Author Topic: Important Criticism  (Read 29744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jakub

  • Guest
It seems that a large part of the branding idea hinges upon the "similar but different" strategy.
Do we really need that? It imposes lots of limitations on us but IMHO does not bring many benefits.

Bitcoin has very vague branding as no single company is managing it. Even if it has any branding at all, it is non-existent in mass awareness.
Anyway, hardcore Bitcoin believers are not going to be our target audience. And people who don't care too much about Bitcoin (just have heard about it or used it only a couple of times) are not going to take notice of the "similar but different" strategy.

But maybe I'm missing something. What was the reasoning that led to it?

I know you selected Bitcoin as your main competitor but does it really matter for an average Joe who is probably not very familiar with the nuances of the crypto-world?
(And an average Joe is the important guy here as you rightly aim at the retail market, not financial institutions)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:07:38 am by jakub »

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
This is an ambitious and extremely thoughtful proposal you've forwarded here. You make a compelling case for bringing to market--and none too soon--a currency that will help fill a void, delivering on the promises that we know Bitcoin cannot.

About the name "IDentabit": yes, it's drawn attention here on this thread, but frankly I'm quite skeptical that means the name is clearly a win. It's not the capital "D" that is most concerning. Actually, "Identabit" would be memorable to consumers, as would be "Remitabit", provided that critical mass had already been achieved. These would be perfectly fine names for a company, a protocol, a platform... or a blockchain. But they would definitely be less useful as names of currency units. Perhaps most importantly, these names are unwieldy. Being four syllables, "Identabit" is a risky choice for currency units because it won't make it easy for people to speak of, think of, spell, and read about without stumbling over them or, worse yet, scoffing at them. All of this could impede the rapid uptake of the currency by consumers. Maybe when crypto has become mainstream, then clunky, long currency names will be more typical and more effective. But I don't think we are there yet, not nearly so.

Have you considered keeping "Identabit" and "Remitabit" as the names of the respective blockchains but using shorter and simpler names for the actual currency units? Using different names for tradeable units and their underlying blockchain seems to be quite a common practice nowadays: e.g., Ripple and XRP, Ethereum and Ether, MUSE and notes, etc.

You could call the blockchain "Identabit" but the currency units "IDbits" (which would jive well with "IDbank" and "IDpay"). Likewise, you could call the Remitabit blockchain's currency units "Rembits". The logo for IDbits (which evokes Bitcoin's logo) could stay the same. Which of the following sounds better: "I'd like to send you XX.XX Remitabits" versus "I'd like to send you XX.XX Rembits". Or "That'll be XX.XX Identabits, please" versus "That'll be XX.XX IDbits, please". To me, it seems obvious that the short & sweet names are more likely to catch on.

Another thought is that you could promote the usage of abbreviations for Identabits as much as possible, so that users would come to refer to them as IDB. Remitabits could be RMB (or some variation thereof to avoid confusion with the symbol for Chinese currency).

Sensible words we do in fact intend to refer to Identabits as IDB
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline pendragon3

This is an ambitious and extremely thoughtful proposal you've forwarded here. You make a compelling case for bringing to market--and none too soon--a currency that will help fill a void, delivering on the promises that we know Bitcoin cannot.

About the name "IDentabit": yes, it's drawn attention here on this thread, but frankly I'm quite skeptical that means the name is clearly a win. It's not the capital "D" that is most concerning. Actually, "Identabit" would be memorable to consumers, as would be "Remitabit", provided that critical mass had already been achieved. These would be perfectly fine names for a company, a protocol, a platform... or a blockchain. But they would definitely be less useful as names of currency units. Perhaps most importantly, these names are unwieldy. Being four syllables, "Identabit" is a risky choice for currency units because it won't make it easy for people to speak of, think of, spell, and read about without stumbling over them or, worse yet, scoffing at them. All of this could impede the rapid uptake of the currency by consumers. Maybe when crypto has become mainstream, then clunky, long currency names will be more typical and more effective. But I don't think we are there yet, not nearly so.

Have you considered keeping "Identabit" and "Remitabit" as the names of the respective blockchains but using shorter and simpler names for the actual currency units? Using different names for tradeable units and their underlying blockchain seems to be quite a common practice nowadays: e.g., Ripple and XRP, Ethereum and Ether, MUSE and notes, etc.

You could call the blockchain "Identabit" but the currency units "IDbits" (which would jive well with "IDbank" and "IDpay"). Likewise, you could call the Remitabit blockchain's currency units "Rembits". The logo for IDbits (which evokes Bitcoin's logo) could stay the same. Which of the following sounds better: "I'd like to send you XX.XX Remitabits" versus "I'd like to send you XX.XX Rembits". Or "That'll be XX.XX Identabits, please" versus "That'll be XX.XX IDbits, please". To me, it seems obvious that the short & sweet names are more likely to catch on.

Another thought is that you could promote the usage of abbreviations for Identabits as much as possible, so that users would come to refer to them as IDB. Remitabits could be RMB (or some variation thereof to avoid confusion with the symbol for Chinese currency).

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
It's quite telling that a discussion thread dedicated to criticism ended up to be purely about the name.
And that's because that's the case really - everything is solid and flawless except the name.

I think to myself: what a shame such a great idea is going to be wasted for such trivial reason.
So please John don't kill your brilliant child with an ill-chosen name. It will come and haunt you when you try to promote it. People are mostly irrational and the name will distract them from the concept itself.

What I already proposed in the other thread is this: IDENTICON. It's not perfect but the best I can come up with if we need to have the word "identity" embedded in it.

Or it can even be Pied Piper  ;)

Thank you Jakub of the many comments yours is the most penetrating...it has left me with two conflicting thoughts

The first being we should open the door to anyone that can come up with a family of names that supports our vision for the blockchain and the strategic products that will flow from it - (please check the following so you are able to consider the implications)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr or

A second thought is that the name is clearly a win given the attention it has drawn...I am increasingly thinking the big D has to go however...it definitely made people think of experiences we would prefer to forget.

In the interest of suggesting a name where the .com .org.info are available (as with Identabit.com/org/info) Maybe we should have called it armlessmonkey.com ;-)
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
The website is written in British English, which since your Aussie makes sense, but I am not sure which version of English is preferred for a worldwide audience.

I personally prefer British English, and subconsciously have a better impression when someone uses it flawlessly.

Pip Pip Old Boy  :D

Wicked, FYI I'm a mix, born in the UK, left after school for Australia and then lived in HK and New York...so my english is all over the place.

I think despite your constructive and complimentary words we should Americanise our content but I am afraid I have no choice but to use my botched version of the English language in the forum, so all I can ask is for your understanding.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 12:58:53 am by underwun »
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
What functionality does Ethereum have (or promise to have in the future) over BitShares? How much does the name "Ethereum" contribute to its current 10x market cap advantage over BitShares?

Etherium has a good market cap because they were able to get momentum behind their tech. That counts more than many here would like to believe.

Thank you I enjoy your comments and it would be remiss of me not to reply to you directly.

I've posted a general statement above and I agree that the D drowns the I and turns the name into a mouth guard, or something for kids with overbite.

The name is not precious but the strategy is and how the name interrelates with other names is important. As mentioned in the link below, the name is part of a family of names intended for use over the next few years where one of the most important being Remitabit. I need to expand the point behind rolling out Identabit first and how Remitabit is related but in short, I'll share the following:

Remitabit has a unique compelling model that we are keen to introduce but we came to believe that an anonymous blockchain wasn't going to cut it with institutional partners and that we needed to establish a case for an institutionally acceptable blockchain. Remitabit will sit atop Identabit but we didn't want to bring it out and have the identity argument drown the remittance story, so Phase 1. identity, Phase 2 remittances and the massive adoption of Remitabits driving the value of Identabits.

A quick message to our competitors, hiding beneath the surface are features and dependency on the Bitshares architecture that make this model work and sustainable despite increased government intervention. So we wish you luck but get use to the fact that we have spent nearly two years to get to this place and we are in this for the long haul...so get used to seeing us around.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr

« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 10:08:39 pm by underwun »
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
I like this project and think it has potential. The one thing that seems unprofessional to me is the name itself. I would suggest using a naming service like http://www.namebase.com (there are many others). I would also recommend staying away from any and all cliches like "bit" for example. I would opt for a name that has nothing to do with cryptocurrency. Example: Ethereum, Ripple, Stellar, Graphene. These are all great names.

I'm not a big fan of the name either. Mainly because you will have a hard time to seem serious with French speakers.

I don't know how to make this comment and don't sound like a retarded teenager but ...

iIdentabit pronounce itself the same way as " i dans ta bite " which you can translate  from french by " i in your dick "

The equivalent thing would be like naming a french company something like "inyordik"

Any other french speakers over here who find the name no very suited for french pronunciation ?

Hahaha :)

But that's where they install the microchips! :P

Perhaps a naming schema in Esperanto would land a safe wording worldwide? :)

I already started on this naming thing in the last thread.. Something to do with badge I think would work great on a lot of levels. It fits in with something people understand.. it has poential for people to really build a personalized something out of it.. and saying 'what is your badgeID' or whatever it ends up being is universally understood.

Again.. my 2 brownie.pts.
I seriously like the Esperanto idea! Check this http://www.esperanto-panorama.net/vortaro/eoen.htm
Mono means money. Suggestions:
MonoID
IDMono
IdentMono
MonoIdent

IDMono even sounds like "the money".

Any problems with that Estaffan?  :D

I was going through this dictionary and found something that really resonated with me.

difini  =  define
 /diˈfini/
as in define yourself/itself.

Just throw an "i" in front of this and you'll get a pretty good name scheme... iDifini
You'll retain the "I.D." connection,
It's easy to pronounce though it's 4 syllables long,
and it also seems to lend to some "catchy" tag lines... " To securely privatize your public ID... iDifini" , "Have you iDifini?", "iDifini if any!"
 :D

Hi :-)

As suggested if you could take a look at our reasoning and blend your recommendations into the broader objectives please. I'm all for differing opinions but it the attached document I have explained related objectives and constructive comments be inclusive of the bigger picture.

So please take a look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr where your thoughts are most welcome.

Many thanks, have a great weekend.
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

sumantso

  • Guest
The website is written in British English, which since your Aussie makes sense, but I am not sure which version of English is preferred for a worldwide audience.

I personally prefer British English, and subconsciously have a better impression when someone uses it flawlessly.

Offline emailtooaj

I like this project and think it has potential. The one thing that seems unprofessional to me is the name itself. I would suggest using a naming service like http://www.namebase.com (there are many others). I would also recommend staying away from any and all cliches like "bit" for example. I would opt for a name that has nothing to do with cryptocurrency. Example: Ethereum, Ripple, Stellar, Graphene. These are all great names.

I'm not a big fan of the name either. Mainly because you will have a hard time to seem serious with French speakers.

I don't know how to make this comment and don't sound like a retarded teenager but ...

iIdentabit pronounce itself the same way as " i dans ta bite " which you can translate  from french by " i in your dick "

The equivalent thing would be like naming a french company something like "inyordik"

Any other french speakers over here who find the name no very suited for french pronunciation ?

Hahaha :)

But that's where they install the microchips! :P

Perhaps a naming schema in Esperanto would land a safe wording worldwide? :)

I already started on this naming thing in the last thread.. Something to do with badge I think would work great on a lot of levels. It fits in with something people understand.. it has poential for people to really build a personalized something out of it.. and saying 'what is your badgeID' or whatever it ends up being is universally understood.

Again.. my 2 brownie.pts.
I seriously like the Esperanto idea! Check this http://www.esperanto-panorama.net/vortaro/eoen.htm
Mono means money. Suggestions:
MonoID
IDMono
IdentMono
MonoIdent

IDMono even sounds like "the money".

Any problems with that Estaffan?  :D

I was going through this dictionary and found something that really resonated with me.

difini  =  define
 /diˈfini/
as in define yourself/itself.

Just throw an "i" in front of this and you'll get a pretty good name scheme... iDifini
You'll retain the "I.D." connection,
It's easy to pronounce though it's 4 syllables long,
and it also seems to lend to some "catchy" tag lines... " To securely privatize your public ID... iDifini" , "Have you iDifini?", "iDifini if any!"
 :D




Sound Editor of Beyondbitcoin Hangouts. Listen to latest here - https://beyondbitcoin.org support the Hangouts! BTS Tri-Fold Brochure https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15169.0.html
Tip BROWNIE.PTS to EMAILTOOAJ

Offline mint chocolate chip

Having memorableness the name is not. It has not stuck in my head at all despite typing it a few times... for the average Joe a long and complicated word is not something to exert energy trying to remember. Plus difficult words are mispelled regularly, making it even harder for a consumer to get to the correct website.

Looks like you are trying to hard to pick a name that will connect with your other name(s) of your planned businesses.

The website is written in British English, which since your Aussie makes sense, but I am not sure which version of English is preferred for a worldwide audience.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 03:14:20 pm by Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner! »

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Hi Folks

Re the name:

There was and still is good reason for the name. Whilst I am not shutting down the discussion I am asking that you refer to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr
 and comment on the reasoning presented, please don't mistakenly think the name was casual decision, the name, the logo, the color, the long game strategy for related brands, they were all contributors towards an intended business objective.

Re the ID in IDentabit, I agree that the capital D is an issue, the issue arises from the D drowning the adjacent I and hence we are left with Dentabit, sounds like a mouth guard doesn't it :-)

I have a meeting with some marketing folk this week and I will see what they say and I'll let you know, but I'd like to say thank you for the effort made debating the name and confirming a concern.

We all have our ways, it happens I am a strategic guy and consequently I am very thoughtful before making a decision, consequently I don't toss things into the ring because I am undecided. I do so to listen to opinions to ensure we haven't missed something.

I feel strongly that we all feel best when people are direct and consistent...I will do my best to be that way.

 +5% ... Thanks for the response.. this could have gone on for another week. :)

It's good to take this feedback to them.. I know that everything was well planned out ahead of time.

This is how things go in a forum.. with a click everyone has an opinion.. and that gives you some good data to work from. Just doesn't always make for good business decisions at times. :)

Keep up the good work!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline bitder

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Underwun,

It's obvious that a lot of thought and energy has gone into this venture. Good job!
You've identified an unmet business need/opportunity and have set out to address it with IDentabit. This already sets it apart from 99% of the other crypto projects. (Your business savy and experience is showing through...)

I did notice a couple of typos on the identabit.com website
  • In the Efficiency section: "Comparable block confirmation 600 > seconds" should be > 600 seconds
  • In the Issuance Efficiency section: "Block confirmation 600+ mins seconds rigid" should be 600+ seconds

Excited to see this project drive mass adoption.
wallet_account_set_approval delegate.bitder 1

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Hi Folks

Re the name:

There was and still is good reason for the name. Whilst I am not shutting down the discussion I am asking that you refer to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr
 and comment on the reasoning presented, please don't mistakenly think the name was casual decision, the name, the logo, the color, the long game strategy for related brands, they were all contributors towards an intended business objective.

Re the ID in IDentabit, I agree that the capital D is an issue, the issue arises from the D drowning the adjacent I and hence we are left with Dentabit, sounds like a mouth guard doesn't it :-)

I have a meeting with some marketing folk this week and I will see what they say and I'll let you know, but I'd like to say thank you for the effort made debating the name and confirming a concern.

We all have our ways, it happens I am a strategic guy and consequently I am very thoughtful before making a decision, consequently I don't toss things into the ring because I am undecided. I do so to listen to opinions to ensure we haven't missed something.

I feel strongly that we all feel best when people are direct and consistent...I will do my best to be that way.
+5%

Have you thought about a launching strategy like below (in chronological order). Circle, Ethereum and 21 were launched like that and they all got a ton of attention.

1. The coming soon stage: Puts out a name and the corporate identity (graphics) and the names and partners that are behind the project, maybe with a countdown to launch at some point.
[...building the excitement]
2. Putting out the website about as it is atm with the reasoning behind the project.
[...building the excitement]
3. Randomly / Over time putting out screen shots, controversial Media Articles, announcement of new partnerships.
3. Launching the blockchain along with the first use case / customer / bank integrating it (if possible) plus at the same time announcing the Remitabit project again with an emotional message of assisting the poorest. 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:18:40 pm by delulo »

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
Hi Folks

Re the name:

There was and still is good reason for the name. Whilst I am not shutting down the discussion I am asking that you refer to https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDPgdB9Ftm6TOOTPhk2ZzFQLMP2chYRXZsDo6nGWPEE/edit#heading=h.mmll6e7809dr
 and comment on the reasoning presented, please don't mistakenly think the name was casual decision, the name, the logo, the color, the long game strategy for related brands, they were all contributors towards an intended business objective.

Re the ID in IDentabit, I agree that the capital D is an issue, the issue arises from the D drowning the adjacent I and hence we are left with Dentabit, sounds like a mouth guard doesn't it :-)

I have a meeting with some marketing folk this week and I will see what they say and I'll let you know, but I'd like to say thank you for the effort made debating the name and confirming a concern.

We all have our ways, it happens I am a strategic guy and consequently I am very thoughtful before making a decision, consequently I don't toss things into the ring because I am undecided. I do so to listen to opinions to ensure we haven't missed something.

I feel strongly that we all feel best when people are direct and consistent...I will do my best to be that way.








« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 12:35:24 pm by underwun »
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...

Offline underwun

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 61
  • Life Matters
    • View Profile
Been waiting for that thread :)

Regarding the identabit.com website:

1. In the sliding pictures at the top:

- "A serious solution to an extraordinary opportunity" -> does that make sense? might be some fancy marketing language but there are no solutions to opportunities. Noted

- "The first identity based, decentralized identity based currency" ->  Should probably say: "The first identity based, decentralized currency" Noted

2. Almost at the bottom in the security section:

- You say: "Vulnerability to theft (high) / (low)". There was a quick reasoning with the other ratings. This seems a little unfounded to me.

Nice work  ;) , at this stage we are not disclosing how this achieved but we promise we have a unique method for preventing theft

Seems like the German forum forces got your back ;)

hi thank you for your constructive comments...details in bold

Noted indicates we will address.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 12:39:37 pm by underwun »
There's a reason for everything and if there isn't there should be...