Quote from: laow on March 30, 2016, 12:36:26 am

ok, let me clear my point.
If price and popularity is the standard to judge Bitshares success or not, the answer is obvious.
Does someone think about the severe problem? Why people left? BM keep diluting our shares, that is I heard from most people.

below is my opinion to attract people into our community.
1. lower the worker salary
[BSIP10] Percentage-based transfer fee solution based on CER
see this, 3 million for a function, that is too much for me ,for most ChinaShares.  I don't know how you think?

2. set a reward fund
like the wroker  mechanism,  but money come from shareholder who voluntary to give.

3. remove any worker
free developer maybe come. because if they don't contribute for Bitshares, they holded bts will become nothing.
If they work for it for Free. Maybe one day, they will get paid more than they ever paid Worker salary.
that is the motive.

That definitely makes sense, but traditionally such workers are awarded shares in lieu of salary for their work. It is very common for startups to pay workers shares instead of salary since funds are limited, and those that succeed do become rich. Those startups that fail, the workers end up having worked for nothing. They are taking the same risk as early investors and should be compensated for it. But, indeed, there is commonlly a vesting period before they can claim shares and sell them. That would end downward pressure on the market cap.

So to take what you said here and apply it to what @laow thinks would be a good idea would be basically something along the lines of using one of  the following:

1. A BTS fund from donors for development that will give workers shares in lieu of payment for a vesting period of say.. a year?

2. Us the Worker proposal with payment being done in vesting period of 1 year instead of immediate.

My take on these things.

1. If such a fund were possible it would have happened by now. This is along the lines of my position that if there are free workers out there that will do work in bitshares for free they would have done it by now and would have stopped any Worker proposal from happening.

2. I think this might be reasonable if we want to have part time work done and not full time. Obviously people need to eat.

Sooooooooo why not both?

Lets see this 'worker fund from donors' come into existence that is designed specifically to pay for workers 'today' with the promise of them being able to get their investment back 1 year from now. No interest. It is predicated on their shares going up.

The worker doing the work should have a % of their pay be held in vesting just as well so they have an upside to BTS going up also.

It's going to be different from one worker to another. Some are going to be short term while others are ongoing.

The downside to this would be the fund requiring administration.

@laow Would this kind of situation be something that would get anti-dilution voting for workers? Would this fund be something they would be willing to create?

In the end, this would mean workers can work full time on the blockchain, and there would be no more dilution because the only BTS out there is what is already in circulation for at least a year. By then it 'should' be up right?

I am just throwing out ideas.. I don't know what other downsides there might be without putting more thought into it. Like to hear from others first to see if its worth considering.

I wonder if the way this forum handles criticism is a reason why this Community has the reputation it has?

Hmmm ... I'll have to ponder that one with some colleagues who no longer come around ... for some reason.

 

            Culture is Everything

"Some business cultures place a high value on treating the counterparty in a transaction with respect and dignity.  In those cultures, it's important that every business transaction is a win-win, where both sides are better off for doing business together, regardless of the contractual details. 

In other business cultures, business transactions are highly competitive.  In those cultures, it's important to win every business transaction and contractual details are used as a weapon to bludgeon the counterparty into submission.

See the difference in approach due to culture?

What should also be obvious from this example is that cultures differ.  They can be wildly different.

They aren't equally effective, they usually don't mix well, and some can be toxic".

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2016/01/culture-is-everything.html

Sage words indeed. 

If you say yes why were not already doing the maintenance?
Since you seem to want to work for free so much.

I agree.. think of all the dilution we could have saved... but @laow has not contributed his free work even though he could.

They blame those that vote for workers when in fact they could have kept us all from having to vote for them to begin with because there was this limitless ocean of free workers.

Heck.. we don't even need witnesses!! We been a bunch of chumps!

Now we have the terrible bigger picture... but still no reason why all this free work is being held back from Bitshares. Guess we are back to conspiracy theories of ChinaShares.

Maybe there is still a chance to take the blue pill.

http://cryptofresh.com/u/for-gary

http://cryptofresh.com/u/garylarimer

There is nothing in their history to indicate they were ever proxied to begin with.

Where do you see this?

Good job! 
Bitcoin grows well without any paid "workers", think about Linux. Why can't bitshares?
Does the  Bitshares 2.0,  the Worker attract more developers? No, still these people, but Toast left, Vikram left, alt leaving.
Yep, we against increase the supply. Can you see any public company raise what he wants?
Bitshares need a good reputation more than its technology, then people come, developers come.

I guess I have to concede my previous statements that the anti-dilution movement is without reason.

It's only devoid of reality.

Sorry I mischaracterized the anti-dilution movement so terribly.

So where are all these free workers I keep hearing about?

Now we are finally learning there are these really talented bitcoin developers who work for a first generation blockchain who work for free that we can use on our third generation blockchain.

If we are not ready for prime time.. the world would have never seen Windows 95 on the same assessment.

Quote from: BunkerChain Labs on March 28, 2016, 04:50:54 pm

Quote

setup proxy to baozi if you are anti-dilution

this account will against all dilution workers without reason,
so please remove this proxy if you feel it's time to dilution to support those workers.
and don't try to persuade this account change the votes,
you should persuade those persons who set this account as proxy.

Bolded WITHOUT REASON.

You are welcome to look through all his forum posts prior to this all the way to the beginning of the year... not once was the idea of the market cap brought up by alt as his reasoning.

Alt has said fuck bitshares worker.. vote against without reason... don't try to whitewash the reality of his actions or postioning with what we would hope to be nice or reasonable intentions.. it's not.. it's without reason as he himself as stated.. to 'fuck bitshares worker'.

The anti-dilution movement is fueled by this 'without reason' thinking.... we can try and apply all the weak reasoning ideas we can come up with.. but at the end of the day it all amounts to nothing but wishful thinking in the hopes that those perpetrating it are doing it out of some semblance of rational/reasonable/good intentions which is directly contradictory to their own words and actions.

IMO, that "without reason" is clearly intended versus the workers, not for his motivation!

IMO, he is not saying that he votes without reason against all workers, BUT that he votes against those workers that (according to his motivations) have no "reason to be there"/"are not needed"

Plus, directly or indirectly, Alt has stated his motivation more than once. If you and other do not understand his points, is only your fault since you don't really want to carefull read and try to understand others people's positions.

I read through his last 100 posts in the forum.. did you? Didn't think so.

This is the white washing I am talking about.. his own actions and words are clear as day.

Alt has shown no discernment whatsoever in his voting against workers... as he stated in his post. Both his actions and his words have integrity with the latest statement of 'fuck bitshares workers' he made on the blockchain.

Your analysis is more like lipstick on a pig.

It is what it is.