@bitcrab

in BTS2.0 one of committee's tasks is to define some business parameters, including transaction and trading fees. now the argue on fee has lasted for long time, why not get a conclusion via a vote by committee?

I understand the referral businesses need to keep a high fee. however these merchants are not the only BTS relevant part that need to be cared, and I am not sure what kind of success they can get, but what I can feel everyday is that the China community stop growing, and even begin to shrink, one of the main factors is the high fee. surely traders, market makers and common users need lowering fee, their benefits must also be considered.

then why don't we let the committee do something and reach a conclusion that can balance all sides?

clayop has draft a proposal 1.10.13, its content is to decrease the transfer fee from 40 BTS to 9 BTS, however seems referrals are strongly against this proposal.

in my view, if you have some opinion to a proposal, you should become an active committee member or find one committee member that can represent you and set him/her as your proxy. and let the votes tell the majority's opinion.

we need more active committee members to fill the slots, and these committee members should represent different parties, please take action, if you need to add you shares to some opinion.

someone defined what clayop did recently as "craziness", said this will break up the community. but behind clayop and I is a big community. clayop just expressed the common opinion of this community.

I understand sometimes we need compromise in committee game, committee members need to totally understand the BTS business and the road map and then vote wisely.

I know that many referral businessmen are against proposal 1.10.13, ok if you think 9 BTS is too low, how about 20 BTS, if you are still not satisfied, how about 30 BTS?

actually clayop and I are prepared to draft an alternative proposal, let's call it "proposal B", its content is to decrease the transfer fee to 30 BTS.

maybe someone will say, 30 and 40 has no big difference, is it really necessary to do such a change?

I say yes, we need to give the people some hope, to convince them their benefits are not ignored, and the committee can really decide something. and BTS is not centrally controlled.

and we can give referral businesses several months to grow up, and then discuss and decide what's the next direction to go, either increasing fee or decreasing fee is ok, if the majority agree.

is this OK?

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle, but that it's premature to be deciding on changes to the fee structure until a more robust conversation develops among those stakeholders who would be affected one way or another.

In a sense, that conversation will only be possible once a relative majority of committee members are actively representing community and business interests.

If the 30 people who voted yes in this poll want to show up and have a town-hall style discussion on the matter, I think that would be a pretty enlightening event.  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19948.0.html  I imagine it's precisely the sort of thing a town hall is for.  The community chooses topics for discussion and debate, and every party has a chance for his or her voice to be heard.  Each merchant, developer, trader, marketer, and so on, that wants to speak at the town hall event, can have their say.  Those who wish to submit written statements can have it read by the moderator... If we want there could be a poll before and after the town hall to see which way opinion went after the discussion.  Otherwise, of course ultimately voting itself will decide.

Just my 40 BTS on the matter.

edit:  to both cube and clayop above

agree, we need to make the committee infrastructure effective to decide change problem.

if the businesses that benefit from referral program and high fees are so important, please select a representative(maybe Ronny Boesing?) to become an active committee member,   and then the topic can be discussed and finally voted under the committee infrastructure. it can be a real town hall.

surely we need committee members that represent different parties, we need the final decision made by committee make a good balance and be accepted by all.

Quote from: bitcrab on November 13, 2015, 01:47:40 pm

Quote from: iHashFury on November 13, 2015, 01:35:45 pm

Quote from: iHashFury on October 23, 2015, 11:19:33 am

Do we have stable on/off ramps for CNY, USD and EUR?

I buy a lot of products from China and sell them in the EU. I would like to pay in CNY via bitshares and have my suppliers transfer bitCNY directly to their Chinese bank.

I would also like direct EUR to bitEUR all on the GUI.

So could we give the fees argument a rest and work on simple (in wallet) on/off ramps

  Awesome - I can apply this to my business and pay for products 

nice to hear this,  btw can you  tell me your normal pay amount ? 

I'm checking what suppliers  use alipay and asking some to try this service so I can pay in RMB.

I hope to test your service with orders of around ¥6500 . I will be very happy to leave paypal behind!

as a pegged asset BitCNY are always in shortage to fulfill the requirement, in this case, you can use  BOTSCNY to finish the payment, same process.

transwiser is now integrated at the dacplay webwallet,below is the UI:

in deposit pop window, user can click the link or scan the QR to the webpage in weidian.com to buy BitCNY,  the page is in chinese, and you can pay when you have an alipay account or a CNY bank account.



withdraw is a little easier, but you also need an alipay account, input the withdraw amount and your alipay account and click "withdraw", your BitCNY will be sent accordingly and you will receive CNY in your alipay account.



thanks for boombastic to develop this, he will submit the pull request later, hope everyone enjoy this.

Quote from: yvv on November 11, 2015, 12:04:22 am

Quote from: Akado on November 10, 2015, 11:35:17 pm

What I think is people need to be able to do something with their money in 2.0 They can keep their money safe, ok, that's good, but what else?

What people need the most is an easy way of bringing fiat money into/out of bitshares. Right now, being in US and having wages payed in USD, the only way to bring money into bitshares is to buy bitcoins first through coinbase, or bitcoin ATM, or some other shitty way, because there is no good and reliable way to do this. Then you need to exchange your bitcoins to bitashares assets through another centralized exchange on a market with almost no liquidity. At each stage you suffer fees and slippage and waste your time. This is absolutely not ok.

If you want to bring money into Bitshares bring value into the tokens and they'll be worth more. You don't actually need to buy the tokens for them to acquire more value.  Let Bitcoin be the token people buy with cash, but then you have Safecoin, you have Storj, you have Ether, and a bunch of tokens which can be backed by apps or by resources, so you don't even need to do anything other than earn them directly.

Of course having money go in and out in USD is convenient but it's not necessary, it's just convenient. Not every exchange has USD. In fact I would think you should look more to China and Europe than to focusing on USD. People in the USA don't seem interested in buying altcoins or Bitcoin right now.

this not only relate to  "buying altcoins with USD", but also more, if BitUSD<->USD conversion is easy, then a USD<->CNY international remittance will be also easy. and this make big sense.

I remember limewallet has planned to do this, seems no update from them for long?

根据钱包帮助以及帖子https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19102.msg251720.html#msg251720 整理。

几个术语：

settlement price: 即喂价，由见证人提供的资产价格
maintenance collateral ratio (MCR): 最低抵押率
maximum short squeeze ratio (MSQR): 轧空比率
short squeeze protection (SQP): 轧空保护价
call price (CP): 平仓价

SQP        = settlement price / MSQR
call price = DEBT / COLLATERAL * MCR

settlement price, MSQR, MCR都由见证人提供。


下面根据一个例子具体解释一下规则。
这是一个用户的美元仓位，当前MSQR = 1.1, MCR = 1.75.

call price 只跟用户自身的仓位情况有关，与喂价和市场价格无关，当前call price  = 11600/9203191.76 *1.75 = 0.00220576
当前喂价settlement price = 0.00308922
SQP(margin call price) = 0.00308922/1.1 = 0.00280839
以上价格均为USD/BTS



强平的触发条件是：市场的最高价格买单价格高于SQP,但低于call price.

要此条件实现，首先是SQP要跌到call price以下，也就是说喂价(Feed Price/Settlement Price)要跌到call price*1.1之下.

就本例而言，当喂价跌到0.00220576*1.1 = 0.00242634之下, 秃鹫就可以出动捡尸体吃了，当然，买单要满足前述的条件。而仓位的持有者需要追加保证金以逃离鹫口。

由于SQP引起社区广泛反对，下一步BM会将其剔除，规则改为直接以喂价降到call price以下为强平触发条件：

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19735.msg253383.html#msg253383

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1216版本更新：
触发条件变为当喂价跌到平仓价时触发平仓，SQP依然有作用，SQP是价格墙，是爆仓的抵押品挂单卖出的最低价格。
参见：https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19735.30.html