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Messages - BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

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ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but money come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.

That definitely makes sense, but traditionally such workers are awarded shares in lieu of salary for their work. It is very common for startups to pay workers shares instead of salary since funds are limited, and those that succeed do become rich. Those startups that fail, the workers end up having worked for nothing. They are taking the same risk as early investors and should be compensated for it. But, indeed, there is commonlly a vesting period before they can claim shares and sell them. That would end downward pressure on the market cap.

So to take what you said here and apply it to what @laow thinks would be a good idea would be basically something along the lines of using one of  the following:

1. A BTS fund from donors for development that will give workers shares in lieu of payment for a vesting period of say.. a year?

2. Us the Worker proposal with payment being done in vesting period of 1 year instead of immediate.

My take on these things.

1. If such a fund were possible it would have happened by now. This is along the lines of my position that if there are free workers out there that will do work in bitshares for free they would have done it by now and would have stopped any Worker proposal from happening.

2. I think this might be reasonable if we want to have part time work done and not full time. Obviously people need to eat.

Sooooooooo why not both?

Lets see this 'worker fund from donors' come into existence that is designed specifically to pay for workers 'today' with the promise of them being able to get their investment back 1 year from now. No interest. It is predicated on their shares going up.

The worker doing the work should have a % of their pay be held in vesting just as well so they have an upside to BTS going up also.

It's going to be different from one worker to another. Some are going to be short term while others are ongoing.

The downside to this would be the fund requiring administration.

@laow Would this kind of situation be something that would get anti-dilution voting for workers? Would this fund be something they would be willing to create?

In the end, this would mean workers can work full time on the blockchain, and there would be no more dilution because the only BTS out there is what is already in circulation for at least a year. By then it 'should' be up right?

I am just throwing out ideas.. I don't know what other downsides there might be without putting more thought into it. Like to hear from others first to see if its worth considering.

On the other thread xeroc said that inflation primarily goes not through workers but through merger. If so, it is pointless to remove workers, we just need to wait until merger is finished.

That's just about 8 months out isn't it? Nov 5th?

General Discussion / Re: Radium & Expanse
« on: March 29, 2016, 03:13:20 pm »
I wonder if the way this forum handles criticism is a reason why this Community has the reputation it has?

Hmmm ... I'll have to ponder that one with some colleagues who no longer come around ... for some reason.


@Ben Mason , we all love bts. I am not again the development, but I don't like the Worker Way just as Yunbi.
like you said,  hope one day bitshares true value will reveal itself

Ok, I wish you could already see the value that has been bought with the workers. There is every reason for improving accountability and checking progress. There is so much to be proud of and full of hope for here. I hope we can find a compromise. I don't agree with yunbi's actions because they assumed consent. But I value everyone's efforts who have made BitShares what it is.

All the best Laow.

This is how every round with anti-dilution/workers ends.

One side says we need to develop and this is how it is getting done.

Other side says we need to develop and we don't want Workers doing it.. but we have no idea how to get it done.

As I stated earlier in a tongue and cheek way.. if there really is all this free labour in the wings.. if they step up and get things done, there is absolutely no reason for votes to use the Worker proposal system to fund fixes and updates etc. I highly suspect though that this army of free developers might be part of the anti-reality rally. Thus why we have not seen it.

If there truly was a desire to see bitshares developed without workers.. it could EASILY be done with those that claim they can contribute for free to step up and JUST DO IT!  +5% +5% +5%

It's so obvious.. if it's true.

            Culture is Everything

"Some business cultures place a high value on treating the counterparty in a transaction with respect and dignity.  In those cultures, it's important that every business transaction is a win-win, where both sides are better off for doing business together, regardless of the contractual details. 

In other business cultures, business transactions are highly competitive.  In those cultures, it's important to win every business transaction and contractual details are used as a weapon to bludgeon the counterparty into submission.

See the difference in approach due to culture?

What should also be obvious from this example is that cultures differ.  They can be wildly different.

They aren't equally effective, they usually don't mix well, and some can be toxic"

Sage words indeed.  +5%

General Discussion / Re: About workers: 1.14.35/36Fund to pay dividend
« on: March 29, 2016, 05:00:51 am »
In many places there is a minimum age requirement to vote. What if voting stake was based on coin days? Those that care about bts for the long term will get their vote and voice amplified. Those that want to make a quick buck will have less sway on decisions.

That seems to make a lot of sense if there is a practical way to accomplish it.

This is an interesting idea that might be worth exploring more.   +5%

If you say yes why were not already doing the maintenance?
Since you seem to want to work for free so much.

I agree.. think of all the dilution we could have saved... but @laow has not contributed his free work even though he could.

They blame those that vote for workers when in fact they could have kept us all from having to vote for them to begin with because there was this limitless ocean of free workers.

Heck.. we don't even need witnesses!! We been a bunch of chumps!

Now we have the terrible bigger picture... but still no reason why all this free work is being held back from Bitshares. Guess we are back to conspiracy theories of ChinaShares.

Maybe there is still a chance to take the blue pill.

I will greatly appreciate the history voting api calls that you can provide me with... where you saw they were not!

Just take a look at the links I included.

Your wording indicated they were voting with BM as proxy before but now they are not.

The blockchain though says they were never proxied to BM/angel etc. There is no record at all in them even setting a vote. It's just going to the default nobody.

I know the name... but I never assumed they all vote with BM as proxy.

Unless there is something I missed in reviewing their accounts that someone else can show me, I think you might have misread or not looked closely enough at their transactions.


There is nothing in their history to indicate they were ever proxied to begin with.

Where do you see this?

Good job!  +5%
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

So in the meantime what do you purpose we do? Will you do maintenance and bug fixing as well as improving the UI for a better user experience?

@laow you still didn't answer my question

I know right.. I didn't get answers either ya notice? Just like months ago when we had an entire thread of questions being asked.. but don't mind me.. my positions are apparently dismissed by saying I don't read what others say if I disagree.  :)

Good job!  +5%
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

I guess I have to concede my previous statements that the anti-dilution movement is without reason.

It's only devoid of reality.

Sorry I mischaracterized the anti-dilution movement so terribly.

So where are all these free workers I keep hearing about?

Now we are finally learning there are these really talented bitcoin developers who work for a first generation blockchain who work for free that we can use on our third generation blockchain.

General Discussion / Re: Mutual Aid Societies in the news
« on: March 29, 2016, 12:51:25 am »
I've been following this thread for every post with great interest. I just figured that truth stands on its own merit.

Reminded me of a quote I like:

General Discussion / Re: Importance of early adopters
« on: March 28, 2016, 06:01:17 pm »
If we are not ready for prime time.. the world would have never seen Windows 95 on the same assessment. :)

Wow, did you just suggest they're voting like this because of some far-fetched conspiracy involving Ethereum? A far more plausible answer would be that they're sick of Bitshares hard-forks and emergency hotfixes every couple of weeks and would like things to stabilize a little.

I don't think you're interpreting alt's post the right way, but as his English isn't the best it's certainly up for interpretation. In my opinion he's just saying he'll not vote for dilution workers no matter what at this point in time. Claiming that everyone anti-dilution are fueled by mindless stupidity is just ignorant, but you don't seem to want to listen to any arguments to the contrary. Everyone seems to want to frame this in terms of war terminology, "it's an attack on Bitshares" etc, perhaps that's just a product of our times, but doing so gets us nowhere.

You're putting words in alt's mouth saying he doesn't want more development for years to come and that he wants Bitshares to die, but nothing supports that theory. He simply has a different perspective on what is good for Bitshares in its current state, and since there's no direct correlation between development and market cap who knows, he might just be right. Like I said Fox's efforts had nothing to do with BTS development or worker proposals so it in no way supports your argument, in fact it supports alt's position.

Over a month ago a forum thread attempting to get the anti-dilution believers out to make their case regarding why they are against all workers was started.. I didn't start it.. but others in the community wanted to hear what it was all about. Guess what happened.. nothing. They got no response at all despite a real consorted effort to reach out. It's not ignorant, it's based on the information we have available.. which is primarily coming from alts commentaries and a few others who talk about 2014 mostly.

As for the words I put into alts mouth as you said.. I never said that.. that was you putting words into my mouth putting words into alts mouth. Yikes.

What we know is.. alts perspective of 'what is good for bitshares' is.. 'fuck bitshares worker'.

I seem to be the only one here actually operating on what alt really says, and what little anti-dilution rational we have seen,  while a few others want to stick flowers and daisys in that steaming pile and say it smells like sunshine lollipops and rainbows everywhere.

You and @Bhuz seem to think this is just me taking some kind of position just because I don't agree. I am standing by everyone else who has made numerous attempts to get a reasoning discussion on the matter and failed.

If this is all about the 'good of bitshares'... where is Yunbi?

Shouldn't they be concerned about this thread and their reputation if they really cared?

Don't they want to share with us their reasoning so that perhaps others could be influenced and take their position as well?

Seriously lets stick to the facts of the matter.

When are we going to see a PR release from Yunbi that states clearly they have changed their policies and will start using their wallet to vote and manipulate Bitshares without their users consent? I can tell you when, never.

setup proxy to baozi if you are anti-dilution

this account will against all dilution workers without reason,
so please remove this proxy if you feel it's time to dilution to support those workers.
and don't try to persuade this account change the votes,
you should persuade those persons who set this account as proxy.


You are welcome to look through all his forum posts prior to this all the way to the beginning of the year... not once was the idea of the market cap brought up by alt as his reasoning.

Alt has said fuck bitshares worker.. vote against without reason... don't try to whitewash the reality of his actions or postioning with what we would hope to be nice or reasonable intentions.. it's not.. it's without reason as he himself as stated.. to 'fuck bitshares worker'.

The anti-dilution movement is fueled by this 'without reason' thinking.... we can try and apply all the weak reasoning ideas we can come up with.. but at the end of the day it all amounts to nothing but wishful thinking in the hopes that those perpetrating it are doing it out of some semblance of rational/reasonable/good intentions which is directly contradictory to their own words and actions.

IMO, that "without reason" is clearly intended versus the workers, not for his motivation!

IMO, he is not saying that he votes without reason against all workers, BUT that he votes against those workers that (according to his motivations) have no "reason to be there"/"are not needed"

Plus, directly or indirectly, Alt has stated his motivation more than once. If you and other do not understand his points, is only your fault since you don't really want to carefull read and try to understand others people's positions.

I read through his last 100 posts in the forum.. did you? Didn't think so.

This is the white washing I am talking about.. his own actions and words are clear as day.

Alt has shown no discernment whatsoever in his voting against workers... as he stated in his post. Both his actions and his words have integrity with the latest statement of 'fuck bitshares workers' he made on the blockchain.

Your analysis is more like lipstick on a pig.

It is what it is.

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