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Messages - bitcrab

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1441
General Discussion / Re: New Bitshares Dividend Idea
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:28:34 pm »
I don't know now how much fees the platform can get from users every month, but I think it's very low, too low to worth doing such a dividend distribution.

1442
bad idea, most users from China community will complain to pay 100BTS for transferring 100000BTS. forget this please.

1443
General Discussion / Re: how about to raise block reward?
« on: January 12, 2017, 03:24:38 pm »
I tend to disagree to increase witness pay, on the opposite, perhaps it's better to decrease it. Witnesses are investing into the system, they're not pure employees.

In many cases higher wage doesn't bring higher performance.

We need a HR department to review every employee's performance, including witnesses' and workers' and perhaps committee members', say, give them a basic wage, then a bonus depending on their performance.

An HR department type setup is something I have been encouraging for a while. Put the hiring, firing, management of the workers in their hands so that real measures can be done, and greater accountability.

I think the pay pressure is going to increase the need for accountability.. I think there will be less tolerance for 'lazy witnesses' after this while at the same time heating up the competition. If the objective is to get new blood, better feed data, and make being a witness something that people are striving to be best at because there is a clear reward for it, then this will help accomplish that. I think the change in the rate is going to change the culture significantly.

I worry that introducing HR may introduce some other issues, this is a DAC, there are high infomaiton asymmetry and no solid company rules, so there is unignorable risk for collusion.

raising block reward may also lead to some interesting results other than better witness service.  in my imagination,  witness will mean competence+reputation+responsibility+profit, however, people need to compete for a witness position. and shareholders can fire the witness at any time if they judge he does not deserve, this machanism can work together with worker proposal as ways to encourage contributors.

1444
General Discussion / Re: how about to raise block reward?
« on: January 12, 2017, 01:54:37 pm »
I vote for steem like witness payouts to attract steem witnesses.

For several months they have developed a very strong witness following. Very few have ventured into bitshares in some part due to the lack of incentives to do so. Many witneses there are skilled developers and have contributed significant apps to the steem in order to win their approval.

I believe if rewards were high we would see the likes of @arhag come back.. and other new witnesses in steem who could take some of what they have done with steem and reapply it to bitshares.

I am quite confident this could be a significant turnaround.. it does however require more communication from the Chinese. If it is an uphill battle to gain votes from the chinese proxies who control the majority of voting power then they could be turned off.

Aside from attracting new blood, this provides considerable funds to consider incorporating paid price feed data from various sources. So with this I also think it raises the bar for witnesses in bitshares to improve on what they provide. This was what I talked about recently when there was discussion surrounding the feed data.

Raise the standards for bitshares, we raise the quality and increase our value prop.

So with that, as a Committee member, at present I am supporting a raise of 8BTS per /block payout for these reasons given primarily. If you wish to also support these types of reasons, then set your vote for Committee member to Bunkerchainlabs-com.

If the increase is only a doubling or a half measure, I don't believe we will see any significant changes at all. You can't catch your breath only making half effort from being underwater. We either go all the way to effect results or not get above the water at all.

This is my current thinking on the matter. I am open to listening to others take on this and to be swayed otherwise to be shown some other amount being able to breath air into bitshares.

interesting, DPOS means the one that contribute more will be more easily voted, this will effectively encourage contribution.
I like the word "Raise the standards for bitshares, we raise the quality and increase our value prop."

1445
General Discussion / how about to raise block reward?
« on: January 12, 2017, 12:41:09 pm »
with the growing of the ecosystem, the community begin to demand more on witnesses.

one thing is price feeding, while the DEX trading volume keep on growing, the price feeding become more important than before, shorters need witnesses to provide high quality price feeding service to avoid man made margin call or force settlement transactions.

and to keep the growing network healthy, there are also requirements for witness to imporve hardware.

however, as @rnglab has summarized at https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23607.msg301580.html#msg301580, comparing to the demand to witnesses, witnesses is at a very low profit and do not have enough incentive to upgrade their service, we even can see some witnesses have forgotten their witness nodes.

these are reluctant, a blockchain platform should depend not only on the enthusiasm of volunteers, but also on some business model that can guarntee the basic service to continue, and to attract new comers, we do not like the energy wasting mining of Bitcoin, but at the business model side it is effective to keep the ecosystem growing, we can learn something from the mining model of Bitcoin. 

so now I propose to raise the block reward, currently the reward is 1.5BTS/block, now three options are given: 3BTS/block, 5BTS/block, 8BTS/block. each correspond to an annual dilution ratio of 1.22%, 2.04%, 3.22%, completely acceptable.

what we can forcast is, after the block reward rise, witnesses will more positively upgrade their hardware and service, more new comers will join the witnesses group and we will have a bigger node pool to choose the best witnesses. and I believe some interesting thing will happen.

I have proposed this in China community, up to now the response is mainly positive. now I propose here, hope everyone can express your opinion on this, I believe we now need to seriously consider and evaluate this proposal.

please also consider that the system has daily budget (witness+worker), today the budget is 349297 BTS, which means 12 BTS/block if they are totally paid to witnesses, and the daily budget is dynamic and shrinking if I am correct.

1446
Stakeholder Proposals / Re: [Worker Proposal] New BitShares Core Dev
« on: January 12, 2017, 08:53:55 am »

This Worker Proposal is for 6 months, and will include fixing Graphene Issues via github, and building the new features for the Bitshares platform and DEx that the community has been asking for.
 

What exactly does this mean? There is room for a lot of clarifiaction:

Issues in github? There are plenty to go for a while, which ones are planned for with what milestones?
What new features specifically has the community been asking for?

Without a clear plan for work inefficiency creeps.

Looking forward to the reply.

exactly, please give the detail of the new features in the develop plan, there should be a process for the community to agree on adding new features.

1447
中文 (Chinese) / Re: 你赞同增加出块奖励吗?
« on: January 11, 2017, 08:38:58 am »
+5% +5% +5%
不光加块收入,还应该改变worker的发放流程,也要适当的加一些些交易费。
一件件说吧,增加交易费还远没到时候。

1448
中文 (Chinese) / 你赞同增加出块奖励吗?
« on: January 11, 2017, 07:33:11 am »
随着内盘交易量的不断增长,喂价变得越来越重要,对见证人喂价质量的要求正在变得越来越高。

而且,就确保一个不断成长的网络的健康而言,对节点还有一些其它方面的要求正在出现,例如@rnglabhttps://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23607.msg301580.html#msg301580 所提出的,每个见证人拥有两个8G的节点,也许是做到能够自动识别分叉并切换的最低技术要求。

还有,我一直认为,当前25个节点是很不够的,在可预见的将来,需要最低达到50个以上。

与这些要求相比,在见证人端却一直都很缺乏经济激励,正如前面链接中的总结,目前见证人节点收入非常微薄,见证人缺乏足够的收入来升级硬件,提升服务,甚至有见证人已经忘记了自己的节点。

这一切都是非常不正常的,一个区块链平台不能只靠基于热爱的志愿者来维护。它必须有一定的经济模型,来保证所需要的服务可持续并且能不断提升,不断吸引更多的人参与。这方面,比特币的挖矿模式虽然耗能严重,但在建立良好的经济激励方面却非常有效,比特股应该从中借鉴一些东西。

我的建议是,提高出块奖励,把当前的1.5BTS/块提高的3BTS/块。
目前出块奖励带来的年化通胀是0.6%,翻倍后1.2%,这一比例是完全可以接受的。

可以预见的是,提高出块奖励之后,见证人会更积极地提升硬件和服务,更多的候选见证人会出现,社区也会对见证人提出更高的要求。这些都更有利于社区生态的发展。

你赞同吗?




1449
General Discussion / about witness "bue"
« on: January 11, 2017, 04:21:18 am »
according to the info I collected from China community, the man behind witness "bue" is sfinder, a famous cheater in China cryptocurrency area.
if this is the fact,  we should definitely remove "bue" from witness slate immediately, it's a shame to let a cheater hide there.
this old post shows what sfinder has done in the past: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,10937.0.html

however, I am 95%, but not 100% sure what I collected is the fact, to be careful, I set the title of this thread as "about witness "bue"" instead of "please remove "bue" from witness slate". if you know more about "bue", please post it here as proof for community to reach a decision.

to bue: if you are not sfinder, please claim here and provide evidence about who you are.

cheaters are always good at lying, so just being nice is not enough, being careful is always a must.



1450
Stakeholder Proposals / [Witness Proposal] jerryliu
« on: January 10, 2017, 02:06:08 pm »
kindly vote witness node "jerryliu".

I am not senior in programming or administration, so I get help from @alt and @boombastic and some other developers. and as an active trader/market maket I will keep on caring the market and also the witness status everyday.

at beginning I'll run alt's btsprice script to feed price for bitCNY and bitUSD, later will feed price for other key smartcoins.

Server Specs: Linode VPS, 6 Cores, 12G, Tokyo.

Appreciate your vote!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
不多说了,希望大家为我的见证人投上一票:
见证人账号:jerryliu
见证人 id:1.6.72
见证人服务器配置:Linode 6核,12G 内存,东京

1451
General Discussion / Re: more professional price feed?
« on: January 10, 2017, 05:20:04 am »
Sorry for the low response when CNY volume moved from btc38 and yunbi to other exchanges. It is fixed now.

Also I remained publishing acceptable GOLD and SILVER prices when Yahoo started to bring strange values, as I've added an Quandl API key shortly after xeroc added it as a feedsource.

Now I'm fetching GC and SI from Yahoo instead of XAU and XAG as abit suggested. I also applied his patch to derive prices across 3 markets and everything looks good.

thanks, revoted, I am also trying to run a witness in order to understand the witness thing more deeply.

1452
General Discussion / Re: more professional price feed?
« on: January 10, 2017, 05:18:22 am »
@alt  runs a bussines which depends on precise and resilient feeds. His code skills along with a real incentive, brings us a good chance to improve the way we fetch and derive external prices.
Besides that I think it would be more productive to fork and improve @xeroc script, as a way to sum the scarce resources we have on this topic. 

Some conditions have to be given for diversity to be enriching, and for fair competition to exist at all. In the meanwhile, I think that cooperation is the way to go. Competition will favor aptitude and commitment only when we become able to incentivize it.


 Some numbers:

  - Witness reward averaged something around $200/month this year.

 - Let's say a regular VPS with 8Gb RAM costs 80 USD per month, and 50 USD for 4Gb.
 - That is a 150 USD reward for witnesses running just one node with only 4Gb  (at its very memory limit).
 - There's a 120 USD incentive to have 8Gb on just one node, with no failover at all.
 - Even running two 4Gb nodes with a proper failover strategy (for ~100 USD), both  nodes could easily crash if RAM becomes not enough.

Automatic fork resolution is working great, but it has not been prooven beyond our current TPS.
With checkpoints and delayed nodes, we have revived the network in less than an hour with no major consequences when forks turned into lost of consensus.
But I wouldn't like to see the network crashing just when the real action starts.

 - It seems to me that having two 8Gb nodes per witness, with failover able to identify and move away from minority forks (when possible with just two nodes), are the minimum technical requirements to handle the upcoming network growth. That means a reward of 40 USD per month at most.
Add seed nodes and the time required to constantly check and fix feeds, having everything up to date and the need to remain informed in a daily basis.

That means good withesses working at a loss, while icentivizing poor performance for a proffit.



This also brings another concern to me: as many good neutral witnesses lack of incentive or resources/time despite they good will, it drives business to run it's own witnesses given their need to have reliable feeds.
I see a flaw here:  business tend to have more resources, voting stake, reward incentives and thus good performance , this raises their motivation and chances to have many witnesses voted in.
As business models may disagree about market parameters that are defined by feed producers, this could lead to unfair competition or other undesirable behavors, specially now that new/unknown players are steadily arriving.

This is one of the reasons why witnesses, committee and proxies were planed as independent powers.



I'm not pushing to rise block rewards here, nor discouraging our most valuable witnesses who also runs business over bitshares.
 I still enjoy being reliable and helpful as a witness, rewards aside, and  I'm glad to see this debate going on in a constructive way, finally.
Just want to sumarize some facts I see.

At this point we really need a good balance between competition and collaborative work to make network and market more stable and to reduce the entry barriers.

this summary convinced me that we need to seriously consider to rise block reward.

while the trading volume keep growing, we need better witness service: stable block generation, reliable fork resolution, better price feed, and maybe even more witness nodes. all these need witnesses to pay more effort and cost.

I believe that many people enjoy contributing to the community as a witness with caring little to the reward, but the growing network should depend not only on good will, but also on reasonable business models. if we demand each witness node to provide high quality service, the block reward should match the effort and cost they have to pay. and then more witness will come and compete.

1453
General Discussion / Re: more professional price feed?
« on: January 09, 2017, 02:52:38 am »

There are rules to being able to qualify for election for president. It is not ruleless. In the above however this is being conflated with electioneering. Before they even get into the game, they have rules to follow and know what can and cannot be done. There are laws. Witnesses have nothing but the whim of some people who have no clear guidelines, rules, or to compare to running for President of the USA, laws, that they can then follow to become a candidate.

You want competition to be a factor, then there has to be a playing field that has rules and/or guidelines that can be followed and considered.

what you are talking is just the enter threshold: following the law, and maybe also the candidate should be born in US? ... however, following these is just the precondition to enter the game, it does not guarntee anyone to become the president.

there are some general guidelines for what a president should do - a US president should make US economy grow, should bring happiness to US people, and make US great. but there's no guildlines for how to get this done, no guidelines on how to cope with the illegal immigrants, how to attract overseas investment, whether should to pay more on defense and anti-terrorism...on the contrary, the candidates should give their idea on these issues and try to get support.

similiarly, we also have enter threshold for being a witness - you need to run a witness node. however, running a witness node does not guarntee that you'll be voted as active witness.generally speaking, voters would like to support the witness that provide better service, but I don't think we need to define "better service" on each detail,  if the proxy and witness keep on communicate with each other, the voting precedure will make better service comes out.

1454
General Discussion / Re: more professional price feed?
« on: January 08, 2017, 12:02:43 pm »
whether we can call it competition is not so important, a similar thing is US President election, are there clearly defined what kind of people should be elected president? no, but is this a competition? I think so. the final result comes from competition.
to qualify witness, take the "feed price every 5 min" as an example, at the time that the market price does not change in 30 mins, why should the witness publish price every 5 min?

another example is, several witnesses removed yunbi price when they are told that yunbi price is easy to manipulate, however alt's script uses a different alogrithm: it collect orders from different exchanges, including yunbi, and simulate to put these orders together to generate a result price, so this gives each exchange the weight it should have, right? but before this script comes out, I don't know the price script can be coded like this.

in my view price feed is such an area that it is easy to judge which witness doing well but it's not easy to hard code some rules to determine which nodes is qualified.

as a proxy, in long run I think I will vote witness that
1. generate block with low block missing rate.
2. publish price that reflect market price exactly and globally enough, maybe no need to be very frequent, but when market price changes obviously, need to publish price in time.

maybe I will unvote all the witnesses that does not publish price. however I think we need first reach some conclusion on the reward issue.

I do not like the worker proposal advice, as it depends on trustee, not decentralized enough.

the voting machanisim can work without clearly defined game rule, just as a satisfactory president can comes out from the general election. of course, a lot of communication are needed here between the proxy/stakeholders and the candidates.

1455
General Discussion / Re: more professional price feed?
« on: January 07, 2017, 03:46:19 pm »
I agree to let the competition machanisim solve the problem: obviously shareholders appreciate and would like to vote the witnesses that provide more and better service.

and AFAIK, to provide good price feed is also possible via free/open source script, for example, alt has published his script at https://pypi.python.org/pypi/btsprice/0.2.21, it's a good reference.

on the other side, I wonder whether  we need to consider one question: suppose publishing price feed become what witness must do,  shall we increase the block reward? and to how much?

now being a witness can get some reward, but the reward is not very attractive, we need to balance the responsibility and the reward, maybe we need to reestimate what a reward is more reasonable? maybe a more reasonable reward can lead to more active ecosystem?

kindly give your input on this topic.

@Bhuz sorry if I did things carelessly, I' recheck and take actions accordingly.

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