[video] BitShares DNS

[Riverhead]

Have you looked at http://dotp2p.io?
That's our new home page for this project. There will be a much more professional intro video there soon, and there is a bit more useful info there now.

Page looks great and answered all my questions...and ones I didn't know I had .  Can this URL be added to your [ANN] OP?

[Overthetop]

I was glad to see the video, as there has been little other mention of BitShares DNS elsewhere. It had lots of good info. I did also listen to the radio show but it was completely void of useful information. Not much toast featured on there, basically just a boring rant about the awful Namecoin community.

Production quality on the video is weak, as noted in the subreddit, but I don't think people seeking information really care. Honestly I'm inclined to agree with some of the points made in that subreddit though. There seemed to be questionable assumptions put forth, really sloppy choices of terminology thoughout, and a dismissive attitude that does a disservice to legitimately interesting ideas. Rehearsal and editing can go a very long way to address these.

Kudos toast for spending time discussing the auction-style price discovery mechanism. I think it's a unique approach in the next-gen DNS project space and should be emphasized as it differentiates this approach from others. When you go to make the next video or presentation, it would be super effective to create some graphics ahead of time exactly like what was sketched out on the whiteboard, but find a way to clearly articulate the rationale for it.

Have you looked at http://dotp2p.io?
That's our new home page for this project. There will be a much more professional intro video there soon, and there is a bit more useful info there now.

The new site is good, hope more ppl pay attention to this.

[toast]

I was glad to see the video, as there has been little other mention of BitShares DNS elsewhere. It had lots of good info. I did also listen to the radio show but it was completely void of useful information. Not much toast featured on there, basically just a boring rant about the awful Namecoin community.

Production quality on the video is weak, as noted in the subreddit, but I don't think people seeking information really care. Honestly I'm inclined to agree with some of the points made in that subreddit though. There seemed to be questionable assumptions put forth, really sloppy choices of terminology thoughout, and a dismissive attitude that does a disservice to legitimately interesting ideas. Rehearsal and editing can go a very long way to address these.

Kudos toast for spending time discussing the auction-style price discovery mechanism. I think it's a unique approach in the next-gen DNS project space and should be emphasized as it differentiates this approach from others. When you go to make the next video or presentation, it would be super effective to create some graphics ahead of time exactly like what was sketched out on the whiteboard, but find a way to clearly articulate the rationale for it.

Have you looked at http://dotp2p.io?
That's our new home page for this project. There will be a much more professional intro video there soon, and there is a bit more useful info there now.

[mdw]

I was glad to see the video, as there has been little other mention of BitShares DNS elsewhere. It had lots of good info. I did also listen to the radio show but it was completely void of useful information. Not much toast featured on there, basically just a boring rant about the awful Namecoin community.

Production quality on the video is weak, as noted in the subreddit, but I don't think people seeking information really care. Honestly I'm inclined to agree with some of the points made in that subreddit though. There seemed to be questionable assumptions put forth, really sloppy choices of terminology thoughout, and a dismissive attitude that does a disservice to legitimately interesting ideas. Rehearsal and editing can go a very long way to address these.

Kudos toast for spending time discussing the auction-style price discovery mechanism. I think it's a unique approach in the next-gen DNS project space and should be emphasized as it differentiates this approach from others. When you go to make the next video or presentation, it would be super effective to create some graphics ahead of time exactly like what was sketched out on the whiteboard, but find a way to clearly articulate the rationale for it.

[bytemaster]

toast,

I still don't understand fully about the Auction part even refering the informtion here https://github.com/nmushegian/dns/blob/master/whitepaper.md

Can you please describe the process using an example ?

Is this more clear? I updated the paper

You can kick off an auction by sending a transaction with a domain claim output if that domain has never been bid on before, or is expired. The domain remains in auction until DNS_AUCTION_BLOCKS blocks have passed since the last bid on that domain. (Note: Because the auction "timer" is reset in this way, nobody gains from being able to make faster bids and so there is a rule that there can be at most one bid per name per block.)

Every time someone makes a bid, the previous bidder is paid back his original bid plus a small fraction of the difference between the and the previous bid. This gives speculators an incentive to drive up the price and a way to profit without squatting the domain and reselling it. The rest of the difference is paid as a dividend to the network. If the person who won the domain was just a speculator who cannot make use of it, they have strong incentive to sell it back to the market at a small loss because of the opportunity cost of the lost dividends while the domain is held.

The end result is that a domain will keep re-appearing on the market while fluctuating around its "true" (market-perceived) price, until someone who actually wants to make use of that name buys it at the market price.

So an example is:

"name" has never been taken before.

A bids 10 for "name"
B bids 15 for "name". A gets 12.5, the network gets 2.5 as dividends.
C bids 17 for "name". B gets 16, the network gets 1 as dividends.
~ Nobody bids for 3 days, C won the domain ~
C puts the name back up for sale at 12.
D bids 13. C gets 12.5, the network gets 0.5 as dividends.

Here the dividend ratio is 50%, in reality it will be higher.

Thanks, clear now.

I would actually like to comment on this process some to encourage users to make larger bids rather than the minimum possible bid.

A bids 10 for "name" and pays the network 5 as dividends.
B bids 20 for "name", pays A 12.5 and the network 2.5
C bids 30 for "name", pays B 22.5 and the network 2.5
~ no body bids for 3 days, C won the domain for a total of 25
C puts the name back up for sale at 20
D bids 25 and pays it to C. 
E bids 27 and pays it to D.

After the initial bidding, the network does not collect fees from the auction except from the per-byte transaction fees.

Under these rules someone can secure a name cheaper if they bid higher initially because they increase the amount they must be outbid by to lose the name.  So if I attempt to do many small bids then chances are I would pay more than if I made a big bid and hope no one would be willing to raise the bar by 2x what I did.  If they do then I profit dramatically.   This means that the person who wants to actually own the name is motivated to bid their highest possible bid on the first go so that they might get the domain as cheaply as possible.     


 

[muse-umum]

toast,

I still don't understand fully about the Auction part even refering the informtion here https://github.com/nmushegian/dns/blob/master/whitepaper.md

Can you please describe the process using an example ?

Is this more clear? I updated the paper

You can kick off an auction by sending a transaction with a domain claim output if that domain has never been bid on before, or is expired. The domain remains in auction until DNS_AUCTION_BLOCKS blocks have passed since the last bid on that domain. (Note: Because the auction "timer" is reset in this way, nobody gains from being able to make faster bids and so there is a rule that there can be at most one bid per name per block.)

Every time someone makes a bid, the previous bidder is paid back his original bid plus a small fraction of the difference between the and the previous bid. This gives speculators an incentive to drive up the price and a way to profit without squatting the domain and reselling it. The rest of the difference is paid as a dividend to the network. If the person who won the domain was just a speculator who cannot make use of it, they have strong incentive to sell it back to the market at a small loss because of the opportunity cost of the lost dividends while the domain is held.

The end result is that a domain will keep re-appearing on the market while fluctuating around its "true" (market-perceived) price, until someone who actually wants to make use of that name buys it at the market price.

So an example is:

"name" has never been taken before.

A bids 10 for "name"
B bids 15 for "name". A gets 12.5, the network gets 2.5 as dividends.
C bids 17 for "name". B gets 16, the network gets 1 as dividends.
~ Nobody bids for 3 days, C won the domain ~
C puts the name back up for sale at 12.
D bids 13. C gets 12.5, the network gets 0.5 as dividends.

Here the dividend ratio is 50%, in reality it will be higher.

Thanks, clear now.

[toast]

toast,

I still don't understand fully about the Auction part even refering the informtion here https://github.com/nmushegian/dns/blob/master/whitepaper.md

Can you please describe the process using an example ?

Is this more clear? I updated the paper

You can kick off an auction by sending a transaction with a domain claim output if that domain has never been bid on before, or is expired. The domain remains in auction until DNS_AUCTION_BLOCKS blocks have passed since the last bid on that domain. (Note: Because the auction "timer" is reset in this way, nobody gains from being able to make faster bids and so there is a rule that there can be at most one bid per name per block.)

Every time someone makes a bid, the previous bidder is paid back his original bid plus a small fraction of the difference between the and the previous bid. This gives speculators an incentive to drive up the price and a way to profit without squatting the domain and reselling it. The rest of the difference is paid as a dividend to the network. If the person who won the domain was just a speculator who cannot make use of it, they have strong incentive to sell it back to the market at a small loss because of the opportunity cost of the lost dividends while the domain is held.

The end result is that a domain will keep re-appearing on the market while fluctuating around its "true" (market-perceived) price, until someone who actually wants to make use of that name buys it at the market price.

So an example is:

"name" has never been taken before.

A bids 10 for "name"
B bids 15 for "name". A gets 12.5, the network gets 2.5 as dividends.
C bids 17 for "name". B gets 16, the network gets 1 as dividends.
~ Nobody bids for 3 days, C won the domain ~
C puts the name back up for sale at 12.
D bids 13. C gets 12.5, the network gets 0.5 as dividends.

Here the dividend ratio is 50%, in reality it will be higher.

[muse-umum]

toast,

I still don't understand fully about the Auction part even refering the informtion here https://github.com/nmushegian/dns/blob/master/whitepaper.md

Can you please describe the process using an example ?

[unimercio]

Video was great, do more of them.  Ignore the haters.  Honestly if you were spending months making really professional videos instead of DACs, I don't think anyone would be happy.

  clear, concise and timely... thanks

[Ohpinot]

Video was great, do more of them.  Ignore the haters.  Honestly if you were spending months making really professional videos instead of DACs, I don't think anyone would be happy.

[Gentso1]

Don't worry about the quality of the video or the fact that you may not have looked the camera in the eye.
No one invested in pts or ags because they cared about how well you spoke in the video.

I personally thought it was a quick informal way, that didn't cost you and your team much time but also allowed you to get your point out

So thanks for the quick explanation

and I believe you have some coding to get back to

[toast]

Yeah that guy doesn't get the economics yet. He has a point about video quality though, please *don't* use the video on the main site. That should be another animated "what is bitcoin?"-style video. I will make more informal videos but they should all be forum-level exposure.

[bytemaster]

Comments from someone when I posted to /r/Namecoin: http://www.reddit.com/r/Namecoin/comments/20m3wu/video_comparison_of_bitshares_dns_vs_namecoin/

Just popping in to point out some innacuracies after watching the video.

• you state "namecoin price per domain is fixed", that is incorrect. Namecoin has been around for years now, the cost of the domains started out at 50 NMC each. They appear to be fixed only for now.
• Bitshares' PoS being better than Namecoin's PoW is a strawman argument, as no extra energy whatsoever is spent mining namecoins. Mining namecoins is virtually free, so long as the Bitcoin network exists.
• You could have put a bit more planning into the video, I am not impressed watching you hum and haw about what you're going to talk about next... but I understand I would probably make a similarly awkward video. Just watch it and edit it before you release it next time, you will be received much better I guarantee it.
• yes and no are not points. Also, I wish you would have elaborated more on what exactly a domain auction is and how it works via bitshares.
• you come off as snarky/rude towards namecoiners by smirking every time you mention how namecoin works. (like duhhh, right guys? Namecoin is soooo dumb and outdated!) We've been around for a lot longer than you, son. Give us some respect.
• who/what do you guys keep looking at off in the far distance when speaking to the camera!??! Jesus! lol
• it is not set in stone that namecoin domain purchase transactions will be eaten by the network, miners may receive them at a later date after registration in the future, namecoin is still in it's infancy.
• wtf is "ageoshare funding"? Is that what you said? And then wrote AGS funding? I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it.
• claiming namecoin has no funding is an outright lie.
• that's where I turned off the video.

All in all, you guys need some serious work on your professionalism, bullying competing coins, and public speaking skills. You failed at all 3 of those in this video.

Interesting feedback... but the answers clearly show that we need to improve our descriptions of things:

1) From the perspective of NMC holders, they are paying a heavy fee to 'miners' who may happen to share work with Bitcoin.  The point is it doesn't matter what the 'profit margins' are for the miners, paying them is still an expense on the network.

2) Price fixing even if the price changes by algorithm is still price fixing.  In other words, at any given point in time all names are the same price and that price is not set by market forces.

3) The purpose of the video was to get something out there quick, not to spend hours planning and editing. 

4) If there are any mistakes regarding funding that would be an honest misunderstanding. 

[vikram]

Comments from someone when I posted to /r/Namecoin: http://www.reddit.com/r/Namecoin/comments/20m3wu/video_comparison_of_bitshares_dns_vs_namecoin/

Just popping in to point out some innacuracies after watching the video.

• you state "namecoin price per domain is fixed", that is incorrect. Namecoin has been around for years now, the cost of the domains started out at 50 NMC each. They appear to be fixed only for now.
• Bitshares' PoS being better than Namecoin's PoW is a strawman argument, as no extra energy whatsoever is spent mining namecoins. Mining namecoins is virtually free, so long as the Bitcoin network exists.
• You could have put a bit more planning into the video, I am not impressed watching you hum and haw about what you're going to talk about next... but I understand I would probably make a similarly awkward video. Just watch it and edit it before you release it next time, you will be received much better I guarantee it.
• yes and no are not points. Also, I wish you would have elaborated more on what exactly a domain auction is and how it works via bitshares.
• you come off as snarky/rude towards namecoiners by smirking every time you mention how namecoin works. (like duhhh, right guys? Namecoin is soooo dumb and outdated!) We've been around for a lot longer than you, son. Give us some respect.
• who/what do you guys keep looking at off in the far distance when speaking to the camera!??! Jesus! lol
• it is not set in stone that namecoin domain purchase transactions will be eaten by the network, miners may receive them at a later date after registration in the future, namecoin is still in it's infancy.
• wtf is "ageoshare funding"? Is that what you said? And then wrote AGS funding? I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it.
• claiming namecoin has no funding is an outright lie.
• that's where I turned off the video.

All in all, you guys need some serious work on your professionalism, bullying competing coins, and public speaking skills. You failed at all 3 of those in this video.

[toast]

It was to communicate "angelshare funding", I didn't mean to imply distribution. DNS will be 50/50 pts/ags.

That is great! 
and how about the volume of DNS? 

Do you mean initial supply? I'm thinking either 5 million or 50 million.