3301
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 06:04:00 pm »
Someone sold 16 BTC worth of DNS on Bter and crashed the price 50%...
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3302
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:52:27 pm »Keep in mind that the "so-called" market cap on DNS and PTS is a very thin market and you are being moved to a much deeper market. Someone looking to sell 1% of PTS would push down the price much further and thus get much less than the market cap suggests... moving them into BTSX and selling the same amount would move the price less.
It is complicated, and I don't think that anything is going to be fair to everyone.
Yes I agree that the percentages are fair. I just think they shouldnt be subjected to a lockout, given that they are already liquid.
3303
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:49:54 pm »
I think that PTS and DNS should have no lockout period. Right now, you can already sell them on the exchange. It is unfair to lock out holders of these shares, who were already liquid at the time of the announcement. Like, you can literally go dump them RIGHT NOW, and then not face a lockout. (Note: I already dumped mine and bought BTSX with it, so this doesnt effect me. But it effects others and I want to push for fairness).
I think the lockout period for AGS and VOTE shares should be 6 months. 2 years is an eternity.
I think the lockout period for AGS and VOTE shares should be 6 months. 2 years is an eternity.
3304
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:45:07 pm »
A tip to anyone with PTS or DNS on exchanges (bt38 or bter): Based on this proposed allocation, and prices right now (BTSX 6100 sat, PTS 6600 sat, DNS 200 sat), you should sell your PTS and DNS, and buy BTSX.
I did this already. You'll get slightly more shares in the new BTS if you do this fast before prices adjust.
Obviously, if DNS and PTS fall and BTSX rises, youll need to do some math to see if this is still the case.
I did this already. You'll get slightly more shares in the new BTS if you do this fast before prices adjust.
Obviously, if DNS and PTS fall and BTSX rises, youll need to do some math to see if this is still the case.
3305
General Discussion / Re: How much should the hard coded cap on dilution/share issuance be, per year?
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:41:56 pm »
Personally my preference would be 10% for 2015 and 2016, falling to 5% after that. Because that is similar to bitcoin and is thus good for PR purposes. ("Its just like bitcoin, but we can actually use the money for useful things")
Since that might be difficult technically, either 5% or 10% are fine with me.
Since that might be difficult technically, either 5% or 10% are fine with me.
3306
General Discussion / Re: Proposed Allocation for Merger
« on: October 21, 2014, 05:25:14 pm »
3/3/7/7/80 is similar to the 10/10/80 proposal. (Which wasnt calculating DNS and VOTE in there - and the DNS and VOTE shares are pretty much allocations to PTS and AGS). This lines up well with market caps so it is pretty fair.
I do think the 2 year lockout period is very long. 2 years is forever in crypto.
That said, as a primarily BTSX holder I definitely vote yes. The only ones who might have a big complaint I think are those mostly in AGS/PTS, because the lockout period is very long.
I do think the 2 year lockout period is very long. 2 years is forever in crypto.
That said, as a primarily BTSX holder I definitely vote yes. The only ones who might have a big complaint I think are those mostly in AGS/PTS, because the lockout period is very long.
3307
General Discussion / Re: Summary of recent events / merger proposal
« on: October 21, 2014, 12:30:31 am »Based on the market action, it seems that most of those who would be opposed to this have simply dumped all their BTSX already, and that those who held are generally in favor.
Ridiculous assumption.
Okay. Some of those that were opposed dumped.
3308
General Discussion / Re: Question: Once we merge BTSX/PTS/AGS, how are shares of new independent DACs...
« on: October 21, 2014, 12:05:39 am »
It depends on what the new DAC wants...
1) Toolkit, bitusd, technical/marketing support on BTS-chain (partner)
2) Toolkit, no-bitusd, technical/marketing separate-chain (client)
3) Toolkit, no-bitusd, no technical/marketing separate-chain (fork/competitor)
I think...
#1 is something that is created within the new Bitshares. (A new BTS feature or asset).
#2 is something that you should give 20% to BTS and 80% to Dev.
#3 is... you didnt give 20% to BTS, so you are a competitor, and we are not going to support your attemtp to fork Bitshares and take it for yourself.
3309
General Discussion / Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« on: October 21, 2014, 12:03:36 am »
10/10/80 is slightly more generous than it looks like Bytemaster may have been discussing, which was in the 16-18% range for PTS+AGS (+DNS?). (That is, his original proposal seems to be more like my proposal A?)
If the PTS/AGS hholders end up getting 10/10/80, plus MUSIC shares that we BTSX holders didnt get, then you came out ahead.
if the PTS holders get just under that, console yourselves with the fact that you also got MUSIC and we (BTSX buyers) didnt.
If the PTS/AGS hholders end up getting 10/10/80, plus MUSIC shares that we BTSX holders didnt get, then you came out ahead.
if the PTS holders get just under that, console yourselves with the fact that you also got MUSIC and we (BTSX buyers) didnt.
3310
General Discussion / Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:56:07 pm »Then people will say but no, PTS obviously had value shaved off during snapshots and future value leading up to snapshots.
All of the value that PTS had shaved off during snapshots is made up with the fact that they GOT SHARES of DACs. For example, DNS and MUSIC.
People who just bought BTSX did NOT get MUSIC. If you just say "PTS should be valued more highly", then you basically give the person who bought PTS both new BTS AND MUSIC, while giving the person who bought BTSX only the BTS.
That is not fair. The PTS/AGS people need to get slightly lower amounts of BTS in order to account for the fact that they got other shares in the meantime.
My proposals from the first post are roughly fair. The 10/10/80 split is the most that should be given to PTS/AGS. Actually it is kindof unfair in their favor, over the BTSX holders. A 9/9/82 or 8/8/84 split is actually a lot fairer, based on market cap. The DNS and MUSIC shares that the PTS holders have makes up for the slightly lower allocation.
3311
General Discussion / Re: What does a fair allocation of Bitshares to BTSX/AGS/PTS holders look like?
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:51:33 pm »pre - 28th snapshot 0% on new BTS obviously
after 28th snapshot 30% / 10% / 60% AGS / PTS / BTSX.
The reason I believe in this allocation is because one should take into account the opportunity cost from the lack of liquidity to AGS and one shouldn't take into account the high valuation of BTSX @ $75 mil and the low of PTS @ 5 mil. AGS valuation should be much more than $5 mil imho...
This is kindof ridiculous.
You are basically stealing 10 million dollars from people who bought BTSX, and who bought AGS before Feb 28, and giving it to people who bought AGS after Feb 28. (Probably because you bought AGS after Feb 28).
Also, you are misrepresenting the proposal as giving a high value of $75M to BTSX, which it does NOT, it uses a low, recent value of $50M for BTSX.
We cannot give allocations that are significantly different than current market caps, because they are very unfair to some holders.
3312
General Discussion / Re: BITSHARES
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:48:07 pm »BitShares becomes the sole DAC, the other concepts become "DApps" as the ethereum guys like to sayToast, what about MUSIC? How does it fit in.
3313
General Discussion / Re: BITSHARES
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:47:42 pm »
It looks like MUSIC is separate.
DNS might or might not be separate.
Everything else looks like it will be under Bitshares. (including the reward of 20% of new DACs shares).
(Just my best guess based on what people look to be discussing).
DNS might or might not be separate.
Everything else looks like it will be under Bitshares. (including the reward of 20% of new DACs shares).
(Just my best guess based on what people look to be discussing).
3314
General Discussion / Re: Non-Dillutable BTSX
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:36:28 pm »
Yeah, we would all want the non-dilutable ones, because we all would want to have other people pay for the capital infusion but not us.
To be fair, everyone needs to be equal. 1 share is 1 share. Everyone equally pays for dilution, if it is voted for.
To be fair, everyone needs to be equal. 1 share is 1 share. Everyone equally pays for dilution, if it is voted for.
3315
General Discussion / Re: Cannabiscoin pegging 1 gram to 1 coin
« on: October 20, 2014, 11:34:17 pm »It's just a matter of time before pot is legal everywhere. As long as it's illegal in most places, having a BitCannabis would be one more reason for regulators to take a tough stance on BitShares. You want to have gateways with banks and stuff, then this is something you don't do. Ain't worth it.
This.
