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Messages - clockwork

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31
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Worker Proposal] Reduce onboarding registrar
« on: September 04, 2019, 10:49:28 am »
Here is the thing: The worker was proposed in a certain way (defined in the worker proposal).
Changing terms in the middle is not good business. If you want to have it 0%, it may be viable long term, but a subsequent worker needs to propose it that way.
This worker and its parameters are set in stone.
Can you provide numbers for the income by reducing registrar from 15% to 0?

What percentage is non-LTM signup and LTM-referrral signup?

i would be interested to know these as well for fee-schedule calculations if you can get them Fabian.

32
中文 (Chinese) / Re: Calling all BitShares-based businesses.
« on: September 03, 2019, 11:49:47 pm »
Thanks to lin5464 for the translation.

--------------------------------------------

In light of recent discussions about worker funding and the voting shift with refund 400k worker, and considering a down payment and commitment has been made for the sponsorship I want to make the following update and amendments to the worker budget to ensure continued funding so that the sponsorship fee will not be money down the drain.

鉴于最近对工人提案注资的讨论以及投票转移到refund 400k提案,考虑到对去中心化峰会已作出的承诺和已支付的订金,为了确保本提案能持续获得注资以及赞助费不被白白浪费掉,我想对此提案预算作出以下更新和修订。

For tax purposes, payment of the sponsorship costs was handed over to the BBF. This saves us the VAT calculated in the original worker while incurring a 5% escrow cost, bringing the total sponsorship cost to  116.5k instead of 135.5 for a saving of 19k USD.

出于税务上的考虑,赞助费用的款项已交由BBF托管。这虽然增加了5%的托管手续费,但节省了原提案中需要缴纳的增值税,此举使得赞助费从135.5k美元减少到116.5k美元,省下了19k美元。

Additionally at least 4 of the core team members who will be attending will have their travel/accommodation covered by the Core Team worker's existing conference budget for a minimum savings of another 8k USD.

此外,参加峰会的核心团队成员中至少有4人的差旅/住宿费将由核心团队现有的提案会议预算支付,最低可节省8k美元。

Furthermore I will attempt to ensure that the average per person accommodation and travel cost for the remaining 20 slots does not exceed 1.5k  for a minimum savings of 10k USD.

而且我将努力确保其余20个名额的人均住宿费和差费不超过1.5k美元,最低节省10k美元。

Finally, I will negotiate the promotional material production (video, leaflets etc.) down to 5k USD for another 2k savings and cut the unexpected expenses buffer to just 500$ for another 1k USD saved.

最后,我会协商将宣传材料的制作费用(视频、传单等)减少到5000美元以节省2000美元,并将不可预见费用削减到500美元以节省1000美元。

This brings the total MAXIMUM cost of the worker down to 160k USD which is a 20% decrease from the original plan.

这使得此提案的最高预算成本下降到16万美元,比原计划减少了20%。

I hope this will be better suited to the community and people will reevaluate their voting slates.

希望这将更符合社区的期望,愿社区成员能重新评估你们的投票。

Thank you,

谢谢!

Alex

亚历克斯

P.S. I should point out that this (like last year's) worker has NO management fee and I get NO reimbursement of any kind for planning/organising it apart from entry to the event. I'm working on it simply because I truly believe it will be beneficial to the platform.

附注:我要指出的是, (和去年一样)此提案没有管理费,除了参加活动外,我没有获得任何形式的计划/组织回扣。我之所以致力于此只是因为我真心相信这将有益于平台。

I'm very sorry, sir. Now let me officially reply to you on behalf of the cn-vote community.
Again, I apologize for replying to you so late,because our community has had a heated discussion about this worker.
Now, give you our official reply:We don't agree with the follow-up expenditure of this worker, or even oppose it.
Reason:
1:The conference had little influence.
2:Too many participants and not transparent.
3:Expenses are too high.
4:The Bishares'secondary market is too weak to withstand the crash of worker expenditure.
Considering the current price of BitShares, we would rather give up our previous expenditure than see errors occur,After all, we have evidence that previous this worker's cash-outs caused a sharp drop in  price of BitShares.
I'm sorry to see this happen, but it represents the appeal of most people in our cn-vote.

Thanks for the official response. I respect your decision but would like to answer all your points and clarify them for BitShares holders as there appears to be misinformation for this worker and thus some holders may reconsider their proxy support

1. The conference could not have had "little influence" as it hasn't actually occurred yet. It's taking place at the end of October.

As to the POSSIBLE influence it could have, I invite and beg BitShares holders to have an IN DEPTH look at the agenda and speakers of the conference over at https://www.decentralized.com/business-technology-track/#_Speakers , https://www.decentralized.com/agenda-2019/ and the rest of the site.

2. The number of participants was set by the number of slots included in the partnership package. Please remember this is a partnership and BitShares is CO-PRESENTING this conference. We are NOT simple attendees.

As such, it is expected and appropriate to have MULTIPLE key members and businesses represented. As far as transparency in the selection process is concerned, the selection has not happened yet.  The proposal itself mentions who and why was already selected prior to the proposal and the rest of the (non-speaking) attendees would be decided AFTER the speaking slots were filled. May I remind you that I am STILL waiting for a CN community selection and/or business to step up which was the original point of this thread. Yet no-one has expressed any interest to represent the CN community while I'm practically begging for someone to do so and would be cost-free to those participants.

3. I disagree to an extent. I've provided MAXIMUM limits for those costs that are not fixed but the plan is to have them cost as little as possible. Flights/accommodation/press material is at standard/expected rates (obvs flight costs will vary wildly per location). The arguably high cost is the cost of the partnership itself (essentially paying for organising it as co-presenters). Having experienced the last one, I can tell you it's a good price for the quality and size of the event. @fox and others can confirm.

What's more, due to the commitment and the funds already gathered, that cost will be paid in full if possible (it's very touch and go) as I find it highly insulting, unprofessional and a tremendous hit on BitShares reputation (which is not great to start with) to pull out of the deal. Obviously, with no additional funding and depending on the market, we might still have to pull out of the event anyway.

4. There has only been two "periods" of cashing out BTS to pay the partnership costs. All order details/logs are at the https://workers.bitshares.foundation/ site. Combined with the charts from the periods in question there is NO significant effect from those as I've specifically requested to the BBF that selling is done slowly and carefully to not affect the market.

So with all due respect, I'm sorry to say that your claim that you have evidence cashing out caused a "sharp drop" in BTS price is frankly BS.

This is a marketing opportunity, one designed to make a big splash and provide a space and platform for the rest of the crypto world to meet and interact with the BitShares community and learn more about the businesses working with BitShares and finally shaking off the "scam" accusations that have followed us for years. Hence the size of the event and the number of participants as I wanted the BitShares community to be VERY WELL represented there.

I would also like to point out that I am receiving NO FEE or payment for doing this. I am only doing it because I think it will have a positive effect ALL BTS holders will benefit from. And with >16 years work in the marketing & advertising industry I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Finally, I can understand the CN community (and especially debt-holders) concerns about BTS possibly dropping to 0 and them losing their investments so they take ANY step possible to avoid even the TINIEST movement downwards.

Just be careful that you don't turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy with your actions.

If people of the CN community really care about BitShares, I hope you will all read what I wrote carefully and think about things as well as visit the links provided to see for yourselves. If after that some of you change your mind, please consider (temporarily) modifying your voting slate so the decentralized worker is voted back in. If you don't , keep proxying to cn-vote.

I will accept all decisions (positive and negative) as long as they're WELL INFORMED and take all aspects into account. After all this is how business decisions are made. This is not a playground.

Thank you for your time.

Alex

33
中文 (Chinese) / Re: Calling all BitShares-based businesses.
« on: September 03, 2019, 08:27:34 am »
尊敬的Alex先生,

首先感谢你重新削减了会议开支。不出我所料,bts的价格已经从上次我给你回信的4美分跌到接近3美分。 我相信即使按照你新预算16万美元的开支,在当前的市场情况下,也足以将bts价格推向2美分。

我个人和社区部分成员有如下的几个意见,想和你探讨一下:

1)社区已经支持了50%以上的希腊会议经费。剩余部分是否可以由参加会议的人员自己垫付?
2)个人垫付的部分由社区发行UIA资产(marketing fund)相应予以补偿,这些资产可以流通,社区在适当的时候予以回购并赋予该资产持有者相应的荣誉。
3)24个参会者的数目应该至少削减到15个。

谢谢
twitter

Thanks to lin5464 for the translation.

--------------------------------------------

In light of recent discussions about worker funding and the voting shift with refund 400k worker, and considering a down payment and commitment has been made for the sponsorship I want to make the following update and amendments to the worker budget to ensure continued funding so that the sponsorship fee will not be money down the drain.

鉴于最近对工人提案注资的讨论以及投票转移到refund 400k提案,考虑到对去中心化峰会已作出的承诺和已支付的订金,为了确保本提案能持续获得注资以及赞助费不被白白浪费掉,我想对此提案预算作出以下更新和修订。

For tax purposes, payment of the sponsorship costs was handed over to the BBF. This saves us the VAT calculated in the original worker while incurring a 5% escrow cost, bringing the total sponsorship cost to  116.5k instead of 135.5 for a saving of 19k USD.

出于税务上的考虑,赞助费用的款项已交由BBF托管。这虽然增加了5%的托管手续费,但节省了原提案中需要缴纳的增值税,此举使得赞助费从135.5k美元减少到116.5k美元,省下了19k美元。

Additionally at least 4 of the core team members who will be attending will have their travel/accommodation covered by the Core Team worker's existing conference budget for a minimum savings of another 8k USD.

此外,参加峰会的核心团队成员中至少有4人的差旅/住宿费将由核心团队现有的提案会议预算支付,最低可节省8k美元。

Furthermore I will attempt to ensure that the average per person accommodation and travel cost for the remaining 20 slots does not exceed 1.5k  for a minimum savings of 10k USD.

而且我将努力确保其余20个名额的人均住宿费和差费不超过1.5k美元,最低节省10k美元。

Finally, I will negotiate the promotional material production (video, leaflets etc.) down to 5k USD for another 2k savings and cut the unexpected expenses buffer to just 500$ for another 1k USD saved.

最后,我会协商将宣传材料的制作费用(视频、传单等)减少到5000美元以节省2000美元,并将不可预见费用削减到500美元以节省1000美元。

This brings the total MAXIMUM cost of the worker down to 160k USD which is a 20% decrease from the original plan.

这使得此提案的最高预算成本下降到16万美元,比原计划减少了20%。

I hope this will be better suited to the community and people will reevaluate their voting slates.

希望这将更符合社区的期望,愿社区成员能重新评估你们的投票。

Thank you,

谢谢!

Alex

亚历克斯

P.S. I should point out that this (like last year's) worker has NO management fee and I get NO reimbursement of any kind for planning/organising it apart from entry to the event. I'm working on it simply because I truly believe it will be beneficial to the platform.

附注:我要指出的是, (和去年一样)此提案没有管理费,除了参加活动外,我没有获得任何形式的计划/组织回扣。我之所以致力于此只是因为我真心相信这将有益于平台。

Is this @cn-vote's "official" response?

34
中文 (Chinese) / Re: cn-vote积分公告
« on: September 03, 2019, 05:18:55 am »
The worker is paid in cnvote...the value of cnvote is that given by the buyback program. But that is dependent on the now diluted cnvote supply.


Let's assume a freelancer wants to be paid 1000 cny for some work.he gets paid 1000 cnvote instead. So guild needs to buy back cnvote at 1 cny worth of bts. But there's already 1000+ X cnvote in circulation due to cnvote's distribution scheme. So either worker will cost much much more or you are assuming that the freelancer will take a discount in order to get any pay at all. What's more, his order will be competing with orders by people who didn't work for their cnvote and thus even a tiny amount is a net profit to them.

Who will offer to do work under these conditions?

Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding the translations.

35
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Worker Proposal] Reduce onboarding registrar
« on: September 02, 2019, 01:42:21 pm »
erm...openledger takes 50%

This is an old value, OL takes now 0%!

oh ok...they switch the referral percentage based on the existence of a referrer param...hadn't realised.

Still, It's a numbers game... Maybe the income from non-referrer vs referrer accounts is enough...maybe it isnt.

Xeroc, wanna run the numbers at some point?

36
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Worker Proposal] Reduce onboarding registrar
« on: September 02, 2019, 01:14:14 pm »
At the moment the onboarding.bitshares.foundation takes 15% as registrar.
To stay competitive with OpenLedger the registrar should also be set to 0%.

Registrar cut was introduced to cover costs for signup, but with low signup costs and new referral system (market fee share), this is not needed anymore.

erm...openledger takes 50%

37
为了鼓励参与高倍数抵押的人,应该在“解冻余额”中可以申领 连续抵押了多少天的账户可以申领 理事会的系统中的那10亿BTS的拿一部分来奖励,或者拿市场手续费的一倍份来分红。

不要盯着资金池里的10亿BTS,本来就不应该存在的东西,导致现在人人都在盯着资金池,而不是用真正的收入来覆盖支出,增发的资金池本来是为基础开发置留的,而不是为了各种会议及架构留的.

一个refund400k就能把老外搞的各种疯狂,当初抵制增发的时候这帮人又是什么样的嘴脸?!

锚定资产区收的锚定资产手续费倒是可以拿一部分用来给高倍长期抵押的用户分点红,毕竟这些羊毛出在羊身上,用在羊身上也无可厚非,相当于负利率。

老外的思维落后时代太多,很多问题我们指出并提出解决方案时,他们还在持续性的各种懵逼中,坚持自己的看法就是宇宙真理,等到漫长的时间流逝之后,他们中可能才会有那么一两个人才会意识到问题的表面。

I agree with you regarding real income.

I wrote about this 18 months ago:

https://steemit.com/bitshares/@clockwork/bitshares-fees-the-fee-schedule-and-dex-profitability

I then spent 3 months analyzing chain data and in discussions with stakeholders and traders to implement a new , more efficient/profitable fee schedule.

And then I was treated like the enemy for suggesting that the chain should be profitable like you are saying now and the fee change was cancelled leading to the state of the reserve pool now.

I've ALWAYS acted and commented with the best interests of the platform in mind. It's others who are voting only with their pocket.

38
@lin5464, can you confirm you have received your bounty?

@clockwork Thank you. I've received the bounty.  :)

:)

39
General Discussion / Re: AVG2907 dumping price massivly ?
« on: September 02, 2019, 09:22:16 am »
https://bts.ai/u/openledger-ops

https://bts.ai/u/openledger-corporate

So,workers.bitshares.foundation dump bts in the DEX to get bitcny/bitusd,and then pay bitusd/bitcny to openledger-corporate

the openledger-ops buy bts in DEX,then dump bts in binance-bts-1?

Payments for OL's contributions to core dev.

https://workers.bitshares.foundation/201902-bitshares-core

40
@tshen @bitcrab
The worker system is what makes bitshares unique and now we cut off the very people trying to advance bitshares?  If we do not pay the developers, they will simply find another job to put food on the table.  Once they are gone, it's game over, they will not come back.

It has been suggested before to create multiple 100k refund workers so it's easier include or exclude all the workers.  No time like the present to do this and get development funded again.

IIRC the core worker has enough fund to support development.

If necessary, I'd like to suggest to vote core worker to top&active.

however, I don't think it's very difficult to find skilled enough developers to do the core dev job.

I find that comment very insulting to the core dev team.

41
@lin5464, can you confirm you have received your bounty?

42
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29393.msg334803#msg334803 Requires a translation.

No idea what going rate would be good for it...500 BTS?

In light of recent discussions about worker funding and the voting shift with refund 400k worker, and considering a down payment and commitment has been made for the sponsorship I want to make the following update and amendments to the worker budget to ensure continued funding so that the sponsorship fee will not be money down the drain.

鉴于最近对工人提案注资的讨论以及投票转移到refund 400k提案,考虑到对去中心化峰会已作出的承诺和已支付的订金,为了确保本提案能持续获得注资以及赞助费不被白白浪费掉,我想对此提案预算作出以下更新和修订。

For tax purposes, payment of the sponsorship costs was handed over to the BBF. This saves us the VAT calculated in the original worker while incurring a 5% escrow cost, bringing the total sponsorship cost to  116.5k instead of 135.5 for a saving of 19k USD.

出于税务上的考虑,赞助费用的款项已交由BBF托管。这虽然增加了5%的托管手续费,但节省了原提案中需要缴纳的增值税,此举使得赞助费从135.5k美元减少到116.5k美元,省下了19k美元。

Additionally at least 4 of the core team members who will be attending will have their travel/accommodation covered by the Core Team worker's existing conference budget for a minimum savings of another 8k USD.

此外,参加峰会的核心团队成员中至少有4人的差旅/住宿费将由核心团队现有的提案会议预算支付,最低可节省8k美元。

Furthermore I will attempt to ensure that the average per person accommodation and travel cost for the remaining 20 slots does not exceed 1.5k  for a minimum savings of 10k USD.

而且我将努力确保其余20个名额的人均住宿费和差费不超过1.5k美元,最低节省10k美元。

Finally, I will negotiate the promotional material production (video, leaflets etc.) down to 5k USD for another 2k savings and cut the unexpected expenses buffer to just 500$ for another 1k USD saved.

最后,我会协商将宣传材料的制作费用(视频、传单等)减少到5000美元以节省2000美元,并将不可预见费用削减到500美元以节省1000美元。

This brings the total MAXIMUM cost of the worker down to 160k USD which is a 20% decrease from the original plan.

这使得此提案的最高预算成本下降到16万美元,比原计划减少了20%。

I hope this will be better suited to the community and people will reevaluate their voting slates.

希望这将更符合社区的期望,愿社区成员能重新评估你们的投票。

Thank you,

谢谢!

Alex

亚历克斯

P.S. I should point out that this (like last year's) worker has NO management fee and I get NO reimbursement of any kind for planning/organising it apart from entry to the event. I'm working on it simply because I truly believe it will be beneficial to the platform.

附注:我要指出的是, (和去年一样)此提案没有管理费,除了参加活动外,我没有获得任何形式的计划/组织回扣。我之所以致力于此只是因为我真心相信这将有益于平台。

thanks. have sent your bounty to your BTS address

43
中文 (Chinese) / Re: Calling all BitShares-based businesses.
« on: August 31, 2019, 07:57:55 am »
Thanks to lin5464 for the translation.

--------------------------------------------

In light of recent discussions about worker funding and the voting shift with refund 400k worker, and considering a down payment and commitment has been made for the sponsorship I want to make the following update and amendments to the worker budget to ensure continued funding so that the sponsorship fee will not be money down the drain.

鉴于最近对工人提案注资的讨论以及投票转移到refund 400k提案,考虑到对去中心化峰会已作出的承诺和已支付的订金,为了确保本提案能持续获得注资以及赞助费不被白白浪费掉,我想对此提案预算作出以下更新和修订。

For tax purposes, payment of the sponsorship costs was handed over to the BBF. This saves us the VAT calculated in the original worker while incurring a 5% escrow cost, bringing the total sponsorship cost to  116.5k instead of 135.5 for a saving of 19k USD.

出于税务上的考虑,赞助费用的款项已交由BBF托管。这虽然增加了5%的托管手续费,但节省了原提案中需要缴纳的增值税,此举使得赞助费从135.5k美元减少到116.5k美元,省下了19k美元。

Additionally at least 4 of the core team members who will be attending will have their travel/accommodation covered by the Core Team worker's existing conference budget for a minimum savings of another 8k USD.

此外,参加峰会的核心团队成员中至少有4人的差旅/住宿费将由核心团队现有的提案会议预算支付,最低可节省8k美元。

Furthermore I will attempt to ensure that the average per person accommodation and travel cost for the remaining 20 slots does not exceed 1.5k  for a minimum savings of 10k USD.

而且我将努力确保其余20个名额的人均住宿费和差费不超过1.5k美元,最低节省10k美元。

Finally, I will negotiate the promotional material production (video, leaflets etc.) down to 5k USD for another 2k savings and cut the unexpected expenses buffer to just 500$ for another 1k USD saved.

最后,我会协商将宣传材料的制作费用(视频、传单等)减少到5000美元以节省2000美元,并将不可预见费用削减到500美元以节省1000美元。

This brings the total MAXIMUM cost of the worker down to 160k USD which is a 20% decrease from the original plan.

这使得此提案的最高预算成本下降到16万美元,比原计划减少了20%。

I hope this will be better suited to the community and people will reevaluate their voting slates.

希望这将更符合社区的期望,愿社区成员能重新评估你们的投票。

Thank you,

谢谢!

Alex

亚历克斯

P.S. I should point out that this (like last year's) worker has NO management fee and I get NO reimbursement of any kind for planning/organising it apart from entry to the event. I'm working on it simply because I truly believe it will be beneficial to the platform.

附注:我要指出的是, (和去年一样)此提案没有管理费,除了参加活动外,我没有获得任何形式的计划/组织回扣。我之所以致力于此只是因为我真心相信这将有益于平台。

44
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=29393.msg334803#msg334803 Requires a translation.

No idea what going rate would be good for it...500 BTS?


45
中文 (Chinese) / Re: Calling all BitShares-based businesses.
« on: August 30, 2019, 09:56:23 pm »
It would be nice if members/supporters of the Union could find a consens on this.
Silence is no solution.

Currently the worker is half funded and voted out.
On my knowledge bitshares would lose the collected funds also if it won't continue the conference sponsorship worker anymore.

I'm supporting the chinese move to reduce cost however disagree on the possibility to lose that amount of collected money for nothing.

Please keep negotiating to find a consensus.

I'm sure both sides are willing to negotiate.


Should there be no activity in next 3 days i will myself remove the vote from refund400k worker to not let happen that bitshares loses over 100k euro without benefit but i would prefer both parties would find a consensus making both of them happy.

In light of recent discussions about worker funding and the voting shift with refund 400k worker, and considering a down payment and commitment has been made for the sponsorship I want to make the following update and amendments to the worker budget to ensure continued funding so that the sponsorship fee will not be money down the drain.

For tax purposes, payment of the sponsorship costs was handed over to the BBF. This saves us the VAT calculated in the original worker while incurring a 5% escrow cost, bringing the total sponsorship cost to  116.5k instead of 135.5 for a saving of 19k USD.

Additionally at least 4 of the core team members who will be attending will have their travel/accommodation covered by the Core Team worker's existing conference budget for a minimum savings of another 8k USD.

Furthermore I will attempt to ensure that the average per person accommodation and travel cost for the remaining 20 slots does not exceed 1.5k  for a minimum savings of 10k USD.

Finally, I will negotiate the promotional material production (video, leaflets etc.) down to 5k USD for another 2k savings and cut the unexpected expenses buffer to just 500$ for another 1k USD saved.

This brings the total MAXIMUM cost of the worker down to 160k USD which is a 20% decrease from the original plan.

I hope this will be better suited to the community and people will reevaluate their voting slates.

Thank you,

Alex

P.S. I should point out that this (like last year's) worker has NO management fee and I get NO reimbursement of any kind for planning/organising it apart from entry to the event. I'm working on it simply because I truly believe it will be beneficial to the platform.

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If anyone could translate the statement above, it would be great.

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