Author Topic: Lets vote for lower fees!  (Read 7365 times)

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Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2015, 06:23:32 pm »
Basically there are three categories: the traders, the merchants, and "average people". The only price sensitive group out of these three are the traders, not "average people".

So far we have had 'average people' from Poland, Russia, Argentina and China (one of our biggest markets) saying that the fee is too high for them and in their opinion, average users in their market.

ElMato is also the creator of LimeWallet, a product designed to appeal to his local market and the world, he also attends local groups and does BitShares give-aways so has interacted with as many potential customers as anyone. I respect their opinions.

Anyway we agree that some form of percentage based system would ultimately be better.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 06:25:55 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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jakub

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2015, 06:27:23 pm »
Over-charging for an inferior product that doesn't work, is not an effective strategy for any new business that I am aware of.
But if the product does not work it can be even for free and still nobody will use it. That's why I think we should concentrate our efforts on making the product work and not on lowering its price. Lowering the price will not compensate people for lack of liquidity. They won't use it anyway.

Traders are complaining. It looks like we need to lower fees for orders that are cancelled/not matched.
If the traders are indeed complaining I fully agree we should lower the market order fees. We should do everything to make them happy. They are our strategic partner and without them we are nothing as we don't have a product for our end-users.

The referral programme can still be as generous with a percentage based system in fact it may be FAR more lucrative with the right pricing strategy.
The referral programme can be generous by using two sources only: inflation or transaction fees. Inflation is just another name for making BTS holders pay for BTS users. IMO this not a sustainable strategy.

Offline fav

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2015, 06:31:02 pm »
In Russia all the same. It would be difficult to average people to grasp why they would have to pay the fees.

And tell me, how many times a month do "average people" make online payments? 4? Maybe 5? Does it really matter how much you pay as long as it is in total less than a bus ticket?

The point is the fees do not matter for an average BTS user.
They matter only for heavy users and those are merchants and traders, not "average people".

When you decide your pricing strategy you need to know who your customer is. Basically there are three categories: the traders, the merchants, and "average people". The only price sensitive group out of these three are the traders, not "average people". So if you think about it, lowering the fees is a meaningless exercise that will do nothing (at this moment) but undermine our profitability.  Only if the traders start complaining it we should lower the market orders fees, but not the transaction fees for transferring money.

 +5%

jakub

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2015, 06:38:26 pm »
So far we have had 'average people' from Poland, Russia, Argentina and China (one of our biggest markets) saying that the fee is too high for them and in their opinion, average users in their market.

I can see it but I think they are wrong.

Even in the poorest countries it does not matter if you pay $0.05 or $0.20 if your total monthly payment is less than the cost of a bottle of water. It just does not matter whether you are rich or poor. In our case it's liquidity that matters, not the transaction fees.

I'll eat my words if they can prove to me that the "average people" they are talking about are going to make more than 10 payments a month in BTS.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2015, 06:50:48 pm »
The referral programme can still be as generous with a percentage based system in fact it may be FAR more lucrative with the right pricing strategy.
The referral programme can be generous by using two sources only: inflation or transaction fees. Inflation is just another name for making BTS holders pay for BTS users. IMO this not a sustainable strategy.

No I mean a percentage based system could make the referral programme far more lucrative. I hate inflation too.

For example if you have 1000 potential customers. The average customer makes 10 transfers/purchases a month.

A. 500  make 10 purchases/transfers averaging $4 or less a month and even a percentage fee system is too high for them.
B. 250  make 10 purchases/transfers averaging $10 or less a month and $0.1 is too high for them but $0.01 is OK.
C. 125  make 10 purchases/transfers averaging $25 or less a month and $0.1 is too high for them but $0.025 is OK.
D. 62.5 make 10 purchases/transfer averaging $50 a month they would pay $0.1 but with a 0.1% system are only paying $0.05
E. 62.5 make 10 purchases/transfers averaging $100 a month and $0.1 is cheap to them.

A $0.1 fee would earn merchants/referrers $125 a month but a 0.1% system with a minimum of $0.01 would make them $150 a month. 

That's just a random example to make the numbers work in my favour but the point is while lowering fees could earn you less from one group (D in the example) total profit is actually higher.

You also end up attracting far more users who will be using BTS and BitAssets which will positively affect the CAP.

Or an even simpler analysis. If 100 out of a thousand potential customers will pay a $0.1 fee but 500 out of a thousand will pay $0.05 fee, obviously charging $0.05 is optimal if your running costs in both examples are the same.

At the moment I'm worried we're not appealing to a very large portion of our potential market. So I think we have to attempt to do some analysis and address the issue.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 06:54:07 pm by Empirical1.2 »
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Offline sudo

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2015, 01:02:26 pm »
total costs of bts2/ numbers of transaction =per transaction  cost

now  total costs of bts2 is stable 

but  numbers of transaction  is very very very low
I  guess  the numbers of transaction   is less than price feed

It is totally  waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jakub

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2015, 01:11:23 pm »
total costs of bts2/ numbers of transaction =per transaction  cost

now  total costs of bts2 is stable 

but  numbers of transaction  is very very very low
I  guess  the numbers of transaction   is less than price feed

It is totally  waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@sudo, just to make a quick market research exercise please answer these two questions:
(1) roughly how many transactions in total have you personally made since BTS2 was launched?
(2) roughly how many times the following situation has happened to you: you wanted to make a transaction but ended up not doing it because you thought it was too expensive?

Offline Akado

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Re: Lets vote for lower fees!
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2015, 06:57:19 pm »
I'm perfectly fine with the transaction fees atm. People exaggerate when they mention we will pay a lot if the price shoots to a few cents. By then the fees will be already lowered.

Other path would be to use percentage based fees. Or even tiered percentage fees like most exchanges have. A tier per volume transacted.
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