Author Topic: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC  (Read 4758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Delegate team - bitcoiners

Introduction
After a great deal of consideration, hours of discussion and several nights of ‘sleeping on it’, we have decided to relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC. We recognize that our community has been through quite a whirlwind as of late, and we are mindful of not causing additional concerns. To that end we will make every effort to present a clear picture of what we hope to achieve and why.

The Vision
We feel that there’s a strong case to be made for a ‘stand alone’ BitShares DNS DAC, which in all reality, is not fully independent from the main DAC, but coexists with it in a symbiotic relationship.  We recognize the importance of the strategic decision to form the BitShares Super DAC at this time, and the benefits that will inevitably bring to BitShares community.  At the same time, we feel there is so much room for development within the DNS space itself and huge potential for symbiosis and co-evolution of independent blockchains.

BitShares DAC diversity can only strengthen BitShares community,providing another playground for experimentation in organizational structures, business plans,and governance models.  Multiple BitShares DACs sub-communities may take different approaches and learn from, and collaborate with one another. BitShares DNS DAC will aim to reach a complementary development path with BitShares, each working on features beneficial to the other, but focusing on different applications and user groups within this large field.

BitShares DNS DAC will position as a “web 2.0” DAC, and may have a different regulation and oversight profile from BitShares super DAC, potentially providing some extra insulation from external threats.

We foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.

Our primary allegiance being to the BitShares community and vision, we are compelled by the possibilities of keeping the BitShares DNS dream alive in it’s own right and seeking out areas of collaboration between the chains.

Immediate goals:

  • Seek broad consensus from the community based on the merits of this proposal.
  • Seek agreement on pushing out KeyID blockchain end-of-life a month or more into the future to allow adequate preparation for re-launch as BitShares DNS and to reduce disruption to existing participants.
  • To continue listing KeyID’s DNS tokens on exchanges past November 5, as “proto-shares” in the upcoming BitShares DNS until the new DAC is launched.
  • Give community members the opportunity to take a position and make a choice on whether they wish to participate in the project based on the new plan.
  • Discuss blockchain symbiosis.


Midterm goals:

  • Discuss organizational and funding considerations
  • Assemble team with all the necessary skills and expertise to preparate smooth and secure launch of the new DNS DAC.
  • Write new BitShares DNS White Paper


Come with us! Lets build the “Web 2.0” DAC!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:13:25 pm by toast »
>>> approve bitcoiners

Offline Rune

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 04:29:36 pm »
The harsh reality is, if you're open source (which is a requirement to most), then BTS shareholders will vote to copy every single feature you implement that works at creating value for your DAC in some way.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 04:31:09 pm »
+1  I support this if it can be executed smoothly.

What do you want to do with dev fund? Are there any other developers working with you?
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 04:42:59 pm »
The harsh reality is, if you're open source (which is a requirement to most), then BTS shareholders will vote to copy every single feature you implement that works at creating value for your DAC in some way.

People always say this, but I suspect it's far less true than you'd expect. The reality is that people get emotionally attached to their pet ideas and this makes them very resistant to copying effective approaches from different communities. Take Nxt's stance on bitAssets, which can mostly be summarized by "scam ponzi scam the Larimers hate babies!" Nxt's entrenched ideas about how crypto should work kept them from recognizing the power of the bitAsset, so they're missing their chance to implement something similar.


Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 04:46:53 pm »
Hmmm....so will this in effect be competing with the SuperDAC's implementation of DNS? Sounds confusing to me...

Offline biophil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • Professor of Computer Science
    • View Profile
    • My Academic Website
  • BitShares: biophil
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 04:47:07 pm »
As far as BitcoinerS's proposal, I'm all for it. I'm skeptical that you'll be able to effectively compete with BTS (I just can't bring myself to say the word "superDAC" - it's way too jl777 for me), but I don't see any harm in trying. If you actually can pull off this symbiosis, it could be pretty great. I will plan on picking up some cheap post-snapshot shares, anyway.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Support our research efforts to improve BitAsset price-pegging! Vote for worker 1.14.204 "201907-uccs-research-project."

Offline matt608

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2014, 04:50:01 pm »
:s  I don't understand.  DNS holders have just been airdropped BTS to include them and some of the 3i team spent their own funds compensating DNS holders who got a raw deal.  Now you're going back on it?  So DNS will have its own competing shares and delegates?  Will you snapshot BTS?  Have an IPO? This is insane.  The market is in turmoil and people just keep changing things.

So who is it exactly who is now 100% focused on BTS?  Sorry but I don't know who you are bitcoinerS. 

It's a relief to see you will use bitassets from BTS at least.  I don't know how that will work, won't holders of DNS want you to use their own in house bitassets to increase DNS value?

I follow everything that is said on this forum and I still have no idea what is going on.  What does "a different regulation and oversight profile" mean?

This is what happens when there are no contracts, developers just do whatever they want and don't finish things.

If DNS can just splinter off, what's stopping VOTE doing the same thing?  I thought these were things BM had agreed with you.

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2014, 04:50:48 pm »
Really? This is just what we need right now. DNS getting a pump, and BTSX losing some more value.

I still support the Bitshares community, but Al these sudden announcements/proposals could be interpreted as some cheeky money scams.

Buy up DNS at all time low, then announce/propose to continue.

Offline matt608

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2014, 04:51:41 pm »
Really? This is just what we need right now. DNS getting a pump, and BTSX losing some more value.

I still support the Bitshares community, but Al these sudden announcements/proposals could be interpreted as some cheeky money scams.

Buy up DNS at all time low, then announce/propose to continue.

Yeah its almost as if new proposals are made deliberately to spread confusion.

Offline Rune

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2014, 04:58:23 pm »
The harsh reality is, if you're open source (which is a requirement to most), then BTS shareholders will vote to copy every single feature you implement that works at creating value for your DAC in some way.

People always say this, but I suspect it's far less true than you'd expect. The reality is that people get emotionally attached to their pet ideas and this makes them very resistant to copying effective approaches from different communities. Take Nxt's stance on bitAssets, which can mostly be summarized by "scam ponzi scam the Larimers hate babies!" Nxt's entrenched ideas about how crypto should work kept them from recognizing the power of the bitAsset, so they're missing their chance to implement something similar.


Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

There's a very big difference between "people" and "capital holders". In a blockchain ecosystem where consensus is primarily determined through forums "witch hunt style" (ie the developers can do whatever they want but if they do something that goes viral and pisses netizens off there is hell to pay), then people most definitely attach to memes and cultural ideals, because that's how you express yourself through forums most effectively. So we get this culture where bitcoiners freak out at anything they consider "centralized" or "premined" etc.

When we start to see a system where it is capital holders only that makes decisions (through stake voting), then we will rapidly move towards a decision culture where the only thing that will be taken into consideration is profit. Initially there might be some ideology involved, but capital will always move from those who allocate it based on ideology, to those who allocate it based on expected profit. The large capital holders of bitshares will be very experienced at analyzing what will be profitable for them, and once the meme culture that used to dominate most internet communities is fully replaced, profit will be the only thing that matters in all our business/DAC related communication.

I think most people will come to the logical conclusion that maximizing ethical behaviour of the DAC is the most profitable strategy in the very long term. But copying features from other open source projects is by the definition of open source not unethical, and I don't think our shareholders will hold their breath for even a second before voting to do it.

Offline Empirical1.1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 05:04:10 pm »
 +5% Good luck guys  :)

So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone?

Edit: I really like one simple focused BitShares, but yeah big month
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:06:28 pm by Empirical1.1 »

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2014, 05:06:21 pm »
+5% Good luck guys  :)

So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone?
+5% this is getting silly now.

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2014, 05:08:41 pm »
+5% Good luck guys  :)

So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone?
+5% this is getting silly now.

Lots of people had interest in a DNS DAC.  Honestly, I don't think DNS should ever be a feature of superDAC anyway.  We'd be losing focusing and bringing attention of authorities.  It is about finding a developer willing and capable of doing the work.

edit - Also, these are third parties.  No longer I3 DACs.  Can't really expect everyone to sit around and do nothing while BTS grows.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 05:10:40 pm by gamey »
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12914
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2014, 05:10:41 pm »
+5% Good luck guys  :)

So PTS & AGS are kind of carrying on separately, DNS is carrying on separately. Vote was never really started... 30 day rewind anyone?

Edit: I really like one simple focused BitShares, but yeah big month
+5%
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2014, 05:13:14 pm »
Just to be clear I am pretty confident nobody will actually revive it. BTC38 wants to de-list it.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline oco101

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2014, 05:24:03 pm »
Well the idea has merits, but it may not be the right time to do it.
Call it KeyID or call it DNS as a third party DAC but please don't associated with the original Bitshares DNS. Right now Is is already confusing as is it and will hurt your DAC and it will hurt Bitshare too.

Actually third parties DAC forked from Bithsare toolkit is what we want   because this was the original vision of I3,  so KeyID and PTS DPOS are welcomed, but probably this is the worst moment because it will only add more to the panic and confusion.
Please keep working on this and when the time comes we all be all ready to welcome you  KeyID.  So keep on doing the good job bitcoinerS, you got toast support this is great.

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2014, 05:37:23 pm »
Well the idea has merits, but it may not be the right time to do it.
Call it KeyID or call it DNS as a third party DAC but please don't associated with the original Bitshares DNS. Right now Is is already confusing as is it and will hurt your DAC and it will hurt Bitshare too.

Actually third parties DAC forked from Bithsare toolkit is what we want   because this was the original vision of I3,  so KeyID and PTS DPOS are welcomed, but probably this is the worst moment because it will only add more to the panic and confusion.
Please keep working on this and when the time comes we all be all ready to welcome you  KeyID.  So keep on doing the good job bitcoinerS, you got toast support this is great.


 +5% The merger is necessary to alleviate confusion, and random changes like this only further confuse...

Offline neo1344

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2014, 05:38:45 pm »
 what s happening, are we goxxxed?

Offline CoinHoarder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
  • In Cryptocoins I Trust
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2014, 05:43:41 pm »
We foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.

This is apparently not possible, and was one of the biggest reasons for the merger.

+5% this is getting silly now.
I prefer the word ridiculous, but +5%

1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.
2. Stop changing things on a whim.
3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.
4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.
5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..
6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.
https://www.decentralized.tech/ -> Market Data, Portfolios, Information, Links, Reviews, Forums, Blogs, Etc.
https://www.cryptohun.ch/ -> Tradable Blockchain Asset PvP Card Game

Offline nomoreheroes7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 756
  • King of all the land
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nomoreheroes7
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2014, 05:50:01 pm »
We foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.

This is apparently not possible, and was one of the biggest reasons for the merger.

+5% this is getting silly now.
I prefer the word ridiculous, but +5%

1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.
2. Stop changing things on a whim.
3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.
4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.
5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..
6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.

Dang CoinHoarder, laying down the law. But I agree completely. This is a terrible idea right now, when BTS is already awash in mass panic dumping and confusion. All this does is hurt the brand as a whole.

I almost wish there were some way to destroy the old tokens that are getting airdropped BTS...they're getting airdropped for a reason, and competing with the old tokens is not in anyone's best interest.

Offline Rune

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1120
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2014, 06:01:02 pm »
This is not the official DNS team at all! this is completely unrelated to the bitshares team! If people are getting nervous from this thread having been posted, it should be deleted. Chinese people might understand only parts of it and think that DNS is getting restarted and the plans have changed again。

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2014, 06:09:11 pm »
This is not the official DNS team at all! this is completely unrelated to the bitshares team! If people are getting nervous from this thread having been posted, it should be deleted. Chinese people might understand only parts of it and think that DNS is getting restarted and the plans have changed again。
This might be a third party DAC, but they are proposing using the current DNS as proto shares.
So this will have implications for DNS and BTSX. So effectively it's no different from DNS restarting.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2014, 06:33:51 pm »
Well looks like the response is overwhelmingly negative!

Exchanges want to kill it too.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2014, 07:43:31 pm »
If one really takes the time to grok the OP, and understand it's intent, then all subsequent post would look very different.
It's the English to English translation which concerns me more than anything.

Let's examine this proposal on it's merits, not on all subsequent assumptions being made.  In general I find this community to be a very enlightened bunch, but there are some rather alarmist sentiments (assumptions) being expressed here in this thread.

If there are issues which need to be addressed, let's do that.  Not let the whole thread become a wash of rumor and conjecture.

I'm bits, and at the moment I'm here to help articulate team bitcoinerS position on the matter.  I'm personally dedicated to BTS, and focused on grassroots marketing for BTS, but here I will be able to act in a support capacity for team bitcoinerS and attempt to clear up any misunderstandings.

If the proposal 'as it actually exists' is not desirable, or impossible to articulate, then so be it, it will be modified or laid to rest.

I will now attempt to address your concerns one by one, and then let's see where we are at.

Thanks for your calm consideration.  More to follow.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2014, 07:51:24 pm »
+1  I support this if it can be executed smoothly.

What do you want to do with dev fund? Are there any other developers working with you?

To my knowledge there are a handful of devs who have expressed interest in working on a DNS related project.
I will let bitcoinierS address this himself, I am not a developer.  As to dev fund, my own personal feeling is that would be your call Toast, this would be a new story, and that money was tucked away for the previous iteration, so it seems more like BTS funding to me, for KeyID, but that's just my opinion.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2014, 07:57:55 pm »
Hmmm....so will this in effect be competing with the SuperDAC's implementation of DNS? Sounds confusing to me...

Notice in the OP it says:
BitShares DNS DAC will aim to reach a complementary development path with BitShares, each working on features beneficial to the other, but focusing on different applications and user groups within this large field.

DNS is a huge huge space, there is potential to advance together while maintaining autonomous positions.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2014, 08:06:04 pm »
:s  I don't understand.  DNS holders have just been airdropped BTS to include them and some of the 3i team spent their own funds compensating DNS holders who got a raw deal.  Now you're going back on it?  So DNS will have its own competing shares and delegates?  Will you snapshot BTS?  Have an IPO? This is insane.  The market is in turmoil and people just keep changing things.

I3 did what they felt was needed to to make things right for the community.  They have acted to keep the core devs under one umbrella and on the same blockchain.  This is supported in the OP.  Team BitcoinerS is advocating the continuation of independent, co-evolutionary development.  Not looking to compete with BTS.

So who is it exactly who is now 100% focused on BTS?  Sorry but I don't know who you are bitcoinerS.

Team Bitcoiners is a delegate in the BTS community, with support from a loose group of developers who have expressed interest in advancing DNS services.  BitcoinerS is friends with delegate team Bits, I'm more focused on rolling out grassroots marketing efforts for BTS, but provide backup technical support and copywriting for bitcoinerS.

0
It's a relief to see you will use bitassets from BTS at least.  I don't know how that will work, won't holders of DNS want you to use their own in house bitassets to increase DNS value

The goal is to make the whole ecosystem stronger.  If this proposal advanced without regard to mutually beneficial development, who would that help?
Team bitcoinerS is talking about an alliance.


I follow everything that is said on this forum and I still have no idea what is going on.  What does "a different regulation and oversight profile" mean?

It means DNS is exposed to different degrees of scrutiny and will face different battles, Team bitcoinerS is suggesting that in this instance two separate allied entities will be both more effective and resilient than just one.

This is what happens when there are no contracts, developers just do whatever they want and don't finish things.

If DNS can just splinter off, what's stopping VOTE doing the same thing?  I thought these were things BM had agreed with you.

BM and Toast and others can still be focused and undivided in their allegiance and efforts to make BTS every more amazing.  This wouldn't be a splinter.  It's a friendly alliance between groups with mutual interests.  That language, 'splinter', is in itself damaging to further understanding the OP's original intent, and is found nowhere in any of the ideas expressed there.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2014, 08:07:21 pm »
Big time, energy, resource suck if you ask me.  Have fun.  Hope you don't hurt too many people in the process...but I suspect you will anyway.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2014, 08:13:58 pm »
Really? This is just what we need right now. DNS getting a pump, and BTSX losing some more value.

I still support the Bitshares community, but Al these sudden announcements/proposals could be interpreted as some cheeky money scams.

Buy up DNS at all time low, then announce/propose to continue.

Yeah its almost as if new proposals are made deliberately to spread confusion.

This is the exact opposite sentiment of the OP.  "Almost as if" [malicious assumption] = opposite of helpful.

We recognize that our community has been through quite a whirlwind as of late, and we are mindful of not causing additional concerns. To that end we will make every effort to present a clear picture of what we hope to achieve and why.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2014, 08:20:08 pm »
Big time, energy, resource suck if you ask me.  Have fun.  Hope you don't hurt too many people in the process...but I suspect you will anyway.

I'm on the fence myself, but I understand that the intent is not to 'suck' any of those things.  If after people understand the idea fully, they are able to articulate why this is an unhelpful development, that will shape the outcome.  I'm hoping for more than 'have fun', though I totally understand your concerns.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2014, 08:27:29 pm »
Well the idea has merits, but it may not be the right time to do it.
Call it KeyID or call it DNS as a third party DAC but please don't associated with the original Bitshares DNS. Right now Is is already confusing as is it and will hurt your DAC and it will hurt Bitshare too.

Actually third parties DAC forked from Bithsare toolkit is what we want   because this was the original vision of I3,  so KeyID and PTS DPOS are welcomed, but probably this is the worst moment because it will only add more to the panic and confusion.
Please keep working on this and when the time comes we all be all ready to welcome you  KeyID.  So keep on doing the good job bitcoinerS, you got toast support this is great.

I think the idea has merits as well, and we are talking about a third party DAC here, but one that wishes peace and cooperation, among development and community.

As to the timing, I believe team bitcoinerS will be very receptive to suggestions about how to do this in a way that is least disruptive to the community, as that is definitely not the intent.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2014, 08:40:12 pm »
We foresee BitShares DNS DAC accepting some BitAssets from the main BitShares DAC, such as BitUSD as payment for offered services, adding liquidity to the main BitShares DAC.

This is apparently not possible, and was one of the biggest reasons for the merger.

+5% this is getting silly now.
I prefer the word ridiculous, but +5%

1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.
2. Stop changing things on a whim.
3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.
4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.
5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..
6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.

1. There is no withdrawl.  This is proposal for an independent, allied DAC.
2. ...
3. It's messy, there's no question, you're right.  What's the best solution?  I'm confident there are elegant solutions and we will find them, that's what we do.
4. It's a multi-directional street.  We are talking about separate but friendly development teams advancing along mutually beneficial lines and each strengthening the other's hand.
5. I don't wish to speak for Toast, but my understanding is that he will continue working on those features within BTS.  The idea is to have Toast on the BTS team and bitcoinerS keeping a separate but allied DNS DAC alive along mutually beneficial lines of development.
6. This proposal in no way threatens the BTS merger, or the amazing potential of BTS development.  I understand your frustrations, but characterizing this community as a circus will not help the situation.

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2014, 08:56:09 pm »
This is not the official DNS team at all! this is completely unrelated to the bitshares team! If people are getting nervous from this thread having been posted, it should be deleted. Chinese people might understand only parts of it and think that DNS is getting restarted and the plans have changed again。
This might be a third party DAC, but they are proposing using the current DNS as proto shares.
So this will have implications for DNS and BTSX. So effectively it's no different from DNS restarting.

As to what happens to the current DNS tokens, that is a big matter to consider for sure.  And I don't personally know what the best answer is.  I think the initial idea was to not lose the underlying base of those who had expressed interest by supporting the project, and carry it forward, also allowing for folks to re-establish a position, but I'm probably not the best person to articulate the nuances of this particular issue.  Seems like something Bytemaster would be able to cut through with laser like clarity.

This is an area which needs to be more clearly fleshed out, I'm just not the one to weigh the options.

Thanks everyone for reading through my attempts at moderating a clear discussion.  You all don't know me very well, but I dearly love this community and want the best for everyone involved.  As the OP states, the first goal is 'broad consensus based on the merits'.  I have known bitcoinerS for many years and I can tell you that they have been one of the strongest advocates and supporters of BTS, and have a deep commitment to do what is best for the community.  I have full faith that we can think through all the angles and implications without resorting to hyperbole, and arrive at a sound conclusion.

Offline CoinHoarder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
  • In Cryptocoins I Trust
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2014, 09:40:28 pm »
If one really takes the time to grok the OP, and understand it's intent, then all subsequent post would look very different.
It's the English to English translation which concerns me more than anything.

Let's examine this proposal on it's merits, not on all subsequent assumptions being made.  In general I find this community to be a very enlightened bunch, but there are some rather alarmist sentiments (assumptions) being expressed here in this thread.

If there are issues which need to be addressed, let's do that.  Not let the whole thread become a wash of rumor and conjecture.

I'm bits, and at the moment I'm here to help articulate team bitcoinerS position on the matter.  I'm personally dedicated to BTS, and focused on grassroots marketing for BTS, but here I will be able to act in a support capacity for team bitcoinerS and attempt to clear up any misunderstandings.

If the proposal 'as it actually exists' is not desirable, or impossible to articulate, then so be it, it will be modified or laid to rest.

I will now attempt to address your concerns one by one, and then let's see where we are at.

Thanks for your calm consideration.  More to follow.

When I first read the OP it was not clear that this was a third party DAC, I thought the DNS DAC was shifting gears. That affected my response and I'm sure others were confused as well.. as I am a native English speaker. It looks like Toast edited the title to make it clear it is a 3rd party DAC, which was a good move.

1. If the DNS DAC is withdrawing from the merger, they should not be share dropped in the BTS merger.
2. Stop changing things on a whim.
3. This is another thing I HATE about the merger.. it is an incredibly bad practice to release a cryptocurrency, snapshot it, then move to a new chain and deem the old tokens as being extinct. There are many dynamics of why this is bad and I don't care to spend hours explaining it as I feel like it should be common sense.
4. As mentioned previously, there is nothing stopping other DACs from implementing your features. This is another reason for the merger. Other DACs were going to copy BTSX's bitasset feature, there is nothing stopping BTS from doing the same.
5. I thought Toast was doing the DNS DAC, what is Bitcoiners/Toast's relation to the project? This just adds another layer of confusion..
6. Bitshares is starting to look more like a circus than a company. I am not here for entertainment. I am not surprised people are selling BTSX, I am very close to doing so myself. Please don't push me over that line that I am hovering around.

1. There is no withdrawl.  This is proposal for an independent, allied DAC.
2. ...
3. It's messy, there's no question, you're right.  What's the best solution?  I'm confident there are elegant solutions and we will find them, that's what we do.
4. It's a multi-directional street.  We are talking about separate but friendly development teams advancing along mutually beneficial lines and each strengthening the other's hand.
5. I don't wish to speak for Toast, but my understanding is that he will continue working on those features within BTS.  The idea is to have Toast on the BTS team and bitcoinerS keeping a separate but allied DNS DAC alive along mutually beneficial lines of development.
6. This proposal in no way threatens the BTS merger, or the amazing potential of BTS development.  I understand your frustrations, but characterizing this community as a circus will not help the situation.

1. That was not made clear in the OP until a later edit.. I am assuming just before you read the thread and made your first post.
2. Changing incentives of the social contract and playing with dilution was what I was referring to as things that should not be changed on a whim. Again, now that I know it's a 3rd party DAC this doesn't apply.
3. .... A good solution should be found before implementing anything and making an "official" decision. Bitshares is shooting from the hips.
4. What would be mutually beneficial about this? All I see is a potential competitor to BTS's DNS features.
5. I think that is clear now, this is a 3rd party DAC and has nothing to do with Toast or BTS.
6. Yes, now that there has been more clarification I don't think it will affect the merger. I think it still creates unnecessary complication to the ecosystem, confusion among investors and users, and competition for BTS though. I know characterizing this as a circus does not help but I call it like I see it, and again Bitshares is shooting from the hip.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 09:45:15 pm by CoinHoarder »
https://www.decentralized.tech/ -> Market Data, Portfolios, Information, Links, Reviews, Forums, Blogs, Etc.
https://www.cryptohun.ch/ -> Tradable Blockchain Asset PvP Card Game

Offline ticklebiscuit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2014, 11:38:53 pm »
Bump for money!

Offline amencon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2014, 12:41:03 am »
I support this initiative.  The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS.  If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better.  I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.

Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.

Thanks.

Offline BTS007

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2014, 03:46:13 am »
crazy!crazy!crazy!crazy!!!
BTS ID:bts007

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2014, 05:15:15 am »
I support this initiative.  The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS.  If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better.  I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.

Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.

Thanks.

As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther.  Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction).  Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs.  Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will.  If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. 

Think bigger guys and girls!  This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry!  Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1).  Then you have made off QUITE nicely.  If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... 

People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine.  Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence.  Think of it as cheap advertising...

When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon.  Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 05:51:25 am by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline lovejoy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 431
    • View Profile
    • Cryptofresh
  • BitShares: lovejoy
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2014, 06:53:44 am »
 +5%

words like spring rain in the high desert..  8)

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2014, 07:23:38 am »
I support this initiative.  The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS.  If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better.  I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.

Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.

Thanks.

As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther.  Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction).  Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs.  Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will.  If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. 

Think bigger guys and girls!  This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry!  Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1).  Then you have made off QUITE nicely.  If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... 

People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine.  Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence.  Think of it as cheap advertising...

When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon.  Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"

I like that.  The bigger the bitshare ecosystem, the more people will notice us.   +5%
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2014, 08:07:39 am »
I support this initiative.  The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS.  If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better.  I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.

Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.

Thanks.

As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther.  Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction).  Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs.  Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will.  If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. 

Think bigger guys and girls!  This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry!  Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1).  Then you have made off QUITE nicely.  If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... 

People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine.  Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence.  Think of it as cheap advertising...

When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon.  Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"

I like that.  The bigger the bitshare ecosystem, the more people will notice us.   +5%
Yes, maybe we should give Vote, DNS and BTS their own chains. ::)

But for real. The timing for this proposal is just off. If they were to have their own share no problem, but sharedropping on DNS is not a good idea.
We just settled on the merger sharedrop, even giving some DNS from the dev fund to make people whole. And if this were to go through, it would give a small incentive for selling BTSX and buying DNS, making the merger for simplification even more complicated.

Since DNS holders are made whole, I would suggest waiting until after the merger snapshot and just sharedrop on PTS/AGS/BTS in whatever combination you think is best.

Other than that go for it, and good luck.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 08:39:33 am by Graffenwalder »

Offline liondani

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • Inch by inch, play by play
    • View Profile
    • My detailed info
  • BitShares: liondani
  • GitHub: liondani
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2014, 09:16:29 am »
Do we focus on BTS or NOT? Common guys !!!
Let's contribute all on bitshares, because if we divide to a couple of projects I am afraid  we will get the biggest joke in crypto-world after the "merge"!

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2014, 10:31:54 am »
Do we focus on BTS or NOT? Common guys !!!
Let's contribute all on bitshares, because if we divide to a couple of projects I am afraid  we will get the biggest joke in crypto-world after the "merge"!

The focus is on BTS.  Having more altcoins does not take the focus off BTC from the BTC users.  Instead, they make BTC the central crypto of all exchanges. Similarly Bitshare is  the centre of attention here.

The crypto world has made tremendous progress in the last few years due to innovations and the diversity of new ideas.  Bitshare is a good example. It would not exist if somebody restricted Dan from using his creativity and stopped his bitshare experiment.  And we would not be here sharing and exchanging ideas.

Let's embrace diversity and reject restrictions.  Let the bright and creative minds continue to innovate.


ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2014, 10:42:44 am »
Do we focus on BTS or NOT? Common guys !!!
Let's contribute all on bitshares, because if we divide to a couple of projects I am afraid  we will get the biggest joke in crypto-world after the "merge"!

This isn't bitcoin (oh wait...it is surviving quite well despite is thousands of altcoins! :P).  But even better...BTS actually has the ability to GAIN CONSENSUS on which features altchains provide that they would like to adopt.  The shareholders will decide which ones to integrate and which will not.  Bitcoin is inferior precisely because it cannot adapt like BitShares can.  I promise you BTS will not die from this and I certainly to not consider it a hostile takeover.  This is open source space guys and gals.  Whether you like it or not, unfortunately these are the realities we face. 

So what are our choices? 
1) Embrace change and open source
2) Seek out investments in more Centralized Control Structures (some good they have done us thus far!)
3) Support with our funds what we believe in and hold our funds from the projects we do not believe will make it.

This is open source.  There are amazing aspects to it and scary ones.  We either alienate ourselves as a community from those who want to innovate and either compete or be bought out (thus mutually assuring to NEVER be sharedropped on by developers) or we accept it as the name of the game and try to make something valuable from it. 

If anyone sees other choices, I am interested in hearing about them...but sincerely do not see any.  I for one will always invite this kind of thing however.  In fact, you might all be invited rather shortly (within the coming weeks) to a Dev Hangout for BitcoinerS and Alphabar so you can give your opinions and ask your questions there.  :)
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

sumantso

  • Guest
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2014, 12:03:51 pm »
Its a free country, if they want to make one they can. Good luck :)

The thread is quite interesting - you can easily pick out who have invested more in BTS or DNS. Except a handful few, most of the posts can be simplified to personal greediness (including the OP).

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2014, 02:26:58 pm »
Its a free country, if they want to make one they can. Good luck :)

The thread is quite interesting - you can easily pick out who have invested more in BTS or DNS. Except a handful few, most of the posts can be simplified to personal greediness (including the OP).

I actually think those who are being greedy (and thinking logically) are the ones happiest about the current expansion of our universe. Now we can diversify even further within our own ecosystem..
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 02:40:05 pm by fuzzy »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline neo1344

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2014, 06:57:52 pm »
Do we focus on BTS or NOT? Common guys !!!
Let's contribute all on bitshares, because if we divide to a couple of projects I am afraid  we will get the biggest joke in crypto-world after the "merge"!

go to Tradingview.com and try to discuss with pro traders and see with your own eye what they think about this joke,unpro dev can not decide what to do.full of idiots.

Offline ag

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2014, 08:28:57 pm »
DNS can be on bitshares chain. the problem is in the future what happens? 1 blockchain can only support so much transactions eventually has to raise tx fees. BM proposed this is when a new specialized chains will out-compete bitshares.

SO anyways, if this eventually will happen, it's not bad to start a parallel chain now. put some consideration into how 2 chains with this service can and will eventually co-exist.

Now one crucial point, this chain must not print it's own dollar. don't want it to become a bank have that competition with bitshares. so we have to resolve this. we should realize a market pegged asset, is just a convenience not 100% necessary for dns functions.

but if we want:  make support for transactions with user issued tokens. to encourage bitUSD demand: have people (gateways) take bitUSD deposits on bitshares, then issue bitUSD IOU's on DNS. And correspondingly redeem/destroy those IOU's for bitUSD. have internal market for these IOU's against DNSshares of course. it's kind of cool, if you are a gateway, you earn interest on your deposits. probably we want people with registered name on bitshares, to have that name on DNS. gateway can run with your money at anytime, but for example btc38 would be an automatically trustworthy gateway and others.


Offline amencon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2014, 12:55:57 am »
I support this initiative.  The worst that happens is that this spinoff of DNS DAC is out-competed by BTS.  If some innovation is created with this new DNS DAC and BTS copies it, then all the better.  I'd imagine many people will be invested in both anyway.

Put me on whatever list or mailings you plan if this does move forward.

Thanks.

As I see it, the value proposition can go MUCH farther.  Imagine, for instance, that a talented group of developers decide to fork DNS to make a new chain with different innovations (or to make it more friendly to a certain jurisdiction).  Those Devs essentially snapshot current ownership in the forked chain with a large %, can give themselves a small stake or allot a small % for a crowd sale to gain funding to test their metal against other chains' devs.  Those who are successful have NOW MADE A NAME for themselves to the degree where if BTS doesn't pick them up, another SuperDAC will.  If not, the task of simply building on the DNS fork (or even PTS, VOTE...etc for that matter) will likely have made them capable of building their own SuperDAC to rival others. 

Think bigger guys and girls!  This is a potential Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry!  Imagine being sharedropped on 10 different DNS forks, holding them all for 10 years and 2-3 of them ending up reaching valuations of 1+ Billion Dollars, just to be bought out by a SuperDAC (or maybe even more than 1).  Then you have made off QUITE nicely.  If this game is played right and developers know that supporting the community with significant sharedrops is a viable means by which they can earn attention and work to attain legitimacy in the industry...we have essentially made a very positive feedback loop that also protects us with the power of a diversified marketplace while protecting from corruption and also potentially making original holders very wealthy.... 

People see this as bad but I think that is just fear and impatience talking. I see this as potentially one of the best things I could ever imagine.  Sure, it MIGHT take a very small portion of the BTS valuation (initially) but it will spread the word that the bitshares ecosystem is evolving and not just settling into one static, microsoft-like existence.  Think of it as cheap advertising...

When this market can support literally hundreds of forked chains with their own special attributes (like altcoins have), we will know we have made it to where we all want this to go...the moon.  Let's consider these forks as Wormholes that force us to ask "which moon? There are sooooo many!"
I agree completely fuzz.  I was merely pointing out that the worst case scenario isn't even necessarily a bad thing.  I think there is huge potential in embracing a multiple DAC/chain strategy (and the attraction of more developer talent to DAC technology this will bring).  I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same.  I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2014, 02:15:10 am »
  I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same.  I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives.

 +5%  Exactly how I feel.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline cube

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
  • Bit by bit, we will get there!
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: bitcube
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2014, 07:07:58 am »
  I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same.  I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives.

 +5%  Exactly how I feel.

We are going to have a bigger bitshares ecosystem.  I am all the more excited and see a bright future for the bitshares world.    :)
ID: bitcube
bitcube is a dedicated witness and committe member. Please vote for bitcube.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2014, 07:22:40 am »
  I understand why BM might feel like he needs to focus his energies, but I see no reason why our community must do the same.  I personally plan to continue to support (whether financially or other) multiple future tech initiatives.

 +5%  Exactly how I feel.

We are going to have a bigger bitshares ecosystem.  I am all the more excited and see a bright future for the bitshares world.    :)

bit by bit...!
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline bitcoinerS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: Proposal: To Relaunch KeyID as new (third-party) BitShares DNS DAC
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2014, 07:30:23 am »
Checkout new BitShares DNS Dry Run 1!  :)

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10751.0
>>> approve bitcoiners