Reasons not really related to our business.

What exactly are you trying to purchase by paying the Bitcoin community? Technical expertise? Development support? Bitshares is already technically superior to Bitcoin. And if it's about marketing then Litecoin, Blackcoin, Dogecoin are all better at marketing than Bitcoin.

Bitcoin has a large community but it doesn't mean that community is a Proof of Stake community, good at marketing, or active. You could say they have a lot of money and hash power to mine with but if you set up a multipool for virtual mining with SHA-256 support then you could capture their hashing power and pay out in BTS. So virtual mining would be for all miners of all communities, but air drops should be strategic, targeted, and the Bitcoin community isn't Proof of Stake or good at marketing. What is the point?

I will sum up your most interesting idea and I think what you've been getting at.

Blackcoin is full of pumpers.  To pump you need cheap and signficant shares and at a low price.  Snapshot airdropping to blackcoin would accomplish this bring these people in the fold for future DACs.

This is all correct. I want to make a pitch. Think of it as a job offer to the Blackcoin community which they can accept or reject. If they accept the shares in the air drop then it's up to them to do the necessary marketing to make the associated DACs popular.

For example what if we air drop some shares on the Lotto DAC to the Blackcoin community which you admit is full of pumpers. Let's say those pumpers then begin pumping the Lotto DAC in the same way and miners everywhere start doing the lottery? See the big picture now? They are already building a lottery into their marketing so why not let them own shares in the Lotto DAC so that marketing genius could actually benefit them and us?

Is it good to airdrop to "marketing geniuses" aka guys who sit around and manipulate altcoin markets all day? 

What is an unmanipulatable market? You're being biased here. All markets are manipulated.

 I can't say, but there is something there to consider.  I am not sure I want DAC shares inflated because I think it also leads to artificial crashes hurting people not in the game.  Pumpers play a zero sum game where the less sophisticated lose out repeatedly.

Then you want fiat currency because those currencies are stable. They don't grow, so they can't crash.

If you want growth then there is no way for a stock to grow without the risk of the occasional crash. Bitshares is going to be dumped no matter what you do and the only thing important is how high the price gets before each dump because the higher it gets, the higher the price floor is as the process starts again. You can try to make it dump resistant like Blackcoin is doing, but then you'd be accused of manipulating the market to prevent early adopters from selling their shares.

There is absolutely nothing you can do about this kind of volatility because it's a fundamental part of growth not just for altcoins but for Bitcoin as well. Bitcoin which was $1000 just months ago is now $450-500 now. That's basically a pump and dump, the price is even more manipulated than the altcoins you talk about. So does that mean we should cash out into the dollar?

No. What it means is you should learn how to use the features which will be built into Bitshares. When Bitshares is being pumped you should cash out into BitUSD from within Bitshares. Pumps will not hurt people using Bitshares appropriately and that is why I encourage us not to be afraid of pumps. It's not a currency so it's not designed to be super stable, and that is why it has BitUSD inside of it for people who don't want to be affected by the pump and dump growth phases.

Blackcoin keeps going up. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks and for how long.

I want Bitshares to keep going up as well. I think dumps will be fine, just lock your profits in at the all time high with BitUSD and the dumps will not affect you. Of course its going to affect people who have less knowledge on how to protect themselves from it or on people who don't pay attention but those people will just have to be patient and wait for the price to rise again just like with a stock.

[gamey]

I can go show you other POS mining pools that aren't near as busy as blackcoinpool.  A wager would incentivize me to further the issue with you.

In the end, the guys with a lot of capital in mining etc are not going to mess with that stuff.  They'll just find the best BTC payout and buy BC when the market drops like any sharp player will.  blackcoipool has 7 mhash.  Wafflepool has over 30.  Why do you come to such conclusions that blackcoinpool type places are the future of mining ?

I find it a bit strange you lecturing me about learning about business.  I was suggesting same thing as you are, but with BTC.  You didn't want BTC, because you kept going on and on about how they have thieves in their mist, and centralization of power.  Reasons not really related to our business.

I will sum up your most interesting idea and I think what you've been getting at.

Blackcoin is full of pumpers.  To pump you need cheap and signficant shares and at a low price.  Snapshot airdropping to blackcoin would accomplish this bring these people in the fold for future DACs.

Is it good to airdrop to "marketing geniuses" aka guys who sit around and manipulate altcoin markets all day?  I can't say, but there is something there to consider.  I am not sure I want DAC shares inflated because I think it also leads to artificial crashes hurting people not in the game.  Pumpers play a zero sum game where the less sophisticated lose out repeatedly.

Blackcoin keeps going up. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks and for how long.

[luckybit]

Proof of Stake coins can only be marketed through virtual mining?  How so ?

Every coin is fighting for that same demographic.

No it's not. How do you market Proof of Stake effectively without virtual mining? No one has ever done it until Blackcoin. Blackcoin is the first successful attempt that I know of and it's using virtual mining.

Mining seems to be necessary for marketing. If you have evidence that another method has worked equally well in the past then share it.

Blackcoin is not the first POS stake coin to be successfully marketed.  You missed NXT and Peercoin.

NXT wasn't successfully marketed. A very small community of several really large holders who have a very high market cap doesn't mean it's successfully marketed. It's not doing better than Blackcoin right now and it didn't rise as quickly as Blackcoin either. Also it's rise isn't independent from Bitcoin the way Blackcoin is.

NXT had a rise more like Mastercoin where it did rise but it took a lot of effort and it's hard to keep it rising. Volume is only $ 25,990   for NXT, it's been forked multiple times, I don't see how it's going to do better than Blackcoin even if it's superior technologically.

This argument could be said for a lot of coins.  I am pretty sure you are wrong about blackcoin (which you can't mine), becoming the favorite among miners.   The size of the blackcoin pool is still  small relatively speaking. 

That means a lot of room for growth and for the price to go up. It's going to become a favorite among miners once miners figure out that Litecoin isn't profitable to mine and when miners have a difficult time keeping up with the difficulty. That is guaranteed to happen pretty soon as it happend with Bitcoin mining and when it does then something will challenge Litecoin and in my opinion Blackcoin is the biggest challenge because you can mine it with any algorithm (it's virtual mining).

Other similar pools with similar purposes don't even touch blackcoinpool's size. You should also point out the altcoin paying multipools that are so small to not even have a measurable effect on the coin's marketcap.  Look at hashrate.org.  Why doesn't it work ?

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Show your numbers and facts.

No one here is against marketing/pumping.  I just don't understand why you think Blackcoin is a hive if marketing geniuses.  I don't understand what we can we get from "strategic partnerships" with them?  A pool that pays out 50/50 bc/bts ?  Well go talk to the guy who runs blackcoinpool and ask him what he'd charge for such a thing ? 

I've contacted people from the Blackcoin community about it and there are several options on how to do a strategic alliance. For example the Blackcoin community could approach the developers of the Lotto DAC, the Nameshares DAC, the Insurance DAC, Bitshares Me, and arrange for a strategic airdrop to their blockchain. This is actually an idea which would cost us absolutely nothing and benefit our community greatly.

The purpose behind this would be to make it like a tacit agreement between the Bitshares community and Blackcoin community. The Blackcoin community would be given the incentives necessary to apply the same passion and grass roots marketing to DACs which we own 20% of as they are applying to Blackcoin. This is something which would be in our mutual benefit and which would take only a few developers deciding to distribute some portion of their 80% of shares to the Blackcoin blockchain. In my opinion it's an easy decision.

If you could price BTS really low, then sell it off to the right people, then maybe we could emulate Blackcoin because the right people would have incentives.  That isn't going to happen, so I just don't get why blackcoin.  Yes, they've grown.  Yes, we need to grow.

We need to get them to help us grow by offering them an incentive to want us to grow along side them. Think of it like you're running a business and you need a grass roots marketing campaign so you form an alliance with one of the most talented grassroots marketing communities in the Proof of Stake community. I would say that Blackcoin is the best at marketing Proof of Stake, far better than Peercoin and NXT because they haven't had to spend much money and it's cost effective.

Instead of writing pages of this stuff where you give us questionable cause/effect, I would suggest heading to twitter and other forum's and pumping BTS.   IMO thats the only "genius" going on beyond that 1 week mining which created a shallow distribution.

It's actually not that easy. You have to form strategic relationships to get people to accept your coin. CoinKite, Blackcoincard, etc. You also have to make your coin cool by coming up with catchy memes, nice imagery, visuals, like 1 BC 1 Lambo.

I've suggested before that I3 makes a fund for people to go out there and support BTS.  People need incentives to do this.  Those incentives work better with shallow distributions if you want it to happen organically.  Otherwise people need other incentives....

I never asked for I3 to make a fund. I asked for developers to do strategic airdrops using the shares they'll already control. The purpose of strategic alliances is fork resistance, not just pumping.

Think of the Blackcoin community as becoming sort of like employees of our decentralized autonomous corporation where they'll benefit along with us in the success of the Lotto DACs or some of the others if we can arrange for it.

I also don't understand "strategic partnerships" with blackcoin.  I do understand taking their best ideas and mulling them over to see if they fit.  A BTS paying pool is not a bad idea in any way, but thats not a strategic partnership.

I think you should learn a bit more about how business works. A lot of business and marketing is about relationships. Success is often about strategy, not just having technology. We need strategic relationships with the PoS community if our DACs are to remain profitable.

In another thread, 4 people back to back questioned what was special about blackcoin.  No one questions whether emulating their multipool is a bad thing.  If you'd just stick with that, everyone would agree with you.  Instead you talk of "marketing geniuses" and "strategic partnerships" and I suspect a lot of us just sit back scratching our heads.

The Blackcoin community itself is special. Think of it like we are trying to buy the services of the Blackcoin employees. Sometimes corporations are bought out to get the human resources, not the technology.