voting of refund400k from 50M to 1.48M, so I delete my old post

[Samupaha]

On a side note , false development is no development at all . ( dilution and tons of AGS fund has funded a lot of things in 1.0 , and none of it was worth it because by the dev's own word ------1.0 was not usable to users . And graphene was paid by the developer's own dime. ) False development meaning development that just for "workers' sake" instead of those work that's really needed and will have lasting effect on the project instead of every work that has been paid and then be abandoned and move on to another new direction .

I really can't share this point of view.

Bitshares is something complitely new and we can be pretty much sure that it's impossible to get everything right at first try.

Succesful businesses aren't usually build easily. They need years of trials and errors to find out what works and what doesn't. So the formula for success is not to have a good idea but to have enough strength to endure fails after fails when trying to adjust the business to function as it should.

So do you think that Bitshares should have been abandoned when it become clear that 1.0 wasn't going to work?

How do you examine what works and what doesn't, if it's not allowed to make mistakes?

If Bitshares will become succesful some day, it will be because the developers didn't give up and tried new features again and again until they found the ones that work.

[Thom]

Markets love stability... that's one of the biggest reasons you see stock market gains when there is gridlock in Washington.  Gridlock = Stability, which gives everyone time to understand the rules and design systems around those rules.

BTS changes the rules and parameters so fast because the market cap isn't increasing, that it makes my head spin.  I'm not saying these changes are bad, and the best time to make changes is when valuation is low.  Hopefully we can find some sort of stability here in the next couple months, but with BM's track record (MAS, this new rate limited transaction thing, referral program restructuring) I doubt stability is coming this year.

Not to mention Crypto traders are idiot pump chasers... 90% don't care about what they are invested in as long as it keeps going up.  They just want to get rich quick and cash out to fiat.

 

[xeroc]

Markets love stability...

"Markets" also love Windows XP even though they could have a rolling-release Linux system

[lil_jay890]

Markets love stability... that's one of the biggest reasons you see stock market gains when there is gridlock in Washington.  Gridlock = Stability, which gives everyone time to understand the rules and design systems around those rules.

BTS changes the rules and parameters so fast because the market cap isn't increasing, that it makes my head spin.  I'm not saying these changes are bad, and the best time to make changes is when valuation is low.  Hopefully we can find some sort of stability here in the next couple months, but with BM's track record (MAS, this new rate limited transaction thing, referral program restructuring) I doubt stability is coming this year.

Not to mention Crypto traders are idiot pump chasers... 90% don't care about what they are invested in as long as it keeps going up.  They just want to get rich quick and cash out to fiat.

[Empirical1.2]

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

Actually BTS has grossly underperformed the market since dilution was introduced despite spending much more on development than 90% of our competitors and despite the quality of that development being among the best, when you take into account how much money many cryptos spent on POW during that time, BTS under-performance is even more remarkable.

Even competitors like NXT with poor initial distribution, unpopular POS and no dilution since we started diluting (& spent CNX money on Graphene) are worth just 20% less than BTS.

This does not prove dilution for development is negative, but perhaps that the current model of dilution is bad and/or that BM/CNX, while among the best developers are not the best at understanding what the blockchain market needs.

My impression is that some are upset that CNX has yet to deliver users/revenue/profit but constantly seeks to justify continued dilution to sustain relatively high cost development mostly in the areas they prefer while chastizing 'speculators' for not giving them the long term resources to continue down this road.

As you say a lot of the pieces of the puzzle are in place and personally I believe if we adopt a system that allows the network or a BTS fund to sell BitAssets, perhaps with a daily limit at 1-1, our fortunes could rapidly change.

While BM is pushing for max 5BTS/Sec dilution with this post http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/02/09/The-Currency-Distribution-Problem/

I think a lower but locked in max rate may be optimal, if CNX need more than that they will have to look to FBA's/Be more frugal/Raise the value of BTS. A lower max rate which is 'locked in' as much as possible may give the market more certainty, stability, confidence and trust that BTS isn't simply there to maintain CNX with $X per year regardless of the value they add to the share price or users they bring in. (I also like that if you google 'currency distribution' that blog post is a first page result, for me anyway.)

Personally I'm fairly interested in DECRED which attempts to allow more consensus on changes than BTC but locks in its supply structure via the DECRED constitution https://wiki.decred.org/Decred_Constitution which is what I advocated for BTS back in the day - https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10828.0.html. Also unlike BTC, 10% of the block subsidy goes to a development organisation
in order for it to be self funding. So we'll see how that does.
 

[Thom]

Why is it that I am the bad guy here painted with "divider"? This entire thread is down on efforts being made by so many, anti-progress is a common theme I see in this thread via ZERO dilution.

Not a single person that replied to my post addressed any of the substance in it, not a single point, rather the replies are all basically an ad hominem attack with a label of community divider. The language is indeed an issue, I find some of the meaning very difficult to discern. What is "Just do it" DSN, xeroc?  DO WHAT? Be explicit and stop with the subliminal innuendo.

I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community,...

It wasn't I who raised the issue of nationality, please, get your facts straight. Read MY post again.

My question was why is anyone making an issue about dilution right now? Rather than deal with that question, go ahead, label the one asking it a divider and then you can avoid addressing the question. That doesn't fly in a rational discussion. I can only conclude this isn't a rational discussion.

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

We (the western parts of the community) mean no harm to anyone, lets settle the issues gently and find a solution .. there are many ways to do so, we mostly need people like you to connect both languaes which is our biggest issue.

In contrast to ethereum, we already have a chinese community eagerly waiting to get involved. Lets just do it!

[Empirical1.2]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

Daniel pushed hard for bringing privacy to the front of the development que, he believes it will attract a lot of users and hopefully pull BTS ahead of DASH. Obviously Stealth was privately funded, but it gets released soon, so lets see if he's right this time...

My "gut" tells me that crypto-diehards are looking for an easy to use ANONYMOUS currency and those of us that are freedom loving actually want and need this.  Our current lack of privacy is a turnoff to many in the crypto and banking world.

If we have the best of breed privacy then it will put us well ahead of the competition.  Hopefully helping pull us up to Dash.

It is a much needed feature, but I fail to see it bringing in a ton of new users. Ironically, the anonymous technology he is implementing will only be "the best of breed" for a matter of months. Zerocash (Xcash) and RingCT (Monero) will be superior.

I still think Daniel was right when he claimed MAS was the way forward for Bitshares. People in the cryptocurrency community have already made up their minds one way or another about Bitshares. Bitshares needs features that pull in outsiders into the ecosystem, and MAS is one of the best ideas I have ever heard to do so.

I had full faith in Daniel's ability to lead Bitshares to the promised land. However, now that he has retreated after being repeatedly, harshly, and constantly harassed, and let you guys "run Bitshares"... I fear the worst. Bitshares as-is is going no where. It is a dead end that will end in tears. Development and dilution must continue for the time being, or Bitshares is certain to die a slow death. All of this crying about dilution is ridiculously short sided. If you guys don't figure out how to properly spend the dilution soon, it will all end in tears anyways.

I think privacy has value too, especially in hopefully allowing third party developers to create more 'grey area' FBA's on the platform.
However yes from what I gather it won't be best of breed, will charge 10x more than competitors and there is very little to use it with atm so I certainly wouldn't have put it first in the development que. (Edit: Though given the new money on Polo, wouldn't be surprised if BTS gets another little price bump pre release.)

I know you're a fan of MAS but I'm not, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, I would say so someone can prove me wrong in future, 'MAS resembling any of its current description will not be popular/successful'. I think I have enough evidence from how hard it is for a group of shareholder to manage a DAC that they will be unable to effectively risk assess, fraud prevent or claim validate to any acceptable degree in a decentralized manner. 

Personally I believe BTS will be built (& could be funded) on the back of BitAssets. So that's my number 1 development priority. Though I'm not a fan of MAKER. I think the system of requiring an independent short and long to meet in each market makes it very hard to maintain a tight liquid commercially viable peg. Instead I'm a fan of recently floated ideas like using the reserve pool or a BTS Bond. I think BTS is the party that benefits the most from the network effect and adoption of BTS via Smartcoins so their efforts and funds and are best spent providing or incentivizing additional collateral.

NO Fear, FULL faith

when stuff is ready we the bts comunitty should give bts his first push

its so easy if each of us take 5 family members in, next week go for 5 friends and the next week go for 5 bussines.

yeah its a interest conflict, comunity never ever take BTS .... why must they promote ? if coders without delegate no code, why the fuck comunitty must do nothing without delegate ?

I RARELY recommend anything but so many people were asking me what's the next Bitcoin because I did very well off that in 13. I went on a limb and suggested BTSX. It was heading for a billion dollar valuation and had increasing network effect in China and low waste, to the point it could have even challenged BTC purely from a currency standpoint. I had no way of knowing the founders didn't understand the fundamentals of crypto and why adding dilution, esp. variable dilution was a massive value destroyer. So it damaged my reputation and I won't be doing it again anytime soon, especially because I think for all their talent they still don't understand the fundamentals of certainty, stability, predictability and trust which must form the backbone of decentralized endeavours. (Though one of Daniel's latest blog posts is a step in that direction... http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/02/09/The-Currency-Distribution-Problem/ )

[chryspano]

comunity never ever take BTS .... why must they promote ? if coders without delegate no code, why the fuck comunitty must do nothing without delegate ?

Some roles are more important than others, without enought coders we would have at most a crude CLI version, good luck to the community trying to promote that!

Coders and maybe some other roles make everything 100x easier to promote and communicate, they are the engine and without an engine a car is useless, it's one thing to conserve some fuel at the midle of the crypto-race and it's another thing to completly stop the engine claiming that this way you can win the crypto-race.


 Also to what lil-jay said

[lil_jay890]

NO Fear, FULL faith

when stuff is ready we the bts comunitty should give bts his first push

its so easy if each of us take 5 family members in, next week go for 5 friends and the next week go for 5 bussines.

yeah its a interest conflict, comunity never ever take BTS .... why must they promote ? if coders without delegate no code, why the fuck comunitty must do nothing without delegate ?

Bts is still way too speculative, volatile, and expensive to get into.  Ive told family members about spec investments before and found out that if thing don't go right, it really puts a lot of stress and awkwardness on the relationship.

My advise, get rich yourself and then give to your family. Don't have them risk their money, because the consequences of it not working out is far worse than the reward of a success.

[infovortice2013]

NO Fear, FULL faith

when stuff is ready we the bts comunitty should give bts his first push

its so easy if each of us take 5 family members in, next week go for 5 friends and the next week go for 5 bussines.

yeah its a interest conflict, comunity never ever take BTS .... why must they promote ? if coders without delegate no code, why the fuck comunitty must do nothing without delegate ?

[CoinHoarder]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

Daniel pushed hard for bringing privacy to the front of the development que, he believes it will attract a lot of users and hopefully pull BTS ahead of DASH. Obviously Stealth was privately funded, but it gets released soon, so lets see if he's right this time...

My "gut" tells me that crypto-diehards are looking for an easy to use ANONYMOUS currency and those of us that are freedom loving actually want and need this.  Our current lack of privacy is a turnoff to many in the crypto and banking world.

If we have the best of breed privacy then it will put us well ahead of the competition.  Hopefully helping pull us up to Dash.

It is a much needed feature, but I fail to see it bringing in a ton of new users. Ironically, the anonymous technology he is implementing will only be "the best of breed" for a matter of months. Zerocash (Xcash) and RingCT (Monero) will be superior.

I still think Daniel was right when he claimed MAS was the way forward for Bitshares. People in the cryptocurrency community have already made up their minds one way or another about Bitshares. Bitshares needs features that pull in outsiders into the ecosystem, and MAS is one of the best ideas I have ever heard to do so.

I had full faith in Daniel's ability to lead Bitshares to the promised land. However, now that he has retreated after being repeatedly, harshly, and constantly harassed, and let you guys "run Bitshares"... I fear the worst. Bitshares as-is is going no where. It is a dead end that will end in tears. Development and dilution must continue for the time being, or Bitshares is certain to die a slow death. All of this crying about dilution is ridiculously short sided. If you guys don't figure out how to properly spend the dilution soon, it will all end in tears anyways.

[cass]

One team - one fight !

[cube]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

We (the western parts of the community) mean no harm to anyone, lets settle the issues gently and find a solution .. there are many ways to do so, we mostly need people like you to connect both languaes which is our biggest issue.

In contrast to ethereum, we already have a chinese community eagerly waiting to get involved. Lets just do it!

  for attempting to unite rather than divide the community. 

Unite, we prosper. Divide, we fall.

[Empirical1.2]

Daniel has presented the inflation argument as an either/or argument.

Perhaps BitShares should decide once and for all whether it wants no inflation or maximum inflation (5 BTS/sec). Once the decision is made we can remove the inflation debate from the political discussion and move forward based upon this outcome. If a decision for maximum inflation is made then we can debate over what should be funded and who should get it. Either way the sell pressure from the inflation would be baked into the price and would no longer be relevant to the discussion.

http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2016/02/09/The-Currency-Distribution-Problem/

He'd prefer max inflation obviously

Rather than adjusting the supply, we could just commit to the maximum level of inflation and then allocate it as best as we can. This way any unexpected reductions in inflation can boost the price rather than fear, uncertainty, and doubt every time we vote for something.

However if shareholders are unhappy with the current amount of development, I think there is also the third option of lowering the max dilution of 5BTS/sec This would limit the amount BTS could develop but may make the people that are supporting alt/baozi more comfortable that BTS is not being wasteful even if they are not paying attention to every worker proposal.

[xeroc]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

We (the western parts of the community) mean no harm to anyone, lets settle the issues gently and find a solution .. there are many ways to do so, we mostly need people like you to connect both languaes which is our biggest issue.

In contrast to ethereum, we already have a chinese community eagerly waiting to get involved. Lets just do it!

[Empirical1.2]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

Daniel pushed hard for bringing privacy to the front of the development que, he believes it will attract a lot of users and hopefully pull BTS ahead of DASH. Obviously Stealth was privately funded, but it gets released soon, so lets see if he's right this time...

My "gut" tells me that crypto-diehards are looking for an easy to use ANONYMOUS currency and those of us that are freedom loving actually want and need this.  Our current lack of privacy is a turnoff to many in the crypto and banking world.

If we have the best of breed privacy then it will put us well ahead of the competition.  Hopefully helping pull us up to Dash.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

  do it!!!

[Musewhale]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

thank you for playing so many words to explain

read this page replies, I most want to say is: please do not use China, the United States, Europe to divide our community, and should be the point of view A, B, C. We came here not because of the geographical location, but for some ideals and goals.

[Thom]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

I'd say you haven't paid much attention to the volitile price of Bitcoins then. When the price was high, sure looked like funding was secured for at least a couple of years. After the bottom fellv out of the market it was an entirely different story. That's what happened. I'm definitely NOT saying money was spent furgally, there were plenty of bad decisions and expenditures IMO.

Why all the complaining right now at this point? Look at all the innovative ideas coming forth, look at our rising marketcap. I think you really need to think about the reason for any dilution and not just dogmatic economic theory. Also consider that BM & the dev staff of BitShares 1.0 could have walked away or popped up under a new name to run "another" scam pump & dump, but instead they regrouped, found another plan of attack and the means to put food on the table while developing graphine, which was rolled out with FAR less problems than 1.0 was.

I'm not excusing the blunders and mistakes, but I also am not going to give up right when I start to see the fruits of all the labor start to pay off. You have efforts like:

1) BitShares mobil wallet and OpenPOS that kencode and chris4210 are doing
2) Stealth GUI additions and FBA about to be released
3) Abit's rate limiting enhancements to implement FREE transactions
4) Numerous GUI improvements nearly every single week
5) Xeroc's docs - growing day by day

It's taken quite awhile, but I'm finally beginning to see some real community enthusiasm. Why you bring up this old issue and threaten to stop all this momentum and progress, just as we begin to see marketcap impact? It makes little sense.

If you 're so certain the small amount of dilution we're currently spending to get all this accomplished will be worse than taking the hard-line, absolute zero dilution position, then show us your data that makes your case. Stop claiming you know it will hurt our rep AND marketcap despite the evidence to the contrary that others can dilute FAR more and grow. Show us the numbers that prove your point and we will listen.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I think this depends on the point of view. The ones who say "Dilution" try thinking about this. Bitcoin, Ethereum and every single coin has it at the moment. Some in form of PoW. You only need to see this as PoW, because if you think about it, it is. Instead of the work being done is mining blocks, the work is development and improvement of our own blockchain with people who can actually code.

Bitcoin, PoW, dilution via miners.
BitShares, in a sense, PoW too because dilution is done via worker proposals, real work improving the blockchain for the better.

So instead of having random people mining, you have coders with skills to improve the blockchain. Imo it's much more fair because you have actual job and improvement done, plus everyone can vote if they want it or not.

If you look at it that way, our model is better assuming it can maintain the same level of security. It's just a matter of perception. The problem here is knowing when and if worker proposals and the job done to improve the blockchain is worth the "dilution" it caused.

Well stated comparison there Akedo.. 

[Akado]

I think this depends on the point of view. The ones who say "Dilution" try thinking about this. Bitcoin, Ethereum and every single coin has it at the moment. Some in form of PoW. You only need to see this as PoW, because if you think about it, it is. Instead of the work being done is mining blocks, the work is development and improvement of our own blockchain with people who can actually code.

Bitcoin, PoW, dilution via miners.
BitShares, in a sense, PoW too because dilution is done via worker proposals, real work improving the blockchain for the better.

So instead of having random people mining, you have coders with skills to improve the blockchain. Imo it's much more fair because you have actual job and improvement done, plus everyone can vote if they want it or not.

If you look at it that way, our model is better assuming it can maintain the same level of security. It's just a matter of perception. The problem here is knowing when and if worker proposals and the job done to improve the blockchain is worth the "dilution" it caused.

[CryptoPrometheus]

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Nothing to add...
Thanks for the reminder, will give it a try ..

@cass,

Your work is extremely valuable to BitShares, and many people know this.

Right now, it is very difficult to convince more people to care enough to vote. This has nothing to do with you, and it does not take away from the fact that BitShares would be much worse off if you were not here.

If I had my way, I would vote for you (and many other people) to get 3x as much BTS for your efforts. Unfortunately, we have a situation where different cultures have different ideas about when and how people should be paid for their work. If we are lucky, these differences will make BitShares stronger in the end, even though they tend to create friction in the short term.

P.S. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about how the world should work, but with BitShares some people's opinions are weighted more heavily than others. This is the most fair system that has ever been created, IMO.

All people are Not equal. Sure, perhaps all people should have equal opportunities, etc, but each person has to earn their place at the table based on the actions they take. In this case, I am referring to the BTS that they have chosen to buy, sell, or hold.

If some people choose to vote based on long term strategies, that is their own decision to make. Likewise, some some might choose to vote with short term gains in mind. Most people (including myself) will never have the full picture about what the best strategies would, should, or could be. So all we can hope for is that people keep caring enough to speak their opinion.

The VERY WORST thing that could ever happen to BitShares, IMO, is that people stop caring enough to vote. Even if everybody is pissed off at each other all the time, as long as the robust discussions continue then we are moving in the right direction!

[abit]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

I'd like to see more Chinese developers too.

Maybe there are just clearing the playing field to introduce their own Chinese developers?

Lot easier to do that when everyone else has given up.

No need to cross fingers or hope and pray when you know how the 'magic' trick works right?

I certainly hope that is not the case here, and that this is just a matter of a huge amount of misrepresented propaganda making it's way through eastern channels.

It's said that ETH attracted a lot of developers and capitals, but BitShares drove away a lot.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

I'd like to see more Chinese developers too.

Maybe there are just clearing the playing field to introduce their own Chinese developers?

Lot easier to do that when everyone else has given up.

No need to cross fingers or hope and pray when you know how the 'magic' trick works right?

I certainly hope that is not the case here, and that this is just a matter of a huge amount of misrepresented propaganda making it's way through eastern channels.

[bytemaster]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Look at it another way, you want the programmer to only get paid *if* the blockchain is a success, but success is not something the programmer can control.  A programmer can only control whether or not their CODE works and is delivered on time.

Would you take a job where you only get paid if your co-workers do their job?

[gamey]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Where are the Chinese developers?  What makes it ok to constantly scream that people are not doing something for you free, but then do little development from what I have heard? 

US job market is going great right now, real developers are rare. There are tons of shitty developers who decided to get into it because it pays well.  The type of developer needed for blockchain type work is one of these "rare" developers.  They would have to be screwed up socially in a very very strange way, have a criminal records, or unwilling to relocate etc to not be able to get a job. You are so clueless to think guys who can fix BItShares couldn't find a good job.  You are on a different planet.

If you are going to insult someone, insult Dan Larimer who made all the decisions unilaterally but with input.  I don't know why you think developers owe you more. It makes more sense for them to get a job, then wait and invest their money in BTS or not.

If someone was to "take accountability" and only be paid if the marketcap doubled, how do they know what thousands of quasi-irrational people are going to do ? It would be foolish to take such a deal without asking to be paid far FAAARRRR above market rates when the market cap doubles. No one would like that either.

I am not commenting on the past, but startups can blow through cash like crazy.  That is not going on currently.  If you want to win, you need to advance. Not sit around fingers cross hoping and praying for some magic to occur.

[Pheonike]

This is indeed a funny picture . Instead of building a house like the normal way on the ground , workers lift the house up and hold it up , and the house will be destroyed and hit the ground the hard way once the workers decided to leave .  Workers don't sign up for building the house on the ground , they sign up for holding the house in the air .  They're working really hard to hold the house in the air .

Tell me this is the kind of house that you'll feel comfortable to pay for .

You guys even interpret cartoon wrong. The is showing the workers are the foundation to build on. I guess the don't build houses with a foundation in China, that's why everything's falls apart so much over there.

[pc]

This is indeed a funny picture . Instead of building a house like the normal way on the ground , workers lift the house up and hold it up , and the house will be destroyed and hit the ground the hard way once the workers decided to leave .  Workers don't sign up for building the house on the ground , they sign up for holding the house in the air .  They're working really hard to hold the house in the air .

You're misunderstanding. They're not holding the house up, they're carrying the stones to the building site.

[cass]

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Nothing to add...
Thanks for the reminder, will give it a try .. 

[chryspano]

I find funny only the sophistry you used, btw your "no dilution at all costs" dogma is based on sophistry too. If you guys want to transform BTS in to another shitcoin just fork it and do whatever you want, you can hard code no "dilution for 17634526 years and start waiting for suckers to do all the hard work for free, it's hard to find those suckers right now but I'm sure all they are waiting for to show up in thousands is a fork.

It seems that I always forget the "succes" of pump and dump shitcoins lite dogecoin, what YOU forget is that dogecoin has inflation too, Ethereum has HUGE inflation too. But no more talks, we will surpas them all! we will do the unthinkable! we will do absolutly NOTHING and our marketcap will RISE because we know for sure that there are too many idiots out there that would buy another useless shitcoin! Not?
 
/rambling   

[Musewhale]

You guys are so impatient to get facai. 

[btswildpig]

This is indeed a funny picture . Instead of building a house like the normal way on the ground , workers lift the house up and hold it up , and the house will be destroyed and hit the ground the hard way once the workers decided to leave .  Workers don't sign up for building the house on the ground , they sign up for holding the house in the air .  They're working really hard to hold the house in the air .

Tell me this is the kind of house that you'll feel comfortable to pay for .

[chryspano]

[deer]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Basically you're asking a programmer to do a CEO's work. Why not look for a better CEO? Maybe you can do the job? For free?

you have very funny logical.
Why I should do this？it ' s not me begging for bts from shareholders here.

做得到这个效果就给钱，没人做得到那就别整些有用没有的东西来稀释股东的bts。这么简单的道理那么久还没想明白？

[deer]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Basically you're asking a programmer to do a CEO's work. Why not look for a better CEO? Maybe you can do the job? For free?

you have very funny logical.
Why I should do this？it ' s not me begging for bts from shareholders here.

[abit]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

Basically you're asking a programmer to do a CEO's work. Why not look for a better CEO? Maybe you can do the job? For free?

[deer]

Show me at least one worker who take responsibility for the shareholder,please.
proposal like:"I will develop a function,one year after this function launch,the market cap will be twice to now,or I won't get any bts as payment.

no one now  are willing to  take this responsibility, right.They just happy to to see shareholder surffer and grad USD for themselves.

"I have written so many many document! BTS will go to die without our work!just give me 100K bts a day! "(So what?We have only 10% left  of our investment thanks to your "hard work" since 2014 )

I could have a high pay job outside! (So again,why are you still here?Strongly doubt that you can get a serious job outside.)

Somebody still think these amazing inflation work can raise the market cap  base on 2013-2016,huh,wow.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

I thought that was the exact assurance when BM introduced the dilution : If shareholders do not like the inflation rate , they can vote against it .

On a side note , false development is no development at all . ( dilution and tons of AGS fund has funded a lot of things in 1.0 , and none of it was worth it because by the dev's own word ------1.0 was not usable to users . And graphene was paid by the developer's own dime. ) False development meaning development that just for "workers' sake" instead of those work that's really needed and will have lasting effect on the project instead of every work that has been paid and then be abandoned and move on to another new direction .

I guess he has just seen false development funded by dilution too much .

But then again , the doubt is bound to happen after failing to see result generated from dilution after one year whose effect has been devastating on the marketcap . "Marketcap will rise if you let us dilute and keep developing" , which was also the only reason that the stakeholders allowed changing the allocation schedule and ruined the reputation of BitShares in the first place . So ........ Is this objection really that surprising to you ?

Soooo the logical conclusion to this line of rational is Bitshares Workers will get no support and therefore will not make any progress in new features, fixes, or updates. If we just keep things the way they are and no work is ever done on Bitshares.. it will go up thanks to no dilution!

I think the market cap we have now is all you can ever expect it to reach and the only way to go from here is down if this is the grand plan.

No innovation = growth huh? ... just.. wow.

[tonyk]

I would really like to hear for one worker-proposal or new feature the inflation-phobics would be willing to pay for.

I only hope that the stealth features will make more votes and reason available.

If you consider me one such person - I will vote somewhat similar to jonybitcoin's current vote. Minus the blockchain maintenance worker - not because I do not think that worker is needed. I just think he is overcharging us...like 2x.

opps sorry and definitely minus those UI coordinator/Managers...definitely not for those.

[chryspano]

I would really like to hear for one worker-proposal or new feature the inflation-phobics would be willing to pay for.

I only hope that the stealth features will make more votes and reason available.

[clayop]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

I thought that was the exact assurance when BM introduced the dilution : If shareholders do not like the inflation rate , they can vote against it .

On a side note , false development is no development at all . ( dilution and tons of AGS fund has funded a lot of things in 1.0 , and none of it was worth it because by the dev's own word ------1.0 was not usable to users . And graphene was paid by the developer's own dime. ) False development meaning development that just for "workers' sake" instead of those work that's really needed and will have lasting effect on the project instead of every work that has been paid and then be abandoned and move on to another new direction .

I guess he has just seen false development funded by dilution too much .

But then again , the doubt is bound to happen after failing to see result generated from dilution after one year whose effect has been devastating on the marketcap . "Marketcap will rise if you let us dilute and keep developing" , which was also the only reason that the stakeholders allowed changing the allocation schedule and ruined the reputation of BitShares in the first place . So ........ Is this objection really that surprising to you ?

This tells a lot

[btswildpig]

dilution after one year whose effect has been devastating on the marketcap . "Marketcap will rise if you let us dilute and keep developing" , which was also the only reason that the stakeholders allowed changing the allocation schedule and ruined the reputation of BitShares in the first place . So ........ Is this objection really that surprising to you ?

BitShares has been a top10 cryptocurrency practically since coinmarketcap started (when it was PTS).

BitShares is the ONLY global source for smartcoins like bitUSD, CNY, etc.

BitShares has less dilution than the bitcoin and Ethereum.

The market cap of BitShares is half of that it needs to be in order to be the first and only profitable DAC on Earth.

BitShares, which has never been hacked, has an amazing reputation.

Every coin's marketcap got destroyed last year, not just BitShares'.  A rising tide lifts all boats.  A falling tide drops us all.

Yeah, the team could have spent their finding better, but Ethereum admittedly wasted waaaaaaaay more money and, sure, it might have hurt their "reputation" but it certainly had no affect on their marketcap, and after all, what do you really care about more?

"reputation"

or

"marketcap"

Would you be crying like this if our marketcap was half a billion like Ethereum's?

Well then stop lying to the community saying that you care about our "reputation" then, and be an honest man and say that you wish that you had more money through a higher market cap like Ethereum who dilutes waaaaay more than we do, and was waaaaaaaaay more reckless with their funding.

The success of Ethereum scientifically and economically proves that neither dillution or dumb money moves affect the marketcap of a coin as much as having a free open source community positively sharing their knowledge.

Didn't you heard ? Ethereum is controlled by the same people in wallstreet who try to enslave us (I must have heard that somewhere around here) . So ..... if BTS is not controlled by the same people in wallstreet , you can't really compare the two in the same condition .

[freedom]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

No one likes to dilute, that's why so many people support alt

[tonyk]

I thought that was the exact assurance when BM introduced the dilution : If shareholders do not like the inflation rate , they can vote against it .

On a side note , false development is no development at all . ( dilution and tons of AGS fund has funded a lot of things in 1.0 , and none of it was worth it because by the dev's own word ------1.0 was not usable to users . And graphene was paid by the developer's own dime. ) False development meaning development that just for "workers' sake" instead of those work that's really needed and will have lasting effect on the project instead of every work that has been paid and then be abandoned and move on to another new direction .

I guess he has just seen false development funded by dilution too much .

But then again , the doubt is bound to happen after failing to see result generated from dilution after one year whose effect has been devastating on the marketcap . "Marketcap will rise if you let us dilute and keep developing" , which was also the only reason that the stakeholders allowed changing the allocation schedule and ruined the reputation of BitShares in the first place . So ........ Is this objection really that surprising to you ?

well explained, imho. + 1

It is not like you try to put it Xeroc (stan and BM) - attempt to stop development...it is an attempt to stop digging ditches for the sake of digging ditches, cause you are good at digging ditches. Well you might be the best ditch diggers but if BTS does not need that particular ditch, it is just diluting with your pay for an useless ditch. [do not mean your work in particular xeroc; just constant mindless dilution for whatever comes to mind]

[btswildpig]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

I thought that was the exact assurance when BM introduced the dilution : If shareholders do not like the inflation rate , they can vote against it .

On a side note , false development is no development at all . ( dilution and tons of AGS fund has funded a lot of things in 1.0 , and none of it was worth it because by the dev's own word ------1.0 was not usable to users . And graphene was paid by the developer's own dime. ) False development meaning development that just for "workers' sake" instead of those work that's really needed and will have lasting effect on the project instead of every work that has been paid and then be abandoned and move on to another new direction .

I guess he has just seen false development funded by dilution too much .

But then again , the doubt is bound to happen after failing to see result generated from dilution after one year whose effect has been devastating on the marketcap . "Marketcap will rise if you let us dilute and keep developing" , which was also the only reason that the stakeholders allowed changing the allocation schedule and ruined the reputation of BitShares in the first place . So ........ Is this objection really that surprising to you ?

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

I am curious... was this posted AFTER listening to yesterdays hangout? Or just another random posting about dilution?

You do realize that our market cap went up higher than it has since November yesterday... and you are now coming here going on about shame.. it makes little sense.

So I am wondering if this was an intentional slam against what @bytemaster said yesterday.. or just random ranting with little to no correlation with how we are actually now starting to do BETTER in Bitshares WITH the Workers that are working.

[BTSdac]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

the information I get :
btser that oppose dilution proxy to baozi ,
it is reasonable , many of them do not know code , so they really does not know what the developer do , so they just consider the result (price )
 though many people oppose, 1.14.17; 1.14.16; 1.14.30 are getting paid,
because others saw the really works developer do , like UI developing ,   
though some oppose ,most of btser saw the hard works , so they can get paid
so I think :
I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

[Musewhale]

I have been wondering, why the AGS funds so soon  dry up, that's a big sum of money. I thought he would be able to support three or four years.

[BTSdac]

So atm 1.14.17; 1.14.16; 1.14.30 are not getting paid? Meaning they can stop working at any time?

1.14.17; 1.14.16; 1.14.30 are getting paid

[Akado]

So atm 1.14.17; 1.14.16; 1.14.30 are not getting paid? Meaning they can stop working at any time?

[xeroc]

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

then please explain to me what alt / baozi is doing just now. I certainly does not recognize any value brought to the ecosystem.

If this goes on .. and more shareholders support him .. he could essential force the network to stand still in development ..

[BTSdac]

are you shame？
think about many people do many thing for bts , but never ask to pay one bts ,  and also many investor lose their money by investing bts
are you shame？

So you're sitting there complaining about people not working for free to make you rich?

Are YOU shame?

please notice what I say

why not after you do good effort and wait btser to vote . I think if you do really useful work to bts, they must vote support to your worker.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

If we were baking a cake, you would be tasting it in the mixing bowl. Either help to bake, wait patiently or try a different recipe.

 

We need makers not fakers.

[Zapply]

Dogecoin?
Dogecoin is dead! Enjoy the pumbs and dumps while they last! Shitcoins are pumped and dumped everyday.

If you only care about short term then you are probably right!




http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kingdom-enclava-smallest-country-europe-adopts-dogecoin-national-currency-1500415

[chryspano]

look at the market depth , I'm not only talking about the price .

Even at its low point , Dogecoin has really deep market depth . That's the opposite sign of being dead .

I agree that dogecoin is doing much better right now, but long term I insist that it's dead. If i had to choose a crypto and have those funds locked for 3-5 years, I would definetly choose BTS with workers and inflation instead of BTS with no workers and zero inflation or dogecoin. 

[btswildpig]

What exactly are you proposing to do? to stop every develpment and worker because you have inflation-phobia? Yes, lets wait a few years doing nothing, I'm sure the price will skyrocket that way!

Your "sure" is right on some level . Dogecoin has shown you .

Dogecoin?
Dogecoin is dead! Enjoy the pumbs and dumps while they last! Shitcoins are pumped and dumped everyday.

If you only care about short term then you are probably right!

look at the market depth , I'm not only talking about the price .

Even at its low point , Dogecoin has really deep market depth . That's the opposite sign of being dead .

[Musewhale]

Yes

you are correct

you are absolutely right

I am shame
we are shame
BitShares community is shame

Therefore you must sell your BTS
Now you must sell your BTS
Because we are shame, you must sell all your BTS right now, right now, today

thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into
thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into
thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into
thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into
thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into
thanks to Ethereum, there is now high volume for you to sell into

Now the time is October 20, 2014
i like it, how delicious 

[Ben Mason]

If we were baking a cake, you would be tasting it in the mixing bowl. Either help to bake, wait patiently or try a different recipe.

[chryspano]

What exactly are you proposing to do? to stop every develpment and worker because you have inflation-phobia? Yes, lets wait a few years doing nothing, I'm sure the price will skyrocket that way!

Your "sure" is right on some level . Dogecoin has shown you .

Dogecoin?
Dogecoin is dead! Enjoy the pumbs and dumps while they last! Shitcoins are pumped and dumped everyday.

If you only care about short term then you are probably right!

[btswildpig]

What exactly are you proposing to do? to stop every develpment and worker because you have inflation-phobia? Yes, lets wait a few years doing nothing, I'm sure the price will skyrocket that way!

Your "sure" is right on some level . Dogecoin has shown you .

[chryspano]

What exactly are you proposing to do? to stop every develpment and worker because you have inflation-phobia? Yes, lets wait a few years doing nothing, I'm sure the price will skyrocket that way!

[woolcii]

nice good ＋5%

[btswildpig]

and they made the fastest blockchain on earth...one that even play thought was worth it to integrate.  so to me it seems to have worked out pretty well.  I guess im just happy to see after 2 years we have largely solved bitcoins (and nearly EVERY other crypto's) tx speed and scalability (and did i mention the fastest blockchain on earth?)
to me that is netter than paying people to just dig holes

hmm , one of the hole digger of Bitcoin was someone I knew . He has promoted Bitcoin in ways that the delegates of BitShares has never done  . So you tell me miners just dig holes ? (assuming it's miners of Bitcoin you're referring to )

[btswildpig]

and they made the fastest blockchain on earth...one that even play thought was worth it to integrate.  so to me it seems to have worked out pretty well.  I guess im just happy to see after 2 years we have largely solved bitcoins (and nearly EVERY other crypto's) tx speed and scalability (and did i mention the fastest blockchain on earth?)
to me that is netter than paying people to just dig holes

aha , they specifically told us that graphene was not paid by the very dilution that has killed bitshares' marketcap . Graphene was developed by their own dime .

[fuzzy]

and they made the fastest blockchain on earth...one that even play thought was worth it to integrate.  so to me it seems to have worked out pretty well.  I guess im just happy to see after 2 years we have largely solved bitcoins (and nearly EVERY other crypto's) tx speed and scalability (and did i mention the fastest blockchain on earth?)
to me that is netter than paying people to just dig holes

[btswildpig]

are you shame？
think about many people do many thing for bts , but never ask to pay one bts ,  and also many investor lose their money by investing bts
are you shame？

So you're sitting there complaining about people not working for free to make you rich?

Are YOU shame?

how on earth do you know such work would make him rich ?
I've heard this argument before , right after the merger -------  In order to make everybody rich , you need to pay us to keep working .

And .... here we go .

[pc]

are you shame？
think about many people do many thing for bts , but never ask to pay one bts ,  and also many investor lose their money by investing bts
are you shame？

So you're sitting there complaining about people not working for free to make you rich?

Are YOU shame?

[Musewhale]

Important things are to be repeated for 3 times 

[Moon]

Developers do not mind these

[sudo]

what the f…………………………………………

[BTSdac]

are you shame？
think about many people do many thing for bts , but never ask to pay one bts ,  and also many investor lose their money by investing bts
are you shame？

[BTSdac]

refund400k (1.14.0)
Oct 20 '15 — Dec 31 '35   init0
-   148,052,019

voting of refund400k  from 50M to 1.48M,  so I delete my old post