Author Topic: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer  (Read 14770 times)

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Online bitcrab

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2016, 02:54:31 pm »
thanks Dan.

Offline abit

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2018, 05:44:53 pm »
Please be aware that there are still 7,072,500 BTS unclaimed in this worker. I guess it's unused? So perhaps make some good use with it, or return it to the reserve pool?
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Offline dannotestein

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2018, 02:02:57 pm »
Please be aware that there are still 7,072,500 BTS unclaimed in this worker. I guess it's unused? So perhaps make some good use with it, or return it to the reserve pool?
I'm aware of the unclaimed funds: I don't tend to forget such sums of money, especially when they've appreciated like BTS has since they were allocated. My intent for the usage of the funds remains unchanged from my previous statements about it: I'll draw upon them for work I think especially important to the future of the chain.

So far, I haven't had time to do much BitShares development work personally for a while due to commitments to other contracts, but that is changing soon. As a first step, recently I've begun reviewing the "state" of the project to determine areas where I think some work could be beneficially focused and also doing a small amount of contract work to customers interested in BitShares (the contract work was totally paid for by the customers and didn't involve changes to BitShares itself, so there was no reason to charge the maintenance funds for it). I won't be able to devote a large amount of my own time until my current commitments are completed (somewhere in next 2 to 6 months I hope), but I plan to involve some of our engineers in development work prior to that time (I introduced the guys to the concepts of UIAs, for example, yesterday).

One thing I would like to see now and would be willing to fund for a reasonable price from the allocated funds: an onchain or offchain solution to the bug where the vote counts aren't available for committee members that aren't presently elected. To me this seems like a distinct weakness in the governance system.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 02:04:49 pm by dannotestein »
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Offline Bangzi

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2018, 03:30:24 pm »

One thing I would like to see now and would be willing to fund for a reasonable price from the allocated funds: an onchain or offchain solution to the bug where the vote counts aren't available for committee members that aren't presently elected. To me this seems like a distinct weakness in the governance system.

True. Another issue is should proxy in DPOS work for 1 level or multiple levels? Please feel free to give your comment.
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/79
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 03:47:25 pm by Bangzi »
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2018, 05:13:34 pm »
I'm aware of the unclaimed funds: I don't tend to forget such sums of money, especially when they've appreciated like BTS has since they were allocated. My intent for the usage of the funds remains unchanged from my previous statements about it: I'll draw upon them for work I think especially important to the future of the chain.

... I plan to involve some of our engineers in development work prior to that time (I introduced the guys to the concepts of UIAs, for example, yesterday).

Thanks for the clarification and contributions.

Quote
One thing I would like to see now and would be willing to fund for a reasonable price from the allocated funds: an onchain or offchain solution to the bug where the vote counts aren't available for committee members that aren't presently elected. To me this seems like a distinct weakness in the governance system.

There is an github issue for this: https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/issues/987, actually I've got an idea about how to fix it just a few days before, although not yet started to code, due to priority. It's also good if someone else can get it fixed. However, IMHO, efforts related to this issue can be covered by the core dev worker if there isn't a dedicated bounty for it.

Back to the topic, 7 million BTS seems a bit too huge in comparison to such small bounties. Now we already have a core dev worker to cover the maintenance job which was intention of this worker. Since we haven't yet decided how to use this fund, given the fact that most workers on chain now are being paid via escrows, I propose that we move the remaining funds of this worker to be controlled by an escrow service (for example BBF) or merge it with the core dev worker, if we still want to use it to fund core development / maintenance. We do want experienced project manager and developers to help and contribute, not only funds. On the other hand, if we're going to use it to fund other things, which would be out of this worker's scope, IMHO it's best to re-vote.
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Offline dannotestein

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2018, 05:16:53 pm »
Another issue is should proxy in DPOS work for 1 level or multiple levels? Please feel free to give your comment.
https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/issues/79
I left my comments on the issue.
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Offline dannotestein

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2018, 05:41:43 pm »

Back to the topic, 7 million BTS seems a bit too huge in comparison to such small bounties. Now we already have a core dev worker to cover the maintenance job which was intention of this worker. Since we haven't yet decided how to use this fund, given the fact that most workers on chain now are being paid via escrows, I propose that we move the remaining funds of this worker to be controlled by an escrow service (for example BBF) or merge it with the core dev worker, if we still want to use it to fund core development / maintenance. We do want experienced project manager and developers to help and contribute, not only funds. On the other hand, if we're going to use it to fund other things, which would be out of this worker's scope, IMHO it's best to re-vote.

It's not my intent to use it for small bounties. I only mentioned that particular issue as I considered it of enough significance that I would be willing to fund it as I don't yet have time to assign someone to work on it.

The funds were originally assigned for BlockTrades to perform work it considered of sufficient importance based on my judgement. As such, I consider the funds mainly should still be allocated for such usage, unless I think there's a case where I decide someone can do something of high importance cheaper/easier.

I will not abuse the trust the original voters placed in my judgement by mis-using the funds. But IMO the funds should not be placed in someone else's control unless I make that decision without external pressure. And I would generally feel uncomfortable doing even that, because if I made the wrong decision, the funds could be abused and I would no longer be able to prevent it, so it would have to be someone I trusted at a level that I trust only a few people in this world. I hope you can understand my position on this.

If you feel that more funds need to be allocated to development at the current time, I suggest you create additional worker proposals and seek approval for the same. The great thing about BitShares is we do have an awesome system for polling the will of the holders, even if it has some flaws.
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2018, 07:54:32 am »
Quote
It is ready for grading, but later additions that are less integral to the lore correctness of this proposal are planned.

I don't understand what you are saying here, could you please elaborate?

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2018, 12:01:17 pm »
Quote
It is ready for grading, but later additions that are less integral to the lore correctness of this proposal are planned.

I don't understand what you are saying here, could you please elaborate?

It's a spam bot. I've been sending Fav PM's on Telegram but he has not removed it yet. :D
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2018, 12:22:46 pm »
Quote
It is ready for grading, but later additions that are less integral to the lore correctness of this proposal are planned.

I don't understand what you are saying here, could you please elaborate?

It's a spam bot. I've been sending Fav PM's on Telegram but he has not removed it yet. :D

use the report link please
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #115 on: July 14, 2018, 12:46:47 pm »
Quote
It is ready for grading, but later additions that are less integral to the lore correctness of this proposal are planned.

I don't understand what you are saying here, could you please elaborate?

It's a spam bot. I've been sending Fav PM's on Telegram but he has not removed it yet. :D

use the report link please

Hahaha, ok i'll raise blind :)

Done.
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #116 on: December 21, 2019, 05:09:57 am »
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The funds were originally assigned for BlockTrades to perform work it considered of sufficient importance based on my judgement. As such, I consider the funds mainly should still be allocated for such usage, unless I think there's a case where I decide someone can do something of high importance cheaper/easier.

What i concern is the fouds if it still belong to BTS community?

If the BTS community have the power to take back it? as the mechanism of the worker pay will need to redesign.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 05:19:15 am by binggo »

Offline dannotestein

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #117 on: December 21, 2019, 07:05:34 am »
Quote
The funds were originally assigned for BlockTrades to perform work it considered of sufficient importance based on my judgement. As such, I consider the funds mainly should still be allocated for such usage, unless I think there's a case where I decide someone can do something of high importance cheaper/easier.

What i concern is the fouds if it still belong to BTS community?

If the BTS community have the power to take back it? as the mechanism of the worker pay will need to redesign.
The funds remain under control of BlockTrades and are still being retained for emergency use only. I have not sold them and will not sell them except I think it is required for the purpose these funds were originally allocated for. So, for now they are effectively "dead coins" unless there is a Bitshares emergency that requires them to be spent. They are certainly having no impact on the price of BTS.

The BTS community has the power to take it back in the same way it can take back any funds: it can fork the chain. But it would be a stupid reason to fork the chain, IMO.

I have no idea what you mean by "the mechanism of the work pay will need to redesign". What do you want to be redesigned? Do you mean that you want to be able to take back vested funds from a worker without a fork? And if so, why? Because you are unhappy that I sold my company's BTS? This has nothing to do with the funds for the worker. I would never sell off these funds except for the purpose I originally committed them to. This can easily be seen when you consider that I've held these funds even when bts was worth 0.40 USD and also that I still haven't sold them, despite selling all my company's BTS.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 07:11:26 am by dannotestein »
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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2019, 08:44:24 am »
Quote
The BTS community has the power to take it back in the same way it can take back any funds: it can fork the chain. But it would be a stupid reason to fork the chain, IMO.

I think i have said very clearly, and you give this answer?

Quote
We would make a report once per month on what has been done during that period.

So what is "that period"?

Quote
I have no idea what you mean by "the mechanism of the work pay will need to redesign". What do you want to be redesigned? Do you mean that you want to be able to take back vested funds from a worker without a fork? And if so, why? Because you are unhappy that I sold my company's BTS? This has nothing to do with the funds for the worker. I would never sell off these funds except for the purpose I originally committed them to. This can easily be seen when you consider that I've held these funds even when bts was worth 0.40 USD and also that I still haven't sold them, despite selling all my company's BTS.

I didn't understand how and why you got such conclusion? and become so angry and emotional? just as i show the data of blockchain?

Serious talk: i didn't care about you sold or not sold, i just show the data, i also show the data of others big sell.

"the mechanism of the work pay will need to redesign". is mean:
Someone did a worker and finished, then we will pay or pay it with the milestone, the whole funds will not controled by the worker, will controled by the committee/wittness with a multi-signature account, and will have the examiner to check the result of worker.

------------------
So let's focus the topic:

if this worker has been out of date(or not) and didn't have any actives for such a long time, the rest funds should burn to the reserve pool, the worker have the obligation to do that.
We had lost many funds like this way.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 08:47:40 am by binggo »

Offline dannotestein

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Re: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer
« Reply #119 on: December 21, 2019, 10:59:19 am »
Quote
The BTS community has the power to take it back in the same way it can take back any funds: it can fork the chain. But it would be a stupid reason to fork the chain, IMO.

I think i have said very clearly, and you give this answer?

Quote
We would make a report once per month on what has been done during that period.

So what is "that period"?

Quote
I have no idea what you mean by "the mechanism of the work pay will need to redesign". What do you want to be redesigned? Do you mean that you want to be able to take back vested funds from a worker without a fork? And if so, why? Because you are unhappy that I sold my company's BTS? This has nothing to do with the funds for the worker. I would never sell off these funds except for the purpose I originally committed them to. This can easily be seen when you consider that I've held these funds even when bts was worth 0.40 USD and also that I still haven't sold them, despite selling all my company's BTS.

I didn't understand how and why you got such conclusion? and become so angry and emotional? just as i show the data of blockchain?

Serious talk: i didn't care about you sold or not sold, i just show the data, i also show the data of others big sell.

"the mechanism of the work pay will need to redesign". is mean:
Someone did a worker and finished, then we will pay or pay it with the milestone, the whole funds will not controled by the worker, will controled by the committee/wittness with a multi-signature account, and will have the examiner to check the result of worker.

------------------
So let's focus the topic:

if this worker has been out of date(or not) and didn't have any actives for such a long time, the rest funds should burn to the reserve pool, the worker have the obligation to do that.
We had lost many funds like this way.
I'm actually not angry, I'm only trying to understand what problem you think exists and what you want to do to fix it. I'm still not sure, but I think you think that because we haven't done anything in a long time, or spent the money, that there is some problem.

So let me explain to you what the money was for: it was money that was to be spent conditionally, only if there was a problem that needed fixing. For a long time, I saw no such problem, so I simply kept the money unspent. Later, a core dev team emerged and began to work on new things and also make some fixes. So, with them around, I didn't see any need to spend the money. Instead I decided to hold it in case they lost their funding and them some problem arose. This is still my intent.

You also say "we had lost many funds this way". I have no idea what you meant by this, you need to be more specific about such instances. I understand that English is not your first language, but you need to say more when you make such statements. Without more information, I can only guess what you talk about.

Anyways, in the case of the funds I hold, nothing has been lost: if I don't spend it, it's very similar to if it's in the reserve pool. The big difference is that if I think it needs to be spent, I can make the decision without consent of current big voters (I got the consent from old big voters). You think I have the obligation to burn the funds, but I disagree. I think I have the obligation I took on when I made the proposal: to spend the funds if necessary to save the chain if some serious problem arises and otherwise to leave the funds alone. This is a safety net for the chain, and I think it's a good one.

Maybe you don't like this. But then, I don't like many decisions of the current big voters much either. But we both must abide by the rules of the blockchain. You can certainly argue for changing them, but I find your argument, to the extent I am able to understand it, very unpersuasive. If you want to make changes to the blockchain rules, there are much more serious issues to address than this, in my opinion. I guarantee you this money you're so worried about has had no impact on the price of BitShares, unlike the voting problems that BitShares is having which has damaged the price so much.
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