If we all agree that MSSR should be 0%, MCR at 1.0 and force settlement as high as we can (100%?), we should be able to get everyone creating some bitCNY, but who is going to buy it? I would rather see a bit smaller MCR than non-existent MSSR.

you misunderstood what I mean. I don't forget the basic financial principle.

I don't think MCR can be reduced to 1, in my view, it is possible to go down to say 1.5 or 1.4 and stay there without going down.

MSSR is possible to go to 1, but need step by step.

force settlement offset is not supposed to go as high as possible, I don't think there is a "the higher, the better" logic for this offset, actually, now 2% for bitCNY is as low as possible, as up to now we do not have an always reliable feed price.

I will not support reduce MSSR less than 1.02.
sure we need to keep some profit space for those who help eat the margin call order.
I saw some people want to reduce MSSR because they think feed price is too lower than it should be,
they should try to change feed price instead of change MSSR. there is big different between these two problem.

I agree that price feed problem and MSSR problem are different and need different ways to solve.

but after so long time practice,  I think we should understand more deeply on the margin call rule sets.

first, can we just ragard the profit space for eating margin call orders as same as "MSSR-1"?

No, actually when the debt position is margin called/the collateral is forced to be sold, the profit space for eating margin call/the punishment to debt position owners is there.

even if MSSR = 1.

because if you are provided the rights to buy some volume of BTS at the current market price, don't you think this right worth some money?

the same logic that trader need to pay for American options.

and what we can see clearly is that, either we set MSSR=1.1 or 1.02 does not determine whether the margin call orders be eaten or not, the more important factor is market sentiment.

the disadvantage of high MSSR is that, it benefit more on shorting BTS, and then encourage traders to short BTS.

so my ideas on MSSR setting is, MSSR should be greater or equal to 1, the lower, the better.

for bitCNY, 1.02 is a value that do not lead to "margin call orders not eaten" phenomena, it's time to consider to reduce MSSR more, to discourage shorters, to ensure better pegging.

for bitUSD, 1.02 is a value that margin call orders always stay there without being eaten, so no need to consider to reduce MSSR currently.

As MSSR values, 1% and 2% are different at:

1. 1% will lead to better pegging at time while margin call price impact the expectation on BTS price.

2. 1% reduce the benefits of shorting BTS in half.

3. lower MSSR will make the margin call orders a little more difficult to be eaten. and may lead to some risk accumulation.


Please find BSIP59 Doc: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/blob/master/bsip-0059.md for detailed info of BSIP59.

Two worker proposals have been created for this poll:

1.14.181   Poll - BSIP59 - Reduce MSSR of bitCNY to 1.01

1.14.169   Poll - BSIP59 - Do Not Reduce MSSR of bitCNY

please consider the 2 choices carefully before you vote.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

update:

As 1.14.169 expired, a new WP is created to replace it:

1.14.191   Poll - BSIP59 - Do Not Reduce MSSR of bitCNY to 1.01

If you are against to reduce MSSR of bitCNY to 1.01, please vote 1.14.191

我们有很现成的一个例子可以学习, 他们学习BTS的长处, 为什么BTS不能学习他们的长处?

选择可信任的预言机（Oracles）：​Maker 平台通过去中心化的预言机基础设施获取抵押物的内部价格和 Dai 的市场价格，这一基础设置包含很广泛的预言机个体节点。MKR 持有者控制哪些节点可以作为可信任的预言机及其数量多少。只要超过半数的预言机正常运行，系统的安全就不会受到破坏。

喂价的见证人和预言机有什么区别？

Every time people in communities outside China talk about the premium of bitcny, they seem to have no idea about the premium at all. I think this should be because they have never tried to buy BTS with direct RMB. They simply cannot understand what the Chinese community has been complaining about.

it's easy to understand if  they want to.

you can get the premium simply if you install magicwallet in your mobile.





you can also contact magicwallet team to request an API to get the data with program - yes, you need to do that if you are a witness.
 

Quote from: bitcrab on April 14, 2019, 09:10:28 am

I don't care what cause the premium, the fact is the premium is there.

You can't repair it if you don't find out why it's broken.

And IMO it is quite obvious why it's broken: https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/CNY lists over 200 short positions with a CR of less than 1.8. Whenever BTS goes down a tiny bit in relation to CNY, all of these get margin called, which eats all orders up to MSSR from the market.

Also, almost all of them have set a target CR of 1.75, so it's clear that these short positions are *deliberately* kept at such a low collateralization.

Fiddling with the feed price is not going to change any of this. Effectively you are trying to re-apply BSIP-42, with the same reasoning, the same justification and probably also the same outcome.

Quote from: binggo on April 14, 2019, 02:30:31 pm

If they can't find the “fair” feed price, they should be blamed as they accepted the work.

Like I said, in the presence of skewed external markets there is no such thing as *the correct price*. What you call fair may be unfair on others.

I feel you misunderstood what I mean, I do not want to "repair" the premium here, I just want the feed price reflect the right price.

it's quite easy to know the "right" price, at least when I am sure that bitCNY has premium and your feed price is far lower than DEX price definitely you are wrong.

at least we need to ensure that the feed price do not conflict with DEX price.

orders are filled every minutes, some margin call orders does not change the fact.

The reason for the premium is that (once again) shorters are deliberately keeping their positions in margin call territory, which means all orders below MSSR get eaten up by margin calls. Using the DEX price as the feed in this situation would be completely wrong, because the margin calls *define* the DEX price in terms of feed price and MSSR. There is your feedback loop.

Blaming this on the witnesses is short-sighted and unfair IMO.

I don't care what cause the premium, the fact is the premium is there.

feed price + MSSR does not define the DEX price, we have seen a lot that there is no determination relationship between these. especially for bitCNY, which has a good depth that now margin call orders will be eaten instantly while they appear.

feed price is one key part of the whole rules, if feed price does not reflect the real market price, the whole rule sets will not work well.

feed price is serving DEX trading, DEX trading has enough big real volume, it's not acceptable that the feed price conflict with DEX price.

CEX price always involve many uncertain factors， naked short selling, faked volume, USDT premium...we need to be very careful while calculate feed price from CEX price.