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Messages - noisy

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151
I will describe how I understand new idea.

Let's say, 1 BTS costs 0.05 USD

I want to buy a 1 bitUSD with USD. To do that, I give that 1 USD to CCEDK.

Next, CCEDK checks what is a price of BTS in DEX. With price 1 BTS for 0.05 USD, CCEDK can buy 20 BTS for one dolar. But it is not enough to issue a 1 bitUSD. To do that, they have to add their own 20 BTS.

Then with 40 BTS collateral , 1 bitUSD is created. Then they send this 1 bitUSD to me :)

What can happen next?

Let's @bytemaster will say that he has to go for 6 months long vacations. Then some BTS shareholders suddenly sold a lot of BTS, and price drops from 0.05 USD to 0.04375 USD per BTS ;)

In that case 40 BTS collateral which were used to create my 1 bitUSD is worth only 1.75 USD. Then "margin call" are initialized. The automated order is created, and network tries to sell these 1 bitUSD (actually the loan is going to be sold). Because the initial collateral in that case was 200%, network has to take care to retrieve enough funds to keep collateral.

(this is the part, when I don't know what will going to happen... I am improvising. Please correct me!)

Because 1 BTS is now worth only 0.04375 USD, that means that with 1 USD network can buy ~22.9515 BTS (let's say ~23 BTS). But because 200% is required, ~46 BTS are needed (6 BTS more than before). Those 6 BTS are taken from collateral of issuer (in that case CCEDK) and 40-26=14 BTS will be given them back. Because CCEDK not adjusted collateral, they loose ~6 BTS from their 20 BTS of collateral (~30%). In that case loan was paid from CCEDK funds.

152
I think I got it. Is that mean, that to have a possibility of issuing bitCNY, we have to have a possibility of buying BTS directly by bitCNY ? etc?

153
So if you have USD - you buy bitUSD with USD - from say Ronny's ccedk, and start trading in the DEX.

Ok, so how bitUSD will be issued? It will be like... new bitUSD will produce new BTS... worth exactly 1 USD?

154
I am wondering whether that's me, or that's it's a little bit difficult to understand? Seriously, am I reading this 4th time :/

Ok, So I have $20 and I want to trade them for some bitAsset. What I will have to do, in few different steps... ?

155
General Discussion / Re: KKachi is on OPEN.ETH market!
« on: February 10, 2016, 06:39:21 pm »
Finally, Kkachi got some OPEN.ETH and began to make OPEN.ETH:OPEN.BTC market.
He's also making BTS:OPEN.BTC market too, so you can convert your BTS into OPEN.ETH without any difficulties.

Please check it out  8)

markets like OPEN.ETH:OPEN.BTC are simple ...  was mtgox offers years ago. They depend on trust to some third-party. Bots should be on trades like bitBTC:bitCNY. There is only way to make a truly decentralize trustless exchange. What you are doing is making bitshares even more confusing for newbies.

156
Wiem, że ostatnio wszyscy raczej fascynują się ethereum, jednak tymczasem w bitshares dzieje się coś (co wg społeczności) może dać bitshares sporą przewagę na wieloma innymi kryptowalutami.

A mowa o całkowicie darmowych transakcjach. Np. takich, które umożliwią przesyłanie 0.00000001 BTC bez obawy, że opłata ze przesłanie wyniesie 10 razy tyle. Innymi słowy, prawdziwe mikrotransakcje.

Bytemaster - lead developer bitshares - rozpoczął prezentowanie tego pomysłu od słów [1]:

Quote
Could we imagine a scenario where the blockchain had no fees, at all?

Według mnie najzabawniejsze w tym jest to, w jakich bólach ten pomysł się urodził. Bitshares ma wbudowaną pierwszą(?) zdecentralizowaną giełdę, która w przeciwieństwie do giełd zdecentralizowanych jak mtgox, nie może być zhackowana za pomocą przełamania zabezpieczeń pojedynczego komputera. Owa giełda, wszystkie rzeczy zapisuje w blockchainnie. Wszystko... orderbook, transakcje na giełdzie itd. Problem był taki, że dotychczas można było na giełdzie wystawić 100000 orderów na 0.00000001 i zaspamować sieć.

By temu przeciwdziałać, wprowadzono opłaty, które czyniły taki atak nieopłacalnym. Problem natomiast przerodził się w to, że praktycznie wszystko zostało później obłożone opłatami (małymi, ale jednak), co sprawiło, że całe bitshares od momentu startu wersji 2.0 raczej tylko traciły użytkowników.

W świecie bitshares wszystkie opłaty mogą być dynamicznie ustalane poprzez społeczność za pomocą głosowania opartego na PoS, które również jest wbudowane w blockchain. Przez ostatnie miesiące wśród użytkowników toczyła się batalia czy daną opłatę zwiększyć o kilka centów, czy zmniejszyć a powiększyć inną. Prawdziwy shitstorm.

I tak oto, największa wada bitshares ma okazję przerodzić się w największą jego zaletę, bowiem okazało się, że potrzebę opłat da się całkowicie obejść :) Prawdopodobnie, gdyby nie wcześniejszy odpływ użytkowników, nikt by na ten pomysł nie wpadł, bowiem nie było by takiego parcia na obniżenie opłat.

Dużo się teraz dzieje w tym temacie. Pomysł jest świeży, ale raczej wszyscy mają pewność, że bytemaster jest w stanie to zaimplementować dość szybko.

Na koniec parę linków:
- artykuł/whitepaper z analizą tematu
- wątek na forum, badający poparcie społeczności dla tego pomysłu - 93% na tak
- hangout podczas którego pomysł został ogłoszony
- raiblocks - inny projekt, którego twórca się zgłosił na forum po ogłoszeniu pomysłu bytematera, który również ma mieć darmowe transakcje
- watek na forum o możliwości podpięcia bitshares jako sidechaine'a bitcoina

Poza tym, jak już kiedyś wspomniałem... bitshares zmieniło licencję na MIT, co sprawia... że każdy może sobie zrobić forka i prędzej czy później taki system do miktotransakcji wprowadzić na swoje potrzeby gdzieś u siebie :)

157
If I can transfer and trade for free, why the hell I need LTM?

- creating an assets
- cheaper stealth transfers
- premium accounts, shorter nicks
- ability to be a part of referral program (fees from things above + (for LTM) profit from possible future revenue from transaction fees)


duh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMV-fenGP1g#t=3m1s
(what are you waiting for?)

(someone to fork BitShares and implement this algo?)

That would be great! Seriously! BM is a great developer, but second implementation of this same idea, especially based on this same code base, would be a great source of informations and inspiration. IMO, no coin which is no open source has the future, what means, other cryptocoins can and always will can copy best idea or implement them even better.

In my opinion, right now is better to "waste" a few days for discussion to make sure, that this could actually work. The worst thing we could do would be to say: "this is great, start immediately!". With this article BM gives another professionals a chance to speak up about drawbacks of this approach. If this idea is truly very good, it will survive. If it has some major problem not discovered yet, it would be better to spot it sooner, than later. This could save us moths of development.

I really appreciate an effort and the transparency of this workflow. Appearance of such people like @clemahieu proves, that openness could bring attention of other skilled developers, who are eager to show their code and maybe even help with its development.

158
Just one thing, you built the referral program, don't try to kill it.

this will give us a possibility to set each fee according to attractiveness to the user, not attractiveness to abuser of the network. Personally I think I would be good for bitshares to lower basic fees to 0 (transactions, all staff related to exchange), but leave or maybe even increase some fees for creating a LTM/AM, creating new assets, end so on. So far according to my knowledge profits from selling LTM are much grater than from regular transaction fees.

159
Marketplace / Re: Servers for Bitshares Start-ups @ 50% off
« on: February 10, 2016, 06:41:53 am »
What do we offer ?
...
-Any specs you require


Could you provide few example setups? Then we will have a chance to compare your offer to other available.

160
we missed few trains.

1. At the beggining of bitshares 2.0, just after lunch, there were no bridges and gateways. The only way of step into bitshares exchange was to use another one.
2. Fees were to high, and discourage people from experimenting
3. There were no public testnet, so people have limited possibilities to reports many annoying bugs. Everything were very unstable.
4. Liquidity (if we had any) dropped even harder, and we cannot recover it since then
and as you can guess, this is not everything.

However, since September, a lot of things changed. It is still not perfect, but I believe, we all see bright future for bitshares. I believe, that we evolved as a community.

161
I sent a PM to BM, maybe we all could work together on something.  It might be easier than rewriting the network and storage layer since RaiBlocks has it implemented already.

That would be awesome! Cooperation with skilled developers could make bitshares and cryptocurrency world even better :) Maybe you can join next hangout session ( I am not sure when they are organize on mumble. @fuzzy should know :)).

162
The RaiBlocks PoS network has no fees and is also fully distributed, i.e. it doesn't need elected delegates.

https://raiblocks.net/#/

Whitepaper:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13s6BKzRq9oD5Me55JBRzR7BdvjJ44QKqPu2lf-JsAlU/edit

I am assuming that we are a developer of raiblocks [1]. Reading your whitepaper will take me some time. Could you in the mean time describe similarities and differences between bitshares and raiblocks?

PS. great you are here! :)

163
I would keep a basic_fee for normal-users and the RP, and I would try to push all the cool stuff (like 0 transfer fee) for LTM-only.

Yeah... this will allow us earn millions of dollar thanks to LTM fees, but you know what is cooler?

Here is a tip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU6scly2AFU

we need users. Fees aren't cool. This is not time to take your chips down.

164
I have to admit one thing. This change could turn the biggest disadvantage of bitshares into its biggest asset.

And the funny thing about that is... I truly believe that no one would came up with this idea, if some mistake were not be made in the first place. And the way, how BM presented this idea...

https://youtu.be/EmHrwuvoK3I?t=22m50s

Quote
Could we imagine a scenario where a blockchain has no fees at all...?

this deserve to be printed on t-shirts as our vision for next months.


165
ok... I believe we all see, that majority of community likes this idea. What should be done next to turn this idea into reality? Worker proposal?

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