Announcing BitShares AGS & BitShares X Allocation

[toast]

Would donating from a BTC wallet like Coinbase be acceptable for getting the angelshares?

No, don't do this. You have to control the private keys for the addresses you donated from.

[bitbro]

Would donating from a BTC wallet like Coinbase be acceptable for getting the angelshares?

[slacking]

Will we be able to see live tracking of the donation pools each day until launch?

PTS pool https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw
BTC pool https://coinplorer.com/BTC/Addresses/1ANGELwQwWxMmbdaSWhWLqBEtPTkWb8uDc

[bitbro]

Will we be able to see live tracking of the donation pools each day until launch?

[Markus]

As a Keyhotee founder I would like BitShares launched right away. Right now there are only 10000 AngelShares in existence, each worth 120 PTS

[slacking]

Looking like bitcoin donation is the way to go right now.

[bytemaster]

You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings.  This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS.   You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.   

If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits.   Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits.  The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership.   In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream). 

One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion.   Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.   

I hope this helps.

This is a good deal for people who just want to hold their PTS. But for people who want to invest their PTS in Angel Shares, this is an amazing deal! The ROI for Angel Shares looks pretty good right now (about 7.76 AGS per PTS), and might be better on some days than others

HOw did you calculate 7.75 AGS per PTS?

638 PTS in the Jan 1 pool for 5000 AGS => 7.83 AGS per PTS
2 BTC in the Jan 1 pool for 5000 AGS => .0004 BTC per AGS  => 67x

Also note that if BitShares is launched in Q1 there will only be 1 million AGS vs 1.5 million PST each of which scales 50/50 so right now AGS is a great deal.

Oh, and we have some major bounty initiatives planned.  This place will be hopping with bounty activity like no place else, we will put Mastercoin to shame!  Details coming soon.

[Bitcoinfan]

You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings.  This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS.   You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.   

If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits.   Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits.  The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership.   In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream). 

One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion.   Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.   

I hope this helps.

This is a good deal for people who just want to hold their PTS. But for people who want to invest their PTS in Angel Shares, this is an amazing deal! The ROI for Angel Shares looks pretty good right now (about 7.76 AGS per PTS), and might be better on some days than others

HOw did you calculate 7.75 AGS per PTS? 

[phoenix]

You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings.  This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS.   You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.   

If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits.   Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits.  The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership.   In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream). 

One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion.   Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.   

I hope this helps.

This is a good deal for people who just want to hold their PTS. But for people who want to invest their PTS in Angel Shares, this is an amazing deal! The ROI for Angel Shares looks pretty good right now (about 7.76 AGS per PTS), and might be better on some days than others

[bytemaster]

How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?

You will simply import your PTS wallet into BitShares and other DACs and it will scan the genesis block for your balance.

How do you get this for angels shares that were obtained from bitcoins?  Will angel shares be sent to that bitcoin address?  Or do we have to import that Bitcoin wallet into Bitshares?  That sounds like its going to be a mess if we have to do that.

You would import your BTC wallet just like your PTS wallet.  If you create a dedicated BTC wallet prior to sending the funds then you will not have to expose your BTC private keys to our software.

[bytemaster]

After that is undefined but may be more than 10%.

So PTS will account for 10% or more of BitShares?
And AngelShares may account for 10% or more?
Will PTS and AGS always count for the same percentage of BitShares?

I believe the introduction of AGS is unfair to PTS early adopters.
I purchased PTS under the impression that all PTS will represent 10% of bitshares. And the remainder 90% of BitShares will be distributed to miners (through their mining) and to BitShare holders (through half of mining rewards).

Under this original agreement if PTS holders keep the BitShares they get, for the 12 years it takes to mine all BitShares, they would end up with 55% of BitShares in existence.

In a 50:50 split with AGS, PTS holders are reduced to 50% of BitShares.

If AGS gets 10% and PTS gets 10% then PTS early adopters end up with 30% of BitShares if they hold them for the 12 year period.

I hope I didn't mix up my maths, but from this it looks like the original deal (when I bought PTS) promised me a 450% growth in number of BitShares over 12 years. Now I am looking at a possible 200% growth in 12 years.

Your math is accurate but incomplete.  Lets see if I can help clear some things up while also adding important details that affect valuation increase for PTS holders.

Under the original deal, holding your BTS would have resulted in 55% after 10 years (majority of the debasement in the first year) factoring in 50/50 dividends and under AGS your cut would be 50% from day one.  If you stop your analysis here then I can see some potential for concern because all else being equal it could be viewed as a bad deal.   However, not everything else is equal.

You went from owning a share of a company (DAC) which had to pay 50% of its earnings (transaction fees) to miners to burn them up while also serving to centralize control in economies of scale to owning a share of a company (DAC) which can pay you 100% of its earnings.  This alone DOUBLES the value of the new BTS vs the old BTS.   You also went from owning 55% of a company that has $500K to grow on to owning 50% of a company with several million backing it and therefore much better adoption and support.   

If you ignore the stock-split effect of the original BTS dividend design, then what you have is a DAC that was charging you a 20% wealth tax to pay miners the first year and then taking 50% of the profits.   Now you get a DAC with no wealth tax paying you 100% of the profits.  The question becomes what kind of revenue will be generated from transaction fees because this will determine how long it takes before PTS holders under AGS surpass PTS holders under the original design in terms of percent ownership.   In terms of the value proposition you come out ahead in the first year based on the value being 2x the old value (when viewed as a revenue stream). 

One last detail is that if PTS holders contribute just 5% of their PTS to get AGS then they will have significantly increased their cut from 50% to 75% while providing $1 million worth of PTS to fund development and promotion.   Essentially, we have given PTS holders a way to repurpose their debasement due to mining toward more productive activities that increase the value of BTS and PTS.   

I hope this helps.



 

[Bitcoinfan]

How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?

You will simply import your PTS wallet into BitShares and other DACs and it will scan the genesis block for your balance.

How do you get this for angels shares that were obtained from bitcoins?  Will angel shares be sent to that bitcoin address?  Or do we have to import that Bitcoin wallet into Bitshares?  That sounds like its going to be a mess if we have to do that. 

[bytemaster]

So you raised over 100BTC worth of PTS from something that is basically free for you to do, pretty successful initiative!

It will fund a team working on keyhotee for a couple of months.  Enough to get a pretty nice user experience.     Our polish devs have been working hard on it,  unfortunately they don't work for pts.

I believed the PTS launch was more successful than expected. Thus Invictus has more money than they expected to, right?

So why the need for more funding via AngelShares? Was this the plan all along?

I dont mean to be so critical, I believe Invictus is really doing something great here.
I just dont understand why there is a need for more funding at this stage if venture capital was successfully obtained and PTS launch was such a success.

Now it looks like either the original plan was set under-budget. Or the plan was to just get some cash, see how far it goes, and then get some more.

PTS was successful but didn't actually raise any cash for Invictus because we had to mine/buy like everyone else.  The goal of PTS was to allow people to start mining BTS prior to launch and to allow the market to establish a price which it was VERY successful at doing.   PTS built the community, this forum, and generated the attention we required to move forward.   Obviously everyone here wants to see things happen faster than we could do with our budget and also has a vested interest in seeing this evolve so now we are working with everyone to grow the value of PTS.

In other words PTS was not a way to raise funds, but a give away to build a community. 

[bytemaster]

How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?

You will simply import your PTS wallet into BitShares and other DACs and it will scan the genesis block for your balance.

[fluxer555]

How will it be possible to obtain our DAC shares with only our PTS public key associated with how much we own?