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Messages - Ben Mason

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76
There are alternatives to hard fork. A new Graphene based blockchain complete with new rules and a new share-drop  based on everything learned to date. Maximum supply could be set....a percentage of the sharedrop could be allocated for core feature development & maintenance, thereafter FBA's and such could build the rest.....
Yeah.. this is what I said above, a new chain, aka a fork.
Sorry if I've misunderstood or mixed up my terminology.....I meant that you don't need votes in order to launch a new chain and try to incentivise the building of a new network. i'm not saying that is the best thing to do (isn't there a Chinese chap doing exactly that?) just that it's an option. If a new Graphene network was launched which adequately compensated all the BitShares holders but had a new and improved configuration, both networks may survive or one will survive or both may fail. It depends on a lot of things but the closer the code gets to a stable core feature set and  the easier the tools become.....you could test a greater number of configurations and let market forces decide. It depends on your definition of community and If all Graphene based blockchains would be able to trade on the Dex.  There's no reason we can't have a super community dedicated to Graphene blockchain tech rather than one flavour. It's in our favour to break down silos anyway.

Feel free to shoot this lot down.....I may well be tying myself up in knots thinking about this stuff!

77
General Discussion / Re: Simulated proof of work
« on: March 31, 2016, 11:09:57 pm »
Cool idea puppies!!

78
General Discussion / Re: Mutual Aid Societies in the news
« on: March 29, 2016, 08:30:15 pm »
When posting about MAS to the Ethereum community I forgot to include a link to an article stating some big name company was looking into Ethereum and therefore "m00n".

That seems to be the prerequisite to getting everyone's attention over there, so I received exactly no replies in 24 hours.

Which is probably a good thing since this is Dan's baby.

I thought he'd perhaps given up on the idea and now that I know otherwise I will stop pursuing outside interest in the idea, except to bring others here to support Dan's original idea.

That's ironic given that one of the best ways to reach the "m00n" is to connect people with common, life-securing interests! It's going to be MAStastic around here soon!

79
[member=5699]Ben Mason[/member] , we all love bts. I am not again the development, but I don't like the Worker Way just as Yunbi.
like you said,  hope one day bitshares true value will reveal itself

Ok, I wish you could already see the value that has been bought with the workers. There is every reason for improving accountability and checking progress. There is so much to be proud of and full of hope for here. I hope we can find a compromise. I don't agree with yunbi's actions because they assumed consent. But I value everyone's efforts who have made BitShares what it is.

All the best Laow.

This is how every round with anti-dilution/workers ends.

One side says we need to develop and this is how it is getting done.

Other side says we need to develop and we don't want Workers doing it.. but we have no idea how to get it done.

As I stated earlier in a tongue and cheek way.. if there really is all this free labour in the wings.. if they step up and get things done, there is absolutely no reason for votes to use the Worker proposal system to fund fixes and updates etc. I highly suspect though that this army of free developers might be part of the anti-reality rally. Thus why we have not seen it.

If there truly was a desire to see bitshares developed without workers.. it could EASILY be done with those that claim they can contribute for free to step up and JUST DO IT!  +5% +5% +5%

It's so obvious.. if it's true.

You've been an absolute rock for BitShares. You constantly strive to put out honest sense. I honestly don't know what I would do without guys like you.

I really hope that the message is gradually getting through and it's worth it to keep trying because we are stronger together. A compromise based on facts can be reached. An awareness campaign that is as apolitical as possible and geared towards positivity and the future would really do us good. A combined status and committed deliverables outline of all things BitShares / Graphene / partners would be brilliant right about now.  I appreciate that is quite a challenge to organise and there are a variety of pressures / constraints that are a reality for several projects.....

80
[member=5699]Ben Mason[/member] , we all love bts. I am not again the development, but I don't like the Worker Way just as Yunbi.
like you said,  hope one day bitshares true value will reveal itself

Ok, I wish you could already see the value that has been bought with the workers. There is every reason for improving accountability and checking progress. There is so much to be proud of and full of hope for here. I hope we can find a compromise. I don't agree with yunbi's actions because they assumed consent. But I value everyone's efforts who have made BitShares what it is.

All the best Laow.

81
Good job!  +5%
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

So in the meantime what do you purpose we do? Will you do maintenance and bug fixing as well as improving the UI for a better user experience?

[member=15586]laow[/member] you still didn't answer my question
If I say yes, can you stop all the dilution, witness ,worker? 

And I have a question too, when the dilution stop, will you shutdown the server,  sell out the bts and leave the community?

Laow, there is a limit to the amount of dilution....there is a maximum supply. Without active development, this project is dead.  Only fools and traders will continue to hold for a time.....

Just please provide one explanation for how maintenance or continued development of core/existing features will be achieved without workers?

Please could you answer this question?

Just please provide one explanation for how maintenance or continued development of core/existing features will be achieved without workers?
Can you tell me first, did other crypto-currency project without Worker dead?
Ok, on the face of it, some crypto projects that have no active development appear to be alive. However, they are not and will be in terminal decline when viewed over time. Like the carcass of a whale in the sea continuing to give life for months or even years but then nothing. We all need to realise how young blockchain technology is and how little money is in it when compared with the trillions in the global economy. The development enables our technology to adapt and remain fit and healthy. There is still a lot to do before we are ready for mass adoption but we are closer to that today than we were before the improvements funded by worker dilution. If we can reach the point where our product is fit and our community unified......bitshares true value will reveal itself and Bitcoin, ethereum, etc (though I wish those projects well) will be far far behind.

82
Do any of you remember BM predicted the exact scenario that worker dilution on blokchain would fail eventually due to the inevitable politics ?

Well ,  I guess the smart guy himself didn't remember it either  .

It was a comment he directed to Memory coin's "direct pay to workers" operation .

So I guess the smart ass sentence should be : BM told you so ......

Where is the failure? So far, workers and dilution have succeeded in maintaining the network, completing further development of features begun the process of documentation etc etc. That is not a failure. Again you judge based on a short-term view of the price of BitShares. What potential is locked up within BitShares now that did not exist before? So there are now arguments about dilution.....even though there is a maximum supply. If some people want to turn on the biggest current source of value for BitShares then so be it.  If they want to throw a tantrum and leave, so be it. If they want to spread false information and damage BitShares out of spite, so be it. The fact is, all of this is about the short term and about greed. Politics can't undermine the need in the world for blockchain and the incredible tech that now exists.  It's up to us to make the most of it for BitShares.

Let's unify our efforts, stop undermining each other, review all workers for value and accountability in the context of the remaining available dilution and core feature development and maintenance. Let's review the status of everything related to BitShares and build an awareness campaign based on facts and actual delivery. There are a lot more people in the world than just the crypto speculators, let's start reaching them.

83
Good job!  +5%
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

So in the meantime what do you purpose we do? Will you do maintenance and bug fixing as well as improving the UI for a better user experience?

[member=15586]laow[/member] you still didn't answer my question
If I say yes, can you stop all the dilution, witness ,worker? 

And I have a question too, when the dilution stop, will you shutdown the server,  sell out the bts and leave the community?

Laow, there is a limit to the amount of dilution....there is a maximum supply. Without active development, this project is dead.  Only fools and traders will continue to hold for a time.....

Just please provide one explanation for how maintenance or continued development of core/existing features will be achieved without workers?

Please could you answer this question?

Just please provide one explanation for how maintenance or continued development of core/existing features will be achieved without workers?

84
Good job!  +5%
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

So in the meantime what do you purpose we do? Will you do maintenance and bug fixing as well as improving the UI for a better user experience?

[member=15586]laow[/member] you still didn't answer my question
If I say yes, can you stop all the dilution, witness ,worker? 

And I have a question too, when the dilution stop, will you shutdown the server,  sell out the bts and leave the community?

Laow, there is a limit to the amount of dilution....there is a maximum supply. Without active development, this project is dead.  Only fools and traders will continue to hold for a time.....

Just please provide one explanation for how maintenance or continued development of core/existing features will be achieved without workers?

85
General Discussion / Re: [ANN] New Money project & SOLCERT token
« on: March 28, 2016, 11:20:07 pm »
Congratulations on launching your project Solomon and with your collaborations! Very very exciting! I don't have the funds to invest at this point but wish you the very best of luck.

86
General Discussion / Re: Mutual Aid Societies in the news
« on: March 28, 2016, 11:13:26 pm »
These are excellent potential use cases! Also, if the trend is growing then the timing couldn't be better.  Let's help put the 'community' back into society.

87
General Discussion / Re: Mutual Aid Societies in the news
« on: March 28, 2016, 11:07:26 pm »
I'm sorry tuck, I'm very interested, just haven't had a chance to take a propoer look yet.

89
There could be a warning on bitshares.org and any landing page where people download a wallet:

"WARNING.  Some centralized exchanges  may use any BTS you keep on them by voting with YOUR stake in ways that may not be in your best interest."

 +5%

That's an interesting start! It's tempting to add ".....and where a proof of reserve is not offered, may be operating a fractional reserve which could lead to market price manipulation and lost funds."

90
I agree with svk...
From what I see the ANTI anti-dilution  movement declares all arguments for responsible spending  'stupid' or completely ignore them and continue claiming no such were made
The other tactic is claiming 'anti-dilutioner' somehow try to destroy BTS while the reality is ALL workers are well and voted in.
I know it will be too much to ask, having in mind the above behavior, but how about accepting for a second "dilution is generally not good right now, we have to try to prove or at least argue why this particular spending will be beneficial!" Every worker explaining in detail how his work will increase the market cap despite the dilution it will cost.
What I mean is addressing concerns upfront, instead of putting labels on groups and claiming they mean bad before their actions have prevented a single worker getting paid.

Any reasonable approach that advocates for accountable workers and appropriately used dilution is to everyone's benefit. This should be obvious to all. As obvious as no dilution under any circumstances is obviously not. There are other ways to change the situation for the better than stopping worker dilution, even in the short term. Let's do these things first and let development continue.

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