Author Topic: Business development delegate  (Read 9104 times)

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Tuck Fheman

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2015, 10:08:30 pm »

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2015, 11:04:14 pm »
Great example of the buddy system (two individuals doing one delegate) working as it should! Thanks Thom!

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2015, 11:20:00 pm »
Thank you Jonathon, that's very generous of you to offer.

I have all the info required to restore the delegate operation on a new VPS, but the question is, is that the correct course of action?

verbaltech was a 100% business development delegate. I was getting a 15% fee to support the technical work and gentso got 85%

I would certainly be willing to send the 85% somewhere else, if that is what the community wants to do. Although it wasn't much due to the low marketcap, I was very grateful to have that source of funds coming in. My computer services business is my only other source of income, and in a town of only 300 people it doesn't always bring in enough to pay the bills.

If the community is willing to support my role as a witness and have me redirect the delegate fees elsewhere I have the required account keys.

Gentso was planning on sending me a USB stick that I was going to put all of the delegate info on and send it back to him. He never followed through however. So I am the person with all the necessary info to restore delegate operation.

I am not clear DSN what exactly you were disagreeing with about lib_jay's post. As far as I'm concerned delegate.verbaltech is done, unless the community wants to keep me in place as a witness and have me direct the funds elsewhere. It should be up to the community.

Thom,  I would be in favor of verbaltech redirecting 38% of the fund to 38MartinPtswarrior.  It would be a trial run for his delegate, and if we don't like how he handles the funds then we can redirect elsewhere.  Verbaltech could potentially be an "incubator" for delegates to show what they are made of prior to getting voted in.

Offline puppies

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2015, 03:54:43 am »
Thank you Jonathon, that's very generous of you to offer.

I have all the info required to restore the delegate operation on a new VPS, but the question is, is that the correct course of action?

verbaltech was a 100% business development delegate. I was getting a 15% fee to support the technical work and gentso got 85%

I would certainly be willing to send the 85% somewhere else, if that is what the community wants to do. Although it wasn't much due to the low marketcap, I was very grateful to have that source of funds coming in. My computer services business is my only other source of income, and in a town of only 300 people it doesn't always bring in enough to pay the bills.

If the community is willing to support my role as a witness and have me redirect the delegate fees elsewhere I have the required account keys.

Gentso was planning on sending me a USB stick that I was going to put all of the delegate info on and send it back to him. He never followed through however. So I am the person with all the necessary info to restore delegate operation.

I am not clear DSN what exactly you were disagreeing with about lib_jay's post. As far as I'm concerned delegate.verbaltech is done, unless the community wants to keep me in place as a witness and have me direct the funds elsewhere. It should be up to the community.

Thom,  I would be in favor of verbaltech redirecting 38% of the fund to 38MartinPtswarrior.  It would be a trial run for his delegate, and if we don't like how he handles the funds then we can redirect elsewhere.  Verbaltech could potentially be an "incubator" for delegates to show what they are made of prior to getting voted in.

I second funding 38ptswarrior.
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Offline cass

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2015, 10:23:58 am »
Thank you Jonathon, that's very generous of you to offer.

I have all the info required to restore the delegate operation on a new VPS, but the question is, is that the correct course of action?

verbaltech was a 100% business development delegate. I was getting a 15% fee to support the technical work and gentso got 85%

I would certainly be willing to send the 85% somewhere else, if that is what the community wants to do. Although it wasn't much due to the low marketcap, I was very grateful to have that source of funds coming in. My computer services business is my only other source of income, and in a town of only 300 people it doesn't always bring in enough to pay the bills.

If the community is willing to support my role as a witness and have me redirect the delegate fees elsewhere I have the required account keys.

Gentso was planning on sending me a USB stick that I was going to put all of the delegate info on and send it back to him. He never followed through however. So I am the person with all the necessary info to restore delegate operation.

I am not clear DSN what exactly you were disagreeing with about lib_jay's post. As far as I'm concerned delegate.verbaltech is done, unless the community wants to keep me in place as a witness and have me direct the funds elsewhere. It should be up to the community.

Thom,  I would be in favor of verbaltech redirecting 38% of the fund to 38MartinPtswarrior.  It would be a trial run for his delegate, and if we don't like how he handles the funds then we can redirect elsewhere.  Verbaltech could potentially be an "incubator" for delegates to show what they are made of prior to getting voted in.

I second funding 38ptswarrior.

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Offline CryptoPrometheus

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2015, 04:30:49 pm »
Thank you Jonathon, that's very generous of you to offer.

I have all the info required to restore the delegate operation on a new VPS, but the question is, is that the correct course of action?

verbaltech was a 100% business development delegate. I was getting a 15% fee to support the technical work and gentso got 85%

I would certainly be willing to send the 85% somewhere else, if that is what the community wants to do. Although it wasn't much due to the low marketcap, I was very grateful to have that source of funds coming in. My computer services business is my only other source of income, and in a town of only 300 people it doesn't always bring in enough to pay the bills.

If the community is willing to support my role as a witness and have me redirect the delegate fees elsewhere I have the required account keys.

Gentso was planning on sending me a USB stick that I was going to put all of the delegate info on and send it back to him. He never followed through however. So I am the person with all the necessary info to restore delegate operation.

I am not clear DSN what exactly you were disagreeing with about lib_jay's post. As far as I'm concerned delegate.verbaltech is done, unless the community wants to keep me in place as a witness and have me direct the funds elsewhere. It should be up to the community.

Thom,  I would be in favor of verbaltech redirecting 38% of the fund to 38MartinPtswarrior.  It would be a trial run for his delegate, and if we don't like how he handles the funds then we can redirect elsewhere.  Verbaltech could potentially be an "incubator" for delegates to show what they are made of prior to getting voted in.

I second funding 38ptswarrior.

 +5% me to

I would also support this ^^
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Offline Thom

Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2015, 06:53:32 pm »
I'm beginning to see a pattern of community support for 38ptswarior. I'll be happy to redirect funds to where ever the community wants me to.

I was going to donate gentso's portion to fuzzy to distribute to his team as he sees fit. Perhaps a split is preferred: 38% to be given to 38ptswarior and the 47% given to the Beyond Bitcoin team?

BTW, how do you start a poll in SMF anyway? Do you need to have mod privileges?

The concept of a "delegate incubator" is interesting. What type of conditions / metrics / deliverables should we establish for the funds given to 38ptswarior? Our discussion yesterday leads me to believe this is an important consideration.

Fuzzy's team has a track record and it's much easier to see the results of their work. It is also a team of people, who are not being adequately compensated for what they produce.

Until delegate.verbaltech is voted out, I will be in charge of the funds it produces. I feel a sense of responsibility in disbursing these funds, and as such believe it's important to establish the criteria for measuring how well 38ptswarior is using the funds given to him by the community.

Also, if delegate.verbaltech is not voted out, it will be me managing the delegate node, nobody else. In that regard it's not a true test of how well a delegate "candidate" manages technical duties, only how well he manages the funds. This goes to illustrate the dualistic nature of our current DPoS 1.0 delegate system and why delegate teams are a good approach.

No matter what is discussed in this forum it can only be an approximation of shareholder consensus. The only formal consensus is shareholder voting. I will redirect gentso's 85% to where ever the community desires until delegate.verbaltech is voted out. How we arrive at that is what conditions are placed on that need to be discussed. I am open to all suggestions, especially regarding conditions / metrics.

BTW, delegate.verbaltech is online once again producing blocks and supplying 24 feeds, so I am still earning my pay, which I am very grateful for.

I think the the way to go about this is for 38ptswarior to open a separate thread to campaign for his "delegate slot" and explain how he intends to show results, how he will be measured. 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 07:24:23 pm by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

38PTSWarrior

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2015, 07:33:40 pm »
I'm beginning to see a pattern of community support for 38ptswarior. I'll be happy to redirect funds to where ever the community wants me to.

I was going to donate gentso's portion to fuzzy to distribute to his team as he sees fit. Perhaps a split is preferred: 38% to be given to 38ptswarior and the 47% given to the Beyond Bitcoin team?

BTW, how do you start a poll in SMF anyway? Do you need to have mod privileges?

The concept of a "delegate incubator" is interesting. What type of conditions / metrics / deliverables should we establish for the funds given to 38ptswarior? Our discussion yesterday leads me to believe this is an important consideration.

Fuzzy's team has a track record and it's much easier to see the results of their work. It is also a team of people, who are not being adequately compensated for what they produce.

Until delegate.verbaltech is voted out, I will be in charge of the funds it produces. I feel a sense of responsibility in disbursing these funds, and as such believe it's important to establish the criteria for measuring how well 38ptswarior is using the funds given to him by the community.

Also, if delegate.verbaltech is not voted out, it will be me managing the delegate node, nobody else. In that regard it's not a true test of how well a delegate "candidate" manages technical duties, only how well he manages the funds. This goes to illustrate the dualistic nature of our current DPoS 1.0 delegate system and why delegate teams are a good approach.

No matter what is discussed in this forum it can only be an approximation of shareholder consensus. The only formal consensus is shareholder voting. I will redirect gentso's 85% to where ever the community desires until delegate.verbaltech is voted out. How we arrive at that is what conditions are placed on that need to be discussed. I am open to all suggestions, especially regarding conditions / metrics.

BTW, delegate.verbaltech is online once again producing blocks and supplying 24 feeds, so I am still earning my pay, which I am very grateful for.
Hi, sorry that I lost my temper at the hangout and that I hijacked your talk CryptoPrometheus.
I have to learn group talks.

I am happy to read that you want to trust me with some funds. I want to take a roll here and show you that I can do it.

I am trusting liondani and puppies (delegate, wallet). A good team. I think liondani lets me play so I can get confidence, puppies is I think not publicly known (?) which got me thinking about if I should register the asset through his server. But I think love rules and.. screw it, just do it..
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 07:36:50 pm by 38PTSWarrior »

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2015, 09:02:16 pm »
In any case it should be made widely public (like announcing a new delegate) who/what the funds are directed at.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2015, 09:15:26 pm »
In any case it should be made widely public (like announcing a new delegate) who/what the funds are directed at.

Previously when funds from one delegate have been redirected - they have been re-directed to a delegate that has been voted in, but because of the down market in BTS was not getting enough funds to accomplish the project.

Martin's delegate has not been voted in, and to redirect funds to him would be a travesty and bordering on theft. If the people who have called for this want Martin to get funds to try out his project, then they should send him their own money.

I have sent donations to Martin, more than once, despite the fact that I do not consider that handing out fliers and talking to people on the streets is a very effective way of marketing our project. I was hoping to help him build confidence and I admired his passion. But that was my own money that I sent to him, and therefore my own choice. Forcing others to fund him is not ethical.

I also voted for him, but not enough other people did so to get him into the 101. He therefore has no right to dilution funding which would be paid for by everyone despite his not having garnered enough votes.

Offline lil_jay890

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2015, 09:32:59 pm »
The way I see it is that we are investing in him and hoping his ROI is better than what we put in.  If he does well, then we can vote in his delegate and redirect verbal tech funds to a different cause.  If he fails, the we can cut funding much easier than voting out his delegate.  I don't see how this is any different than using funds to pay for a rap song or outside graphic designs.  Those people don't really have any connection to Bitshares.

If Martin succeeds in bringing more people into bts, then all shareholders benefit.  Getting elected as a delegate is more about campaigning than anything else.  We can see a lot of the 100% delegates were mostly talk and didn't deliver on their promises.  Martin may not be the best campaigner or politician, but I believe he works hard and would be more productive with even a small amount of steady funding.  Some people just need a chance to prove themselves.

38PTSWarrior

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Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2015, 02:33:41 pm »
With my Endeavor Chateaux I can bring in 2-3 users a day. Then more..

Offline Thom

UPDATE: delegate.verbaltech (formerly business development)
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2015, 05:30:59 am »
This is an interim status report for delegate.verbaltech. If you review this thread you will see that on July 24th I announced that my former delegate partner, gentso, has abandoned his role as business delegate, leaving me to determine what course of action I should take regarding the disposition of this delegate.

I created a separate thread to poll the community and get input on how to redirect gentso's 85% portion of the delegate pay. I tried to provide a wide array of options, however the results did not achieve a clear cut consensus, and basically it boiled down to either burning the 85% or redirecting them to a mixture of recipients. You can judge the poll results in that thread for yourself.

Many contributed to that poll thread, and near the end of the discussion it was donkeypong that suggested it was more about finding a partner than where to redirect funds. Ironically, it was DataSecurityNode that suggested a partnership between myself and Nicholas Wack of btstools.digitalgaia. I have worked with wackou in the past on extending his most excellent bts_tools python code, by helping him to refine the documentation for it and authoring a payroll plugin to distribute delegate pay to multiple recipient addresses on a percentage basis. It is with this in mind that I propose a new mission for delegate.verbaltech, working with wackou to strengthen the delegate infrastructure and improving overall reliability and robustness of the decentralized, worldwide BitShares network.

I have contacted Nicholas and we are both very enthusiastic about a partnership
between delegate.verbaltech and btstools.digitalgaia

Nicholas (wackou in the forums) is currently traveling and has limited Internet availability, so this report is of my own making. When he returns from his travels it is my intention to solicit his input to create a formal proposal for our partnership, centered mostly around the goals he has expressed in his original proposal to continue the development of bts tools and extend the backbone architecture he has described in detail. He suggested a 50 / 50 split of delegate.verbaltech funds between us, however I believe that a 70 / 30 split is more appropriate, with 70% being redirected to btstools.digitalgaia and 30% retained by delegate.verbaltech. Essentially this will result in a reversal of the delegate pay percentages of our 2 delegates, since currently delegate.verbaltech is a 100% pay delegate and btstools.digitalgaia is a 30% delegate.

This proposed partnership will result in btstools.digitalgaia getting 100% and
delegate.verbaltech getting 30% to carry out our combined mission.
 
I will split my 30% portion between: 1) paying the fees for VPS systems to provide reliable, redundant operation of the delegate.verbaltech node as well as additional seed nodes and support for the backbone network architecture which wackou and I feel is required, 2) paying for separate VPS servers to help with the testing of witness nodes for BitShares 2.0 (graphene) and 3) the remainder as a labor fee to compensate for the time to perform this work and continue the effort of writing The BitShares Saga book series.

I have already begun to establish several new VPS accounts around the world (in the USA, Germany and Australia) for graphene testing, to run delegate.verbaltech and a backup VPS for failover of delegate.verbaltech. 2 of these are 4GB KVM VPS servers and one is a 2GB OpenVZ server for graphene testing. Other systems will be added as deemed necessary by wackou and I. Many of you may have noticed the reliability of delegate.verbaltech increasing this week as I deployed the node to a new VPS. When gentso shut down our Digital Ocean VPS the reliability has hovered just below 95%. Since going to the new VPS, now located in Australia, reliability is increasing and the number of missed blocks has not gone up (it is sitting at 300 missed blocks right now). I find it interesting that the node averages between 60 and 80 network connections in Australia vs. 30 - 50 in Europe.

Lastly I want to thank all who have supported delegate.verbaltech and btstools.digitalgaia in the past and encourage you to continue that support as we move forward with our combined mission to extend the BitShares network to the far corners of the globe. Be on the lookout for a new formal proposal from our collaborative voice. Our goal is to serve the needs of the BitShares community through a strong alliance of technical skills and decades of software development experience, as well as spreading the word about BitShares through the publication of The BitShares Saga. 

 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 05:35:16 am by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline BunkerChainLabs-com

Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2015, 06:08:50 am »

Why is it ironic that it was my idea?! I am a living fountain of great ideas! :)

Glad it's worked out this way, as in my estimate it was the best possible outcome for the delegate.

I will reinstate my support for this delegate, and remove my approval of btstools.digitalgaia.

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Offline Thom

Re: Business development delegate
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2015, 02:42:51 pm »
You are indeed a "fountain of of great ideas" at times, this being a case in point. I found it ironic b/c of the opinions you expressed in that thread. Judging by the comments others have made to me and to you (I saw where you yourself posted elsewhere that you caught flack for them) those opinions weren't received well, contrasted with your support for the partnership.

Hey man, it's water under the bridge, no point in hashing out all over again. We all have different perspectives, and that's a good thing. People may disagree from time to time and even get emotional about it but that doesn't mean they're enemies or bad people.

On a positive note it looks like we both got a vote of approval yesterday, as 3 or 4 delegates jumped in their rankings as reported by bsb. delegate.verbaltech jumped 16 points!

Anyway, thanks again for the support. You are of course free to vote however you like, but I'm curious why you are withdrawing support for btstools.digitalgaia?
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html