Author Topic: [Worker Proposal] Blockchain maintenance developer  (Read 45869 times)

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Offline abit

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Here I quoted some discussions on Telegram channels which happened yesterday:
Quote
(someone)   EMERGENCY FIX! ALL WITNESSES PLEASE UPGRADE TO LATEST bitshares BRANCH ASAP!

(witness1)   building now
(witness2)   Building
(witness3)   Building
(witness4)   I'll be building in a few minutes
(witness5)  building
...
...
...
(someone)
GUYS
so sorry... BM just told me that this is a false alarm..

(someone)
the one liner change is .... i am not sure if the witnesses understand the code involved since they are not a dev. nevertheless, it is important to verify before broadcasting to the rest which may cause an unnecessary alarm.

(Dan Notestein)
in this case, Eric and I took a look at the line in question and realized it didn't do anything, then contacted BM (the author) to see if he agreed (it didn't do anything cause the same check was already included about 10 lines up). He agreed and the update was cancelled.
So there is review of the changes, but it should have had more review before such a hard fork announcement was made, IMO.

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Offline xeroc

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xeroc, I appreciate  your work, you give me the most help.
I'll be glad to approve to pay you from the committee's balance.
but not from dilution. I have said, dilution 1 USD, share holders lost 10 USD.

you are the important person as I know, because your work support the business.

at the same time, I am worriy about we don't have enough money to pay for you,
so I'm glad to request a parttime job, I wish you can earn more money from other rich company.

another way is I wish promise pay you  with the future income, if you are not lack of money for basic life now.
Thanks for the kind words .. I do understand the issue we are having here .. please take a look at the above proposal. It is of interest to me since I need to renew my worker rather soonish

Offline xeroc

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The talk of dilution only has meaning when the reserve pool isn't considered. Am I wrong in that no BTS is every created or destroyed only accessible or not?
Correct .. kind of:
- If you take the reserves into the "available supply", then there is no "dilution"
- If you do not take it into "available supply", then there is dilution

We could have another setup namely those that feel ok with it can ask for a USD/€ amount instead of BTS. The worker itself is owned by a multisig account (potentially committee, but possibly also someone else). Hence the "dilution" is payed into a multisig account that has promised to pay $/€ to the real "worker" (e.g. me or dannotestein). Now, the interesting part would be, if you ask for a vesting period of say 4 months, then the multisig account can maybe buy bitUSD/bitEUR cheaper in the those 4 months and have a "reserver" from what has been payed out by the network.. those funds could be burned or used to provide liquidity (which they are anyway if they want to buy bitUSD)
@alt .. how about that?
@dannotestein would you be ok with a deal like that since it bears the "risk" of getting less out of the worker than what you asked for if BTS goes even lower.
Ask for me, I can think of doing it that way ..

Quote
Assuming this is all correct then what danotestein is asking for (~$200/day at current prices for three+ resources) is a good deal.
Agreed.

Offline Riverhead


If we look at the total number of BTS in the pool, in circulation, in reserve accounts, etc. there is no dilution. All that can happen is shifting BTS from one bucket to another. It would be best to value your BTS taking all in existence into consideration. Once the reserve pool runs out then we're really in a pickle. So the goal has to be burn the funds we have to make the product profitable enough to rebuild the pool.

The talk of dilution only has meaning when the reserve pool isn't considered. Am I wrong in that no BTS is every created or destroyed only accessible or not?

Assuming this is all correct then what danotestein is asking for (~$200/day at current prices for three+ resources) is a good deal.

Offline alt

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another way is I wish promise pay you  with the future income, if you are not lack of money for basic life now.
BTS paid from the reserve pool IS the future income indeed. All fees go to the reserve pool currently.
I say pay from the future income means in the future,when the network earned a cent, we can pay a cent.

Offline abit

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another way is I wish promise pay you  with the future income, if you are not lack of money for basic life now.
BTS paid from the reserve pool IS the future income indeed. All fees go to the reserve pool currently.

If we can gain 400K BTS per day from fees, there won't be "dilution".

On contrast, balance on committee-account is "operating capital", not income.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 12:33:57 pm by abit »
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Offline abit

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That is a reasonable price for Bitshares to remain competitive.

Too bad there weren't any Chinese devs willing to step up to bat ?  What are the issues?

This is all a side effect of closing the source code off, getting away from any talk of a 'toolkit', etc. Hiring any developer now will require a learning curve, so the ~$70 an hour is likely a good deal ...

I see some guys seeming to get pissed off. I wouldn't let pride or jealousy force your decisions.

PS BitShares is always good for entertainment.
I'm a Chinese developer. I've been doing some maintenance work for a while.. I do want to get paid as well..
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Offline alt

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xeroc, I appreciate  your work, you give me the most help.
I'll be glad to approve to pay you from the committee's balance.
but not from dilution. I have said, dilution 1 USD, share holders lost 10 USD.

you are the important person as I know, because your work support the business.

at the same time, I am worriy about we don't have enough money to pay for you,
so I'm glad to request a parttime job, I wish you can earn more money from other rich company.

another way is I wish promise pay you  with the future income, if you are not lack of money for basic life now.

Offline xeroc

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many people are  doing their job to make BTS more valuable
transwiser, blocktrade, metaexchange, ccedk.... maybe dacx
they build business for BTS, they don't need dilution,
we should wait for these business development, we need more business, more users.

do you play game starcraft?
we spent too much energy to upgrade our technolgy , but we don't produce solders, we don't open new miners,
we'll upgrade technology until we spent our last cent.
So .. how do you think I can make money out of giving everyone support and writing documentation as well as the python library and others?
If you want me to ask fo $5 per answered support issue I'll gladly take it instead of running a worker.

For me, a worker is essential to keep my work here going. If it wasn't for those funds, I would need to get a regular job, which is certainly not a problem, and I would get payed WAY MORE money than it get here. If coming back and I will have to spend 40h+ at that job. The consequence is that I cannot contribute anymore to this community but only do paid jobs for businesses to profit and not for BitShares to profit from.

Offline alt

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many people are  doing their job to make BTS more valuable
transwiser, blocktrade, metaexchange, ccedk.... maybe dacx
they build business for BTS, they don't need dilution,
we should wait for these business development, we need more business, more users.

do you play game starcraft?
we spent too much energy to upgrade our technolgy , but we don't produce solders, we don't open new miners,
we'll upgrade technology until we spent our last cent.

jakub

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I have some questions, who can tell me?

1. we pay workers for USD, do you have different budget when the price changed?
     do you still dilution 10K USD per month for every worker even the price down to 0.0001 USD/BTS? that's 100M BTS/month.
2. what's the plan after all 3.7 billion have dilluted?
3. workers ask for a fair payment, should all others ask too? of course not everybody's worker will success, then their choise is leave BTS, do nothing for BTS if they can't get the payment. so here we are, we do everything only for money. I have no  interesting for such a community.
dilution until  the market cap to 0, go on.

I support you developer's work, but I will against all dilution workesrs at such price, to protect my BTS not go to zero.
please set "baozi" as your proxy if you against dilution.

Dilution is nothing bad if it serves a good purpose.
In our case the purpose is this: to transfer some value from shareholders who do nothing to shareholders who do something useful for the company.

This way the company grows and each share rises in value, which should (if the work is truly useful) easily offset its drop in value due to dilution.

What you propose, alt, is stagnation, waiting for some kind of miracle that would make the world realize how valuable BitShares is.
Or you count on people working for you for free. Which is equally delusional.

Offline xeroc

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Do you really think it's a fair deal for you?
If so, I'd like to set up a company with you.
I am in as well .. I can even dedicate a distinct mail address for the partnership: noreply@bitshares.eu

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haha,bitshares is a charity founded by the poor shareholder who keep dulition themselves until all bankrupt just to feed some “ever un-application ”developer. :)

Let's assume you and I have set up a company: you have 50% of shares and I have 50% of shares so we participate in the company's profits on an equal footing.
- You work several hours a day to expand the company, build a better product and acquire more customers.
- I do nothing, just sit and watch you doing the work. Occasionally I might comment on something and offer my advice.

Do you really think it's a fair deal for you?
If so, I'd like to set up a company with you.

Offline freedom

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I have some questions, who can tell me?

1. we pay workers for USD, do you have different budget when the price changed?
     do you still dilution 10K USD per month for every worker even the price down to 0.0001 USD/BTS? that's 100M BTS/month.
2. what's the plan after all 3.7 billion have dilluted?
3. workers ask for a fair payment, should all others ask too? of course not everybody's worker will success, then their choise is leave BTS, do nothing for BTS if they can't get the payment. so here we are, we do everything only for money. I have no  interesting for such a community.
dilution until  the market cap to 0, go on.

I support you developer's work, but I will against all dilution workesrs at such price, to protect my BTS not go to zero.
please set "baozi" as your proxy if you against dilution.
+5% +5% +5%

Offline gamey

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That is a reasonable price for Bitshares to remain competitive.

Too bad there weren't any Chinese devs willing to step up to bat ?  What are the issues?

This is all a side effect of closing the source code off, getting away from any talk of a 'toolkit', etc. Hiring any developer now will require a learning curve, so the ~$70 an hour is likely a good deal ...

I see some guys seeming to get pissed off. I wouldn't let pride or jealousy force your decisions.

PS BitShares is always good for entertainment.
I speak for myself and only myself.