Quote from: tonyk on December 25, 2015, 07:38:51 am

their logic goes like this.... if I build a better looking house on your land I can claim the land as mine. After all they claimed a whole continent as 'theirs' following this tactic, what are a feature or two on BTS.

CLI users are (and always will be) a very small fraction of Bitshares' user base. Sorry, but you are not that important. It is more important that the masses be able to use said feature than you get "robbed" of it. Anyways, the appreciation of the value of the BTS token, if we are able to further adoption, will in effect remedy the "profit" you could of made from Stealth transfers (or any feature for that matter.) Adoption has always been the end game goal for Bitshares- if it is widely adopted everyone wins, regardless of who owns X, Y or Z feature. Making Stealth transfers available to the masses rather than just CLI users is a good step in that direction. It will take many more steps, but every step is worth taking.

You guys should of realized early on that Bytemaster will heavily influence the direction the Bitshares project will take. If you don't like that, then please just sell your stake and go somewhere else because your negativity is toxic to the community.

  - The community is way more tolerant than it needs to be IMHO.  It's like people coming into your home and calling you a bum and your wife a whore...and screaming FREE SPEECH when you tell them to STFU and get out. 

(my Christmas message.  )

Quote from: tonyk on December 12, 2015, 12:42:55 am

Quote from: bytemaster on December 12, 2015, 12:27:48 am

Quote from: tonyk on December 12, 2015, 12:17:16 am

Quote from: onceuponatime on December 12, 2015, 12:14:16 am

Quote from: tonyk on December 12, 2015, 12:11:12 am

Nice.

but then again why is this voting... for only after "the stealth non-sense is implemented"?


0. Stealth
1. Bond Market (Poloniex Style Lending)
2. Prediction Market (Auger Style)
3. Ethereum (or something similar) VM integration
4. Liquidity Incentivisation
5. Gambling Systems

Just calling it "nonsense" doesn't make it so. Please present an argument.

Well it is as sensible as the rest of them.
Why is it more sensible (deserves special treatment, in your mind)?

It deserves special treatment because @onceuponatime has already been grandfathered in.  I don't want to take the deal he earned and auction off his profits.  Also, he was planing to pay in fiat which is much appreciated.  Furthermore, I think his plan is further developed than some of the others.   

Unfortunately this is my take on the whole issue as well....the main difference being someone paying in cash....seeing said cash clouds any other reasonable judgment.

The other unfortunate fact is even with his great generosity , love for the project and willingness to take a huge risk for BTS .... he is sadly lacking the ability [actually stubbornly refusing to do so] to properly judge what is best of his beloved (his and mine) project.

It is true that I lack many of the skills that you and others might have in this modern age and on this Forum. This is because I am probably much older than you and did my schooling before there were computers. There weren't even calculators when I went to school!

That doesn't mean that I lack common sense or discernment and discrimination. I'm sure that I have spent more time living on the streets than either you or even Martin 38PTSwarrior. I have traveled and lived in dozens of countries. I have degrees in Business Management and Economics and have worked (before the smell got too bad) as a special investigator for a Federal Government. I have slept under bridges and I have slept in palaces.

I think that I am as good a judge of character as anyone on this Forum. And I invest in people.

Perhaps your famous and cutting edge cynicism could be enhanced by a dash of Humility?

 .  As I've told my son, it's nice to be smart...but character trumps intellect IMHO.

Please listen to this week's BeyondBitcoin hangout, bytemaster's comment from 14:21 to 17:55, because it's really really important.

https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-hangout-12-04-2015-s3

Some people might not see it, but I believe @bytemaster is talking about something really important here. The topic changed to another subject after bytemaster asked for feedback, but I think we need to keep coming back to this topic over and over again.

I'm a trader myself and also a market maker of my own UIA, so I exactly know what bytemaster is stating here.

As bytemaster states, each market should be seen as its own mini business, as a profit center. So, each asset needs promotion individually.

UIA issuer has to jumpstart their own asset by performing market making themselves in the beginning even at a loss, but if market makers cannot earn any percentage fee from both buy and a sell, you will not be calling that "incentivizing market makers." In fact, it's the exact opposite. Eventually, a small-sized UIA issuer will have a hard time keeping up with creating a buy wall if they cannot receive any percentage-based market fees in BTS.

Furthermore, if worker proposal #446 gets approved, this can kill the game for UIA issuer.

BTS is owned by the null-account, so UIA issuer can't do anything about it, even when the community makes a mistake. Have you thought from an UIA issuer's point of view? What if the community comes up with a "stupid" market fee value? That will affect the UIA issuer's game and UIA issuer has no control over it.

I think BTS should be detached from the null-account, and market fee for BTS should be configurable per UIA level by the UIA issuer, and it should allow percentage based market fee that flows directly (no vesting) into the UIA issuer's Fee pool. That's what it means to promote an asset individually and incentivize the market makers.

  and agree with BM's suggestion on splitting fee between referral program and UIA creator.

Listening to this now...seems very interesting.  Makes me more interested in these other markets...Gold etc...Sounds like a potentially big idea...

Quote from: maqifrnswa on December 03, 2015, 08:04:24 pm

Quote from: clayop on December 03, 2015, 07:48:14 pm

I haven't have any communication with him, and he haven't published any feeds. What status now? @maqifrnswa

i'm quite active ;-)

There is a slight conflict of interest with me publishing feeds. By measurement of trading fees paid, I'm the most active trader by far. Since I've been making trades based on forced settlement and feeds, it appears to be a conflict of interest setting the feeds that I directly profit from.

I really would prefer being a worker and maintaining linux distribution of bitshares (and raspberry pi nodes/wallets), but there doesn't seem to be an interest in funding that. So, for now, I've been justifying running https://launchpad.net/~bitshares/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares (ppa:bitshares/bitshares) and the preliminary page at http://162.243.185.205/ off of witness pay. I've also kept the market maker "maqifrnswa.bot" running with witness pay, which might also be something for a worker.

Since the start, I only want to be a witness for as long as I am useful. If I'm no longer useful without feeds, please cut me out

the bolded - Actually you are not (you might be the biggest non- institutional trader)

But the post is a blow of fresh air and rare correct attitude. For which you have my utmost respect!

- Wishing everyone had that character.  Definitely some % of people are predators.

Tony, you certaintly have a way with words.  Thank you for this poll, it is missing just one option:  "CmdrTaco hasn't adopted BTS yet".

Getting to 80% is my strength, finishing the last 20% is my weakness and has long been the case even before BitShares. BitShares is the single project I have stuck with the longest in my life and which has actually reached a usable product in the hands of thousands of users.   

Everyone wants us to focus on "ONE THING" and I largely agree with that. It had better be the right "ONE THING" though or we are dead. 

My personality type is INTJ (http://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality) and I am constantly challening my beliefs and understanding to make things better. I have a very hard time working toward a sub-optimal solution and what is optimal is constantly changing as knowledge increases.  I am smart enough to recognize the value of focusing on one thing as well as the futility of pursuing something to completion that will be outdated by the time it gets there.

I would say that to put my skills to their best use, I should solve problems, prove the concept, and hand it off to people that are good at taking it all the way. 

Anyway, BitShares is a lifelong project that will evolve in the direction this community takes it. It must become bigger than CNX and bigger than me.

That is why we are moving toward open sourcing everything.  Once we open source it, we can continue to improve / develop it together. I have long term plans for it, but obviously need to blend it with short terms needs.

At the end of the day, complaining about others is the least effective means of change. Either do something to help, shut up, or leave.  CNX will do everything we can to avoid being the bottleneck to progress and give the community room to do what is necessary.

BM, It's a good sign that you are self-aware of your strengths and weaknesses.  I think you are good to be partnered with people that can help you with the business/marketing side of things.  You need innovative business entrepreneur type(s) who can help to channel your skills. A plus if they have cash to invest.   

Hang in there!!  A lot of progress has been made...It's great to be able to use the wallet and have some gateways/bridges and partners.  Sometimes it seems like it's 3 steps forward and 2 back...but we're still moving forward!!

I admire you.

p.s. Not paid a cent (nor a BTS or brownie either) for that. LOL

Quote from: bytemaster on November 23, 2015, 11:21:56 pm

Quote from: tonyk on November 23, 2015, 11:07:29 pm

I really do not get 'the no lifetime fees' crowd.

What is up with you people? Someone making too much money, according to you?

If yes go pay it yourselves, or get up and organize it as a UIA funding that you can buy into...


PS
And keep in mind that I say that while I have only 3 prime suspects for this secret investor - CNX being one of those.

CNX is not one of them, nor is it CCEDK nor Bunker.   In other words, there is no slight of hand here, I just wanted to air the idea without involving them.  Would the mystery investor please speak up if you are ok discussing this publicly?

I approached Stan and Dan with the thought of my paying CNX $45,000 to get the Stealth work funded. This is a huge chunk of my lifetime savings, and it is a huge risk for me to be taking. However, I am in total harmony with Bytemaster's philosophy and goals as far as I understand them and want this project to succeed, and to succeed .

I find that a lot of community members are expecting others to do the work needed to get this project rolling for free or for less than market rates. And out and out jealousy rearing its ugly head in some comments today.

Wow, what an offer from a community member!  Support & Respect!!