OK, according to the voting, the parameters in USD can be 0.1%/$0.003/$0.06

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20773.0.html

when will TBTC , TDOGE coming 

I don't think it's necessary to peg a unstable currency.

I think 0.2% is too high for micro-transactions. 0.05% would be better IMO (because given 0.05%, under $6 will be considered as "micro"transaction).
Regarding maximum, it can be debatable. I honestly agree with both sides, and am doubtful to both sides as well. Sometimes people pay relatively high fees in transferring BTC as well. For instance, Yunbi charges 0.001 BTC ($0.4 or 130 BTS) but people seem not care. How much people are willing to pay given 0.05% fee? That's beyond my capacity.

Bitshares is a platform.
Bitshares is a platform.
Bitshares is a platform.
repeated 3 times to emphasize the important thing.

yunbi charge 0.001 BTC for withdraw, it is not comparable to common transfer in Bitshares, it is more like a gateway withdraw service here.

I hope Bitshares can give users most freedom as a platform, can be most user/invester friendly as a platform.

BTS2.0 provide various ways for entrepreneurs to make profits - market fee of privatized smartcoins and UIA, FBA,  one can build his own business with these tools without disturbing other areas. this is wonderful scene.

but the referral program destroy all these, now new users need either pay high fee or pay the LTM fee, in my view paying some network fee is OK, users can understand and accept, but why need to pay so much to the so called referrers?  for months the daily transfer volume kept under 200, nothing can prove that the referral program will succeed.

this is Internet times, this is blockchain times, information passes quickly, seldom people rely on "referrers" to get useful information. and no new users will be happy when he know he not only need to pay to the network, but also need to pay the "referrers".

to me it is ok if the rate fall in 0.05% to 0.2% area, in my mind the max cap make more sense.

some said users which always transfer big does not care 30 BTS fee or 100 BTS fee, yes, some may do not care, but some really care, bitshaes need to attract as more people as possible.

What would you prefer in case of transferring 100k BTS?
- pay 1 BTS for the transfer fee and have all the complexity and high fees on the gateways
- pay 100 BTS for the transfer fee and have cheap & easy gateways

1BTS fee do not necessarily link to complexity and high fee gateway and 100 BTS fee does not necessarily link to cheap&easy gateway, and here the point is that gateway always provide  independent service, so gateway should charge independently and the gateway fee should not be added to the transfer fee.

I have a dream, I dream that one day each user can enjoy the cheap basic fee,  and if they like they can buy add-on service provided by entrepreneurs. and   can entrepreneurs can build their businesses freely via various tools on an attractive platform. 

 

Quote from: bitcrab on January 23, 2016, 02:58:54 am

Quote from: clayop on January 22, 2016, 11:01:28 pm

We first have to define the range of micro-transaction IMO.

Under $15? $6? $3?
Depending on the numbers, we can set the percentage. I personally like $15 which in turn has percentage fee of 0.02% (1/5000).
Given 0.02%, we can take max 300 BTS that gives equal fee amount to 0.2%/1/50 (but maximum 30 always gives less).

So I would suggest three options that generate about 300k BTS fee (the original value is about 480k)

1. 0.02% / min. 1 BTS / max. 300 BTS
2. 0.1% / min. 1 BTS / max. 60 BTS
3. 0.2% / min. 1 BTS / max. 50 BTS

If we can sacrifice about more fees, we can choose among

1. 0.01% / 1 / 300
2. 0.02% / 1/ 100
3. 0.2% / 1 / 30

These options generate about 200k BTS fee.

my suggestion: 0.2%/1/20
high friction hurt economy, now it's not time to try to make higher profit, it's time to make higher attraction!

so 0.2% for BTS holders and 2% for force settlement on TCNY.

or do you just mean 'high friction' is not a problem when the money end up in your own pocket?

first, 0.2% is a global parameter,  2% for TCNY  force settlement is for one single privatized smartcoin, you need not to touch it if you do not like it.
second, 2% force settlement compensation is to protect shorters, and then eliminate the unnecessary premium.
third, you can withdraw fiat CNY with TCNY with 0.3% fee.

We first have to define the range of micro-transaction IMO.

Under $15? $6? $3?
Depending on the numbers, we can set the percentage. I personally like $15 which in turn has percentage fee of 0.02% (1/5000).
Given 0.02%, we can take max 300 BTS that gives equal fee amount to 0.2%/1/50 (but maximum 30 always gives less).

So I would suggest three options that generate about 300k BTS fee (the original value is about 480k)

1. 0.02% / min. 1 BTS / max. 300 BTS
2. 0.1% / min. 1 BTS / max. 60 BTS
3. 0.2% / min. 1 BTS / max. 50 BTS

If we can sacrifice about more fees, we can choose among

1. 0.01% / 1 / 300
2. 0.02% / 1/ 100
3. 0.2% / 1 / 30

These options generate about 200k BTS fee.

my suggestion: 0.2%/1/20
high friction hurt economy, now it's not time to try to make higher profit, it's time to make higher attraction!

OK, here'are some summaries of analysis.

1. Minimum fee does not significantly influence total fee. Given 1% and 300 max (as suggested by jakub), min fee change from 1 to 6 only increases 1.8% of total fee. So I easily conclude that minimum fee is not that important, and lower minimum fee is more preferable to encourage micro-transactions. However, the minimum fee should be efficient to prevent spam. Therefore, I fixed the minimum fee to 1 BTS.

2. Given 1 BTS minimum, I tested scenarios proposed by bitcrab and jakub (0.1%/20 and 1%/300). Bitcrab's was 137k BTS fee in total while Jakub's is 1,830k BTS. I think the former is too small compared to transfer fees collected with 30 BTS flat fee. (137k vs. 13,212k, roughly 1%). While, the latter is 14%.

3. I tried to find a way to have the same level of fee as actually collected. But all scenarios are less then the 13mil BTS. So I conclude that it is impossible to have equal amount of fee under percentage-based fee system.

4. I checked how many txs are supposed to pay more (over 30 BTS) under 1% fee. It is found that 45% (7317/16243) of all transfers are affected implying more burdens in general. However, the rate decreases to 30% with 0.1% fee, and 25% with 0.05%. Meanwhile, 55% of transfers are benefited with 1% fee system, 69% with 0.1%, and 75% with 0.05%. The ratio of minimum-fee-paying transfers are 37%, 50%, 53% respectively (under 1%/0.1%/0.05% fee system).

These are my findings so far, and the followings are my opinions and suggestions.

1. I tried to have 5% of total fee actually collected. That is around 600k BTS.

2. I compared two fee rates, 0.1% and 0.05%. With 0.1%, 150 BTS maximum has 593k BTS fee. With 0.05%, 300 BTS maximum has 615k BTS fee.

3. I think lower percentage+high maximum is preferred to higher percentage+low maximum, because it is easy to justify "the bigger, the more". Given 0.05%/300, transfers over 600k BTS ($1800) pay the maximum fee of 300 BTS ($1).

So my suggestion is 0.05%/1/300. If you want to analyze by yourself, https://cryptofresh.com/bts_tx_history.csv will be the starting point (Thanks Roadscape).

upon on your analysis, I think maybe 0.5%/1/20 or even 1%/1/20 is better.
we need to encourage tipping, but we should not hurt big transfers, 300 BTS is unacceptable in any condition.