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Messages - BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

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331
While we may not think it's a good idea to have exchanges vote, you could also argue that as long as the exchange accounts are public and we know who they're voting for, anyone keeping their funds in that exchange implicitly agrees to their votes. If they do not agree they should move their funds elsewhere.

You can't really expect Yunbi's users who hold BTS to know exactly what is going on.  For all they know, they are just trading a cryptocurrency.  So unless Yunbi is informing their users about this very controversial action, then they are acting in an extremely unethical manner and should pay a serious price.

Users should know very well that as soon as they move their BTS to an external exchange, they do not really own their BTS anymore and do not have any voting power or control on what their stake is used for.

But what they didn't know is that the exchange they move it too would use that voting power to manipulate the value of their BTS... good or bad.

If I park my car in a parking garage that takes my keys and parks it, I understand I no longer have control of my car... but I also understand my car is not going to be used so the garage could operate another business of delivering packages around town for example.

Where is the public statement put out by Yunbi that they are going to be handling BTS funds this way from now on?

If they didn't put one out, then this was done with a clear understanding that this would be considered surreptitious.

Given their current position and volume with Ethereum though, they could care less what we or their holders think. If it serves their Ethereum trade business, then the consequences are minimal in the short sighted outlook of things. Perhaps it is in preparation of a chinese fork of bitshares if you really want to get conspiracy theory on it all.

332
While we may not think it's a good idea to have exchanges vote, you could also argue that as long as the exchange accounts are public and we know who they're voting for, anyone keeping their funds in that exchange implicitly agrees to their votes. If they do not agree they should move their funds elsewhere.

I also fail to see how you can use Fox and Azure as an argument for worker dilution, on the contrary it's a great example of how people who are not workers can make important contributions and add value to the network. As far as I know the only direct compensation he received was from people (like myself) who made donations following the Azure announcement.

Imagine if every country where those that didn't go to vote were implicitly agreeing to their voting going towards something else was the norm. Is this the standard we should bring to Bitshares?

It's an exchange.. it's a business. Where is their terms and conditions that states they are going to sieze control of BTS holders voting power for their own use when they trade on their platform? Isn't there a statement somewhere in the trading platform that informs the end user that this is what will happen to their BTS voting power beyond the exchange? If not, I would call this surreptitious, unethical, and without any transparency on their part in the very system they have control over, their exchange. The fact that they hide behind some random named proxy name and not with something that says 'yunbi-exchange' suggests and attempt to hide their actions in my estimation, rather than encouraging transparency.

Fox is an example of development leading to greater market cap in the face of the arguement being we need to wait for magical pixie dust to somehow raise the market cap before we should spend any money.

If the argument is that we shouldn't have more development until market cap goes up, the reality seems to be that the development IS what is causing the market cap to increase. Therefore if we support solid development steps using what we have available to us, ie. worker proposals, then we will get to that higher market cap that supposedly is what is being waited for before support goes to them.

Your understanding of @alt  reasoning for stopping all workers because of the market cap doesn't support what alt himself has said. Look at his 2nd last post before he stopped coming to the forum back in February 4th:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21317.msg277003.html#msg277003

Quote
setup proxy to baozi if you are anti-dilution

this account will against all dilution workers without reason,
so please remove this proxy if you feel it's time to dilution to support those workers.
and don't try to persuade this account change the votes,
you should persuade those persons who set this account as proxy.

Bolded WITHOUT REASON.

You are welcome to look through all his forum posts prior to this all the way to the beginning of the year... not once was the idea of the market cap brought up by alt as his reasoning.

Alt has said fuck bitshares worker.. vote against without reason... don't try to whitewash the reality of his actions or postioning with what we would hope to be nice or reasonable intentions.. it's not.. it's without reason as he himself as stated.. to 'fuck bitshares worker'.

The anti-dilution movement is fueled by this 'without reason' thinking.... we can try and apply all the weak reasoning ideas we can come up with.. but at the end of the day it all amounts to nothing but wishful thinking in the hopes that those perpetrating it are doing it out of some semblance of rational/reasonable/good intentions which is directly contradictory to their own words and actions.

To put the FINAL nail in the coffin on this whole argument.

Bottom line... Yunbi is backed by Ethereum now by a VAST majority:

http://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/yunbi/

Nearly 60% of their entire exchange volume is Ethereum in the last 24hrs.. its been that way for a while

So if you are wondering why they are voting the way they are, follow the money.

333
General Discussion / Re: alt appreciation thread
« on: March 28, 2016, 02:30:36 pm »
So what made alt to go crazy and instead of improving Bitshares to attacking it?
What makes you say he went crazy and attacked Bitshares?? Enough with the innuendo and personal attacks already...

He has been voting for stopping all development since February. That is very clear attack against Bitshares in my mind. He hasn't even bothered to explain why he is doing it.

Alt hasn't been voting for stopping all development since the merger to this Feb, and BTS marketcap dropped lower than Dogecoin who has zero development .

What do you think now ?

So either development has nothing to do with the price , or development can only affect the price in a really really long future . So what's the rush to do dilution of development at a really low and illiquid marketcap ?

I think now this is an uninformed position.

It was the latest development by Fox to get Bitshares into Azure that got our market cap up. It all happened rather quickly too. If nothing was done, where do you think Bitshares market cap would be now? Lets just sit and do nothing is not a plan for success, it's a plan for death.

BTW.. It was because of me searching that I came across this thread and shared it in Telegram with others to show how alt used to support the development of Bitshares. I never thought it would explode like this.

It's ironic. The arguments about what he did in the past and never forgetting as some kind of allusion to appreciation are a contrast to the Chinese who always say the same thing about bytemaster in relation to the merger. Bytemaster devoted years of his life to Bitshares, alt found a bug one time.

Not trying to downplay contributions of the past... just noting how little relevance they have to the actions being taken today.


334
bm change the total supply of BTS without consent too

What the hell this is supposed to mean?

He means many unpopular dilutionary changes were pushed through by a minority of BTS stake that was actually voting, on the basis of 'Silence means consent'. So too with this, if BTS users don't remove their stake from Yunbi or enough BTS votes can't be raised to counteract them then 'Silence means consent.'

So that happened like 2014? And these people haven't got over it and want to revenge for Bytemaster and other developers because of that? And they don't care if Bitshares is destroyed at the same time? Really, what the fuck is wrong with these people? They don't make any sense.

Their argument with the consent issue is that they've always been told if you don't like it, don't just complain that it's not fair/bad for BitShares, get the shareholder votes to support your POV otherwise silence means consent (Also reference in Dec 2015, not just 2014) So now they have the votes to do what they believe is in the best interest of BTS and we shouldn't change the rules/ban them from the forum but rather argue for the other side and get the necessary votes for our POV. 

My impression is that they believe dilution for development is draining the price in the short term. (I agree to an extent that $50 000 spent on development can drop BTS by much more than $50k because of the selling pressure it creates and the value of that development is only realised in the future.) So they think BTS is pretty good where it is atm and deserves a higher valuation and that now we should attract more supporters attracted by a stable/rising share price. At a higher valuation a $50k dev job is relatively much more affordable.

Personally I don't think their strategy will have the desired effect, because vesting merger shares are probably having a much bigger impact than development dilution is at this stage. We've also seen with Fox's effort to add us to Azure, which ironically was low/no paid gave us a $6 million volume day and took us from $10-20 million in less than a week and still 50% higher. So there are clearly some development type efforts that can add massive value to BTS and worth the cost.

 +5% +5% +5%

335
I think the developers have gained enough profit.LINUX strong is not to rely on others to pay wages. I agree with Yunbi.

https://www.quora.com/Do-Linux-developers-get-paid-If-so-is-it-on-par-with-the-pay-that-software-professionals-are-paid

In case you don't want to really look at all the information.. how about we focus on the average salary scale provided in the same informtion:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Linux/Salary

Now look at our workers in comparison.

Better start voting for all those workers now if we really are like LINUX as your supposition suggests.

If Yunbi or others voting against workers are telling this story that LINUX is being developed by unpaid workers.. then it is based on false information about how Linux is in fact developed with very much expense paid.

336
Yunbi voting against the workers could be looked at as them protecting their customers.  By voting against the workers, they are preventing the dilution of their customers bts. Dilution has direct negative price pressure and adds an additional variable to trading.  Workers and development doesn't necessarily mean higher price.

Also there is no "social contact" that the exchanges need to follow, and constant vilifying of exchanges is going to hurt the bts price much more than an exchange actually using the system the way it was designed.

Yes.. there is.. BTS is a unique token beyond others that are on central exchanges. It comes with voting power to influence what happens in Bitshares. If someone is to be able to use an exchange, they are using it to exchange, not to have the voting power absconded by that exchange. This is along the same lines as the exchange taking any snapshots of sharedrops for themselves.

We have a mechanism for proxy voting... and if Yunbi can show that all their depositors accounts are in fact proxying to them because they want Yunbi voting for them, then there is nothing to argue here. This is being done with consent... even if it was a majority percentage and not everyone then I would accept that.. If not though, then this is being done without consent. Lets take a look:

http://cryptofresh.com/u/laomao

Yeah.. nothing but themselves.

Exchanges shouldn't be vilified.. I think they are a very important part to the virtual currency world.

Yunbi has far more understanding and familiarity with Bitshares compared to other exchanges, and they understand better than others the trust being placed with BTS holders in centralized exchanges in regards to voting power. They have somehow arrived at some twisted conclusion that now it is OK for them to vote with their stake.

A year ago when they were delegates taking money from Bitshares for their exchange they understood very well that using their balance to vote would not be well received. Why suddenly they think its ok when in the past it never was? What changed?

The only change now is that the voting power placed with Bitshares holders is far greater. So the message seems from Yunbi is, if you allow someone to have to much power available to them, they will take it without consent for their own purposes.

Again.. there are no arguments against this action if the individual account holders proxy their vote to yunbi in show of support. That would indicate a social consensus in support of them voting.

337
Meanwhile....


338
I knew something like this would happen when @bitcrab got Yunbi to vote.

I suggest that everybody will tweet (https://twitter.com/yunbicom) and send email (https://yunbi.com/documents/contact) to Yunbi. I already did.

https://twitter.com/samupaha/status/714174291730935808

Maybe we can make them stop voting, that is so horrible use of customer funds that I'd guess they will understand it themselves too. By attacking workers they are trying to stop development of Bitshares, which will cause BTS price to go down, which will cause direct harm to their customers who own BTS.
@Samupaha I'm curious why this tweet doesn't show on your main page https://twitter.com/samupaha?

It's just how twitter works.. you have to go into the tweets & replies area

https://twitter.com/samupaha/with_replies

340
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares price discussion
« on: March 27, 2016, 01:30:33 am »
With localhost out of funds where oh where will we find a whale to dump all over us?


341
General Discussion / Re: About workers: 1.14.35/36Fund to pay dividend
« on: March 27, 2016, 12:57:58 am »
I'm thinking about this from a DAC and community point of view.

This is totally shitty move and our community should decide some guidelines how we will deal with stuff like this.

Forum should be reserved only for productive efforts. We really shouldn't have to deal with shit like this here. Just remove the cancer before it gets too big. I've seen too many times that communities start to suffer when they don't get rid of bullies and antiproductive persons soon enough.

I can understand the desire to squash... its been expressed already though that it would not be good.

However I think there is something to be said for having some kind unified message that clearly conveys disapproval of such tactics if not for the community itself at least for new-comers so that there isn't confusion over what is going on.. and perhaps demonstrate the unified front and those in the fringes.

342
General Discussion / Re: Ethereum price discussion
« on: March 26, 2016, 02:10:25 pm »
Barring any really good unexpected news in the next week, I think ETH will go below $500 million.

Their latest update did feature a cliff face as their first image of choice in presenting Ethereums road ahead.

https://lnkd.in/d5F8UKi

Horrible PR blender.. or subliminal warning?

Read the commentaries.. I can't find a lot of happy campers.

343
General Discussion / Re: Against Crowdsales.Do not crowdsale !!!
« on: March 26, 2016, 02:01:24 pm »
If you want free markets you have to accept the shit parts of it as well.

Yes.. but free markets doesn't mean free of standards. There is at least a standard framework even to a market of any kind.

What the OP i think is concerned with is the lack of framework behind these crowdfunds that allow for snake oil tactics to get people buying one thing and not realizing till it's too late that they bought something else.

I agree that when offers are made they should be VERY clear.

344
General Discussion / Re: BLOCKCHAIN BUNKER Debuts on The Daily Decrypt
« on: March 25, 2016, 11:19:07 pm »
I'm in. Will you have the Sharebits ability there?

I am not sure I understand the question in regards to ability. Do you mean capability to send to other platforms? twitter etc?

345
General Discussion / Re: Radium & Expanse
« on: March 25, 2016, 11:01:28 pm »
What do you guys think the problem is?

It's been talked about in the last two hangouts about the next few things that need to be done.

maker/taker improvement to trades and wrapping up other current feature sets in the GUI and away we go.

maker/taker is really the only major thing that sets us apart from every other exchange out there that currently pays for liquidity.

I would not say something is wrong still though.. we just need a few more right things as noted.

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