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Messages - noisy

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General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: March 10, 2016, 11:53:33 pm »

General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: March 10, 2016, 09:01:41 pm »
How secure is Poloniex?  They have a lot of BTC and BTS there, would be a shame if something happened...


I know that you don't chat much... or at all, but in day like this, please join our slack :)

You might be a 100th member on our brand new slack :) - :)

Technical Support / Usability Testing
« on: March 06, 2016, 09:11:51 pm »
I have created a short video with announcement, that I would like to find some people who could help me perform some Usability Tests of Bitshares... and in return I have offered exactly the same... that I can test other projects, and be recorded :)

If you have account on reddit, please upvote this thread:

I created this thread on forum, because I would like to post here all tests which I will perform.

I hope, that will help us design better Bitshares User Experience :)

Instead that poeple can send 0.00001 bts with ads in memos.

Actually, that will no be so bad :P But then at some point I would probably need some tool to filter received transactions and hide those bellow some amount.

Imagine that I have a lot of BTS on my account. That will give me a possibility to send a lot of transaction without any costs when abit's code will be deployed. How I can use this to do wrong things?

I can issue some asset, like NO.DILUTION or SIDECHAINS.YES or ONLY.DASH, and send some amount to every user in the network. I could then write some information in description of the coin... having hope, that someone will read it.... and I think some would read that.

After some time we can have tons of scam assets. People will be annoyed that they wallet looks like garbage.

I think Rate Limited Free Transactions will be one of the best feature of Bitshares, but we have to make sure, that they will not be used agains a network or their users.

Proposition of solution?

Maybe we should have a reputation system for all assets? All users in wallet settings could have set default value below which coins will be ignored (I mean, will not be displayed).

Of course users should be able manually override that he trust specific asset even if its reputation is below his setting for "Display assets with reputation greater than".

Maybe there are simpler ways of preventing this kind of spam attack. What are your ideas?

General Discussion / Re: You are not allowed to work
« on: March 05, 2016, 04:13:01 pm »
I don't want to be impolite, but did you measured how good your strategy with flyers is?

If I were you, I would put a uniqe link to your website generated on a service like which could redirect user to your website, and the same time measure a statistics for you. Then you will know how good this strategy is.

I hope, that concept of sidechain already took your attention. It seems that there are numerous of ways to implement that, but none of them is significantly better than other. I would like to introduce my idea of sidechain implementation. I am sure that it is not perfect. To be honest I will be surprised if nobody be able find a "no go" security reason for this approach because I am not an expert.

Nevertheless, I decided to spent some time to describe my idea in details. Maybe this will build some new perspective and will help figure out even better solution.


There is a reason why I really like the term "Rate limited Free Transactions" and the reason is that it contains only very simple words. As you have probably noticed ;) I am not a English native speaker. That gives me additional perspective, which I believe I share with most people on the world for which English is not a native language.

There is a great website where you can check the rank of English words based on the frequency in which they are appear in a real language.

For example words from "Proof of Work" have ranks:

Proof - 3435

of - 2

Work - 103

So I consider term "Proof of Work" as quite simple.

What about "Rate Limited Free Transactions"?

Rate - 500
Limited - 984
Free - 449
Transactions - 4094

So... the worst rank in that case has a word "Transactions", which I think we cannot avoid to properly describe our feature. Besides "Transactions" worst rank is only 984.

What about "Transactions for shareholders"
Transactions - 4094
for - 12
shareholders - 3101

As you can see, shareholder is not a not very commonly use words. Besides... term "shareholders" is not very commonly used in cryptocurrency world. The reason for that is... because most of the world do not think about Bitcoin as a company. Of course Bitshares introduced DAC concept, but still it is not commonly used term.

How about Zero fee transactions?

In that case rank is:
Zero - 3895
Fee - 3251
Transactions - 4094

But the whole problem with that term is... that in my opinion it says nothing that you have to do something to have a possibility to make a free transactions (you have to have a stake)... or it not warns you that you that there is some limit for performing free transactions.

Perhaps something like "stake-weighted free transactions" would be more easily understood by most people.

This term is great in a describing how this actually is implemented. But in my opinion it is too technical.

Stake - 4107
weighted - 1227
Free - 449
Transactions - 4094

and... I have no information about conjunctions of words "stake-weighted"

And.. in my opinion stake-weighted term stands to close to mathematical concept of "weighted arithmetic mean"... which I guess a lot of people heard of in school, but I think it was not the favourite thing on math lessons in school for most of the world ;)

In summary:

"Rate Limited Free Transactions" for sure is not the best, but in my opinion it says a lot in a very simple way.

FYI: have now proper information about Bitshares :)

My impression is I saw person A say [this is the problem I see] responded with [no everything is fine] and person B says [this is hard and inconsistent] responded with [were not perfect but getting better].

That doesn't seem like feedback is being listened to, that seems like hand waving and people just walk away.

if you are referring to my answer on reddit... then you are absolutely right. I should handle this differently. Actually I deleted my old response and wrote a new one. Sorry for that and thank you that you remind me... that we should take care about quality everywhere.


And... here we have just yet another example:

people want to have simplicity first! MVP!

What Bitshares is?

The simplest answer: Decentralized Exchange.

This is strong, simple, and... anyone from cryptocurrency world understand words like "decentralized" and "exchange". Everyone can pitch Bitshares with simple single sentence:

"Never Ever.... MtGox"

Bitshares is aiming to solve the real problem... and you have to remember that resolving a problem - a fear of loosing money on centralized exchange - is the easiest way to convinced someone to try a "solution for a problem".

So... where is the problem?

Bitshares NEVER had an MVP version.

You might be surprised, by the definition what a MVP actually is, because you actually do not now, I am sure about that. I thought that I knew a definition... but I had to run my own starup and lost all my saving and funding to really understand what a MVP is.

"Minimum Viable Product" is not an alpha or beta version which has "all cool features" which are going to be LE-GEN-DA-RY.


- Predition Market
- Bond Market
- Lending
- etc...

and all that staff should never be developed before a completed MVP version.

So what a MVP actually is?

This is that 20% of product, which brings 80% of users and income. But this is not enough. MVP is the foundations for further development.

What are the most two important properties of foundation? Stability and Easy of use.

Then you have to ask, do we actually have any of that properties? Sadly, no. At least not yet.

Let's start from the beggining:

Easy of Use

What the bitshares is? Decentralize Exchange.

When I want to use an exchange, the first thing is: I have to deposit some funds.

Question number one:
How can I do that? I have some bitcoins and some dollars.

Current sad answer:
you have to send BTC... and then you will get some OPEN.BTC or META.BTC... What the heck is OPEN.BTC or META.BTC? How it is different from BTC. Why I cannot just deposit a bitcoin and get an normal BTC?

If you want to deposit USD... exactly the same happen. What the heck is OPEN.USD?

Another bad answer is.... you have to buy BTS fist on another exchange, to issue some BTC by borrowing. What that mean? What that issueing is? Why I have to borrow anything? Wait a minute... this BTC which I wanted to buy is not a real BTC? What a SCAM!!!

That is the reason why we actually need a Sidechain. Not because it will be fancy.. etc... but because then we will have real BTC... no more confusion!

BTW.. Do we even measuring what is our "sign up"/"first deposit" ratio? How many of 100 new users actually deposit anything? On which page they decided to leave an exchange? Even small startups use some tools like Google Analitics to analyse that. How we can improve something what we do not know how bad it is?


Today I have pitched one more time one of the most important player on the Polish CryptoCurrency market - InPay. To give you a little bit more context... this is the first and only company in Poland, which got individual TAX interpretation from Nationall Tax Office, that in InPay's case mean.. bitcoin can be treated as currency. Every other Polish cryptocurrency company... are actually registered abroad, to avoid not clear TAX interpretation.

Every serious IT project know... that if you want to have small amount of bugs you should test you project regularly and offten. Right now none of bitshares/CNX repository do have integrated automated runner of unittests. Unittests should be run after each commit.

There are some good sings.. that we actually started to tests things before a release... I mean Stealth Feature. But that would not be possible without a public testnet... which was not present till January!

But testing features just before a release is actually too late! There should be no possibility to merge anything to main branch without Pull Request. Each Pull Request should get a Code Review and confirmation that manual "Quality Assurance" were performed on test net without any problems.


Let's build first Stable Decentralized Exchange and Stable and Easy to Use Wallet.

Bitshares has no identity crisis.. Bitshares is a Decentralize Exchange.

One thing though.  How does this message remove/reduce the fear/perception that this is not a scam/ponzi when "most users' do not pay fees?

This is very good question. Personally I think that the fear of scam/ponzi can have mostly... very technical people - early adopters. Why? Because they already know a lot, to be almost sure, that all coins which already had free transactions are long dead, and was created only as SCAMcoins.

However I hope, that those technical people should be encouraged enough by 2nd part of the term - "Rate limited free transactions", to be curious enough to spent some time to learn what actually mean "Rate limited free transactions".

But this is mostly my wish-thinking... I am not sure whether people actually can think in that way.

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