5 days no answer

the fact that you have not received any answer for that is indeed a bit disturbing.. We should know if the referral does work or if we should hold our horses..

Quote from: mf-tzo on November 17, 2015, 09:21:41 am

I will read the doc later on..
so if i understand correctly what you are saying is that someone who wants to convert 50,000 euro to 50,000 bit eur he has first to go buy c15 mil BTS on the market and place an order to sell these 15 mil BTS for biteur at a fair price..

I think that even with a premium of 5% that order will not be filled easily and hence there will be a lot of exposure to the bts price by the time this order is filled right?

So essentially at this point trying to sell the idea of bitassets to serious investors who may have lots of money and be interested to convert their fiat to bitasset is not yet the right time..

Yes but there will be a 'market maker' who like to make some profit and dare to take the risk. He will create the liquidity for bitEUR and other bitassets.

I have been waiting for these market makers for the last 2 years...Hopefully one day..lol..Anyway we should be happy that we are still here after all these changes and bad decisions of the past..I know things will get better.one day..

But there are only 3,184 biteur on circulation and biteur holders sell them at ridiculous prices. Hence one must create  biteur by locking his bts as collateral and short sell biteur to himself. In the old system I knew how to do this. In the new system I am confused how this is done..

If I borrow i.e. 1,000 biteur from the system I need to lock 4,000 biteur worth of bts (i.e. 1.2 mil bts to have some peace of mind) to borrow 1,000 biteur..
So one has to buy 1.2 mil bts (spend 4,000 eur) just to borrow 1,000 biteur? But then I am exposed to bts price and this is not the purpose here..

all in all..i am still confused..what am I missing here?

Luckybit I value a lot your opinions I just don't want this to be manipulated by traders and this is something that needs more thorough thought..
See below some replies to yours..

Quote from: mf-tzo on November 15, 2015, 10:49:47 am

why establish a big shareholders club and not let every physical person to participate by locking BTS and reward them brownies (or even better another UIA or even better some bitusd) for doing so in proportion to their bts blocked and time blocked?

If you use another UIA it should still include a percentage of Brownies.  I don't know how it would work with another UIA which represents a basket of sharedrop tokens (including Brownies) so I would think Brownies is the easiest way to go about it in the beginning.

Brownies is the easiest way for sure in the beginning but changing the rules later on will not make people happy. Also there is always a risk of manipulating the price of Brownies since they can be used by people to get dumped once received by hedging opportunity costs. Market is irrational many times.

Quote from: mf-tzo on November 15, 2015, 10:49:47 am

Locking 1 M for 1 month and get awarded 50k of Brownies is like receiving something worth c$830 for blocking something worth c$3,330 for 1 month...I know that I would definitely go buy 1m BTS on the market and bock them for 1M if I get awarded 50k Brownies and probably dump them as soon as possible...So I don't think this is a good idea since Brownies will become worthless..

You wouldn't get your Brownies all at once. It should be you'd get them slowly over time just as if you're mining with the maximum over a fixed period of time being 50k. If you're only in it for the dollar amount then you'll dump your Brownies but people only in it for the dollar amount will probably not want to lock up 1 million Bitshares for some period of time.

I Agree with the steady release of Brownies. As I said above, don't think that market participants won't find ways to mamupulate the price of Brownies..

Also who said it has to be 1 month? The amount of time could have a minimum and a maximum, and be randomly set so that you don't even know for sure if it's going to be 1 month, or more, or less. The length of time could also be a configurable parameter which gets voted on, but in any case once you agree to lock up you can't unlock it prior to the time limit agreed to.

The point is if you dump your Brownies then you dump, but the person who doesn't dump would still have a better reputation than the person who does, and the longest locked holders could get additional UIA sharedrops according to the length of time they locked up. You can basically create an economy around reputation for being a whale supporter of BTS.

Quote from: mf-tzo on November 15, 2015, 10:49:47 am

I think it would be more normal to earn 5% interest on the bitusd value of the locked BTS. For example, lock 1M BTS for 1 Month will earn c$15 bitusd. The question is from where the bitusd will be found?From the network reserve pool? Is this a good idea?

I don't think you get the point. The goal isn't to pay people USD. The goal is to encourage people to be long term holders by giving them additional future equity, sharedrops, opportunities, rewards, etc. So people who have a reputation for proving they are willing to lock up their Bitshares for long periods of time should be rewarded.

People who just want cash will develop the reputation for immediately cashing out and compared to the people who hold longer, they'd probably not have an equal reputation. So it's kind of like how with Proof of Stake the older coin age means something, the same could be for the amount of time you keep your BTS locked up. If you set it to lock up for 1 month then 50,000 Brownies, and if you go longer than this then you could get priority in sharedrops because people launching new businesses or who are doing sharedrops probably want people who will be willing to lock up and not dump.

Earning bitusd for locking bts is like earning interest on your investment in this case bts. A BTS supporter never touches a certain amount of BTS no matter what. I think they would want to receive some bitusd, bitgold or a stable asset for holding those BTS rather than playing the market again by receiving Brownies which one day maybe worth 1BTS and the next day 20BTS depending on the news at that time and market traders who follow close pump and dump..I do not want Brownies to get manipulated the way BTS have been manipulated by traders in the past and quite often actually. Imagine I am a whale and lock 5Mil BTS for 1 month and receive within this month 250k Brownies which I dump on the market everytime I receive them..After this 1month (or whatever period) Brownies would be worth much much less now so once my BTS are unlocked I buy up all the Brownies I previously sold and keep them and next month I lock less BTS. I end up with many Brownies so people think I am a long term supporter and manage to lock less BTS next month..This is just a very quick idea.I am pretty sure others with trading bots and more sophisticated techiniques will find much better ways to manipulate the prices.. So this is the reason I would prefer people to receive stable bitasstes for locking their BTS than Brownies..

why establish a big shareholders club and not let every physical person to participate by locking BTS and reward them brownies (or even better another UIA or even better some bitusd) for doing so in proportion to their bts blocked and time blocked?

Locking 1 M for 1 month and get awarded 50k of Brownies is like receiving something worth c$830 for blocking something worth c$3,330 for 1 month...I know that I would definitely go buy 1m BTS on the market and bock them for 1M if I get awarded 50k Brownies and probably dump them as soon as possible...So I don't think this is a good idea since Brownies will become worthless..

I think it would be more normal to earn 5% interest on the bitusd value of the locked BTS. For example, lock 1M BTS for 1 Month will earn c$15 bitusd. The question is from where the bitusd will be found?From the network reserve pool? Is this a good idea?

Bitshares.gr is up and will be updated with more info soon so people in Greece have a place to learn about bitshares.

In the meantime any feedback, suggestions are much appreciated...

I have created a new account using my referal link as follows https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=mf-tzo/create-account#/create-account but the new account created is shown in the fee allocation as registar, lifetime referrer,registrar and affiliate referrer openledger-reg

So did I did anything wrong?
Is the referral not working yet?

I wonder how many idiots are there who would ever margin trade in a market of this size? ETH is one thing, but enabling the margin on BTS market is just fucking absurd. And dumbfucks from polo trollbox who were crying over their losses 3 days back, still keep talking up their margin positions... How could people physically be that stupid?

You can't have liquidity in a derivative market without margin trading and bitassets like bitusd is a derivative of usd. So ideally what we need is margin trading in bitusd and not margin trading in BTS like it is happening in Polo. Market makers should probably work on models to allow one to take leveraged positions in bitusd by blocking BTS collateral but I am not sure how this can happen since bitusd is created by putting BTS as collateral..

I guess that someone could create an UIAusd which is bought back on a daily basis at par to bitusd minus his fees. That person will be in control of the UIAusd so he can adjust the position and the daily available supply of UIAusd and people will be able to block an amount of BTS and borrow more UIAusd (leverage). This would help the bitusd liquidity and consequently the BTS liquidity and eventually would mean more demand for both bitusd and BTS and would increase BTS price..

What we are doing now is exactly the opposite though..Margin trading in BTS and essentially looking for trouble..  ooo well...