Author Topic: Bter hacked. PTS, bitassets withdrawal successful. Share you experience.  (Read 121411 times)

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Offline klosure

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Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

It will need a 10% inflation at the current prices. the main issue though would be about running it. Will we be getting competent delegates to run it? BitShares is a decentralized movement and running an exchange directly doesn't seem to fit well, especially since we believe that if we are successful we won't need actual centralized exchanges.

How much of licensing they have anyway? CNY is possible through tradebts, and I doubt Bter has any USD licenses.
We can create a new DAC with 1:1 mapping of stake to real shares of the BTER company, which means that one unit of BTER stake entitles to the dividends of one unit of real BTER company shares and to one vote at the board. Thanks to that mapping, you can keep running BTER as a normal company and progressively DACify the management process as the ecosystem and management tools gets more mature. Meanwhile the shareholders can elect delegates to represent the DAC at BTER board.

Recapitalization of BTER can then be done without a share dilution. We can just organize a crowd sale of BTER shares so interested parties can invest in BTER. That way Bitshares isn't directly affected by the acquisition but still gets the benefits of having a large on/off-ramp tighly integrated in the eco-system. Holders of balances at BTER can elect to participate to the crowdsale at preferential rate and redeem BTER stake in lieue of their currency balance. This would help reducing further the pressure of the loss.

That would be a very exciting opportunity and it would feel very reassuring for BTER users to know that the exchange is now operated under tight control from a Bitshares DAC and cold wallets are controlled by delegates using multisig. For Bitshares the benefit is enormous as we can make bitAssets a central element of the trading books and ensure that bitAsset markets are getting always more liquidity until the point where the peg is so tight that we can start accepting 1:1 deposit / withdrawal between BTER balances and corresponding BitAssets.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 07:17:00 am by klosure »

Offline merlin0113

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During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.

Do you have the source of the interview?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODk0MzcwNTEy.html?sharefrom=iphone
But it's in Chinese.

sumantso

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Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

It will need a 10% inflation at the current prices. the main issue though would be about running it. Will we be getting competent delegates to run it? BitShares is a decentralized movement and running an exchange directly doesn't seem to fit well, especially since we believe that if we are successful we won't need actual centralized exchanges.

How much of licensing they have anyway? CNY is possible through tradebts, and I doubt Bter has any USD licenses.

Offline merlin0113

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.

A share dilution to support shorting 7170 bitBTC won't even affect the BTS price since the created BTS will be immediately locked in as collateral so it won't inflate the money supply.

To my knowledge Bter is a branch company to a big company. So it's complicated to bail out it.

Offline cube

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During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.

Do you have the source of the interview?
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Offline btcxyzzz

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i have no bts on bter. but i have to say it is because our client is not usable. Most the people can not install the client or sync.

Exactly my case! And because of that, I moved my BTS to Bter and you see what happened. Client needs to get fixed ASAP.

Offline klosure

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.
Their business is potentially worth much more than 7170 BTC and they would have no problem raising that much from a VC. 2M USD is pocket change for a VC. As a long time partner of BTER Bitshares is in a great position to close a deal first but we shouldn't ruin that opportunity by making a low ball offer.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 06:33:05 am by klosure »

sumantso

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

It won't be a 7170 BTC bailout, that money is gone. What they can expect is some compensation. Maybe they are offered some assets in lieu which entitles them to a portion of the income.

One benefit for us would be the snapshot/vested balance issue.

Offline klosure

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...
7170 BTCs minus reserves if any. But then future profits could be paid as dividends to shareholders to compensate for the massive sharedilution that would be necessary to bail out BTER.
Not sure how willing shareholders would be to do such acquisition. Personnaly I would throw a bunch of money in support of the price if this happens as Bitshares would suddenly become a major player in the crypto space and it would get a very positive image for saving the day.

Offline jsidhu

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anyone would look professional to someone who risks $1.5m dollars moving cold waller funds without multisig.. I wonder why they even needed to get coins out of cold wallet in the first place
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Offline merlin0113

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


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During the latest telephone interview with Bter CEO Han Lin, he said that this 7000+ BTC is all of their BTC cold storage reserve, now they end up with 200 BTC in their other hot wallet atm. Also he commented the hacker has been very professional, so it's hard to trace him and reclaim the lost fund.

Right now they still have no idea what method the hacker used to hack, as a result they still suspend all altcoin wallets because they don't want to risk it.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 06:03:04 am by merlin0113 »

Offline klosure

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You can just hold the bitAssets you want for as long as you want until you decide to cash out or trade again. Most people, however, don't see it that way. They immediately think that just because bitshares is mentioned, it's propaganda and we're trying to make them invest. They really don't need to. People need to understand they can be safe without ever having to risk investing in bitshares.
Ripple has been struggling with the very same perception problem since inception and it seems that it's a hard problem: people keep missing the forest for the tree and keep focalizing on XRP distribution although the Ripple community is putting the stress on *using* Ripple as exchange as opposed to investing in XRP. The Bitcoin community in particular seems to have a very very short attention span and a severe tentency to overreact and refuse to reassess beliefs so changing perception is near impossible.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 05:56:02 am by klosure »

Offline cube

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


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Yes, their  licenses/compliance records. And their experiences in operating an exchange!

Could our business dev Gentso1 sounds out Bter about a possible deal?  If the deal is affordable to bitshares, we should take it up.  This solves a big headache - fiat on/off-ramp.  I believe a huge marketing buzz would follow.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 05:33:49 am by cube »
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Offline jsidhu

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?
Would take atleast 500 btc and then we can create assets for all alts and hopefully decentralize it and have users come back.. Could be interesting... Wonder if bm would be interested it would be a big splash
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Offline carpet ride

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Why can't we bail out bter? Buy it completely as our onramp/offramp channel?

I'm guessing that would be very expensive...

not so expensive if they are bankrupt... What do they have that would be most valuable to us , maybe just need their licenses/compliance arrangements


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